The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 14, 2019, 12:30 PM   #1
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
practical purpose for .38 spl guns gone....

the gun mind you, not the round.

with airweight J frames and all other revolvers made in .357 mag, what is the practical purpose of the same guns being made in .38 spl anymore? not target shooting specialty guns, but everyday carry guns. you can load any .357 with the lower powered .38 spl so why have a .38 spl version of the very same .357 magnum gun?

why the 64 when there is the 65?

why the 642 when there is the 340?

I'm not talking about the older guns that predated their magnum counterparts, I mean today, why make a .38 spl only gun?
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 12:39 PM   #2
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
I mean today, why make a .38 spl only gun?
as in the case of the LCR and LCRX the advantage is in the weight of a few ounces (because they had to go from alloy to stainless for the strength for the magnum).

My 3" LCRX which is only rate .38 +P is a featherweight and joy to carry. The .357 magnum LCR is just a tad heavier but noticeable in the pocket. Since most people mainly carry .38 and feel .38 +P is the upper limits for their recoil tolerance, the weight savings in the .38 only makes some difference in people's choices in the market place.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 01:29 PM   #3
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,614
As HighValleyRanch already mentioned, the LCR and LCRX have two different frame types. The magnum frames are a little bigger and a little heavier than the ones used for rimfire and .38 special.

Another advantage is that cleaning the chambers is a little easier. Shooting shorter cartridges in longer chambers, such as .38 special in a .357 revolver or .32 H&R Magnum in a .327 revolver, causes crud to build up against the little shoulder inside the chamber.
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 02:31 PM   #4
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,016
Why? Because shooting full house 357s from a light gun is painful and not really necessary when a 38 or even a +P will suffice.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 04:39 PM   #5
TBM900
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2015
Posts: 378
Everyone above nailed it

There are also agencies that only allow 38 Special in their officers BUGs
Too many instances of officers playing into the mindset of...

"I'll practice with 38 but carry 357"

Which in and of itself entirely idiotic
But has also contributed to officers being injured and even killed
TBM900 is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 04:41 PM   #6
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by FITASC View Post
Why? Because shooting full house 357s from a light gun is painful and not really necessary when a 38 or even a +P will suffice.
what does that have to do with my question?
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 04:44 PM   #7
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
As HighValleyRanch already mentioned, the LCR and LCRX have two different frame types. The magnum frames are a little bigger and a little heavier than the ones used for rimfire and .38 special.

Another advantage is that cleaning the chambers is a little easier. Shooting shorter cartridges in longer chambers, such as .38 special in a .357 revolver or .32 H&R Magnum in a .327 revolver, causes crud to build up against the little shoulder inside the chamber.
ok I can see how 3 Oz. can make a difference in a pocket, I think. I'm not getting it if the guns are the same size and profile though.

regarding the cleaning, I guess to me cleaning is cleaning and those wanting to use 38s will probably hardly ever use the magnums, so the ring of crud that takes another two minutes to clean won't matter.

must be just me.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 04:53 PM   #8
TBM900
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2015
Posts: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS. View Post
ok I can see how 3 Oz. can make a difference in a pocket, I think. I'm not getting it if the guns are the same size and profile though.

regarding the cleaning, I guess to me cleaning is cleaning and those wanting to use 38s will probably hardly ever use the magnums, so the ring of crud that takes another two minutes to clean won't matter.

must be just me.
It takes much longer than that
Some pistols & loads also suffer accuracy issues
TBM900 is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 04:58 PM   #9
Cosmodragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2013
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 1,614
Quote:
ok I can see how 3 Oz. can make a difference in a pocket, I think. I'm not getting it if the guns are the same size and profile though.

regarding the cleaning, I guess to me cleaning is cleaning and those wanting to use 38s will probably hardly ever use the magnums, so the ring of crud that takes another two minutes to clean won't matter.

must be just me.
It might be just you.

Seriously though, whether these are minor issues or a major convenience kind of does depend on the person. At least for me, that extra bit of crud bugs me. I almost never shoot the short cartridges in longer-chambered guns. I still have one revolver each in .38 special, .32 H&R Magnum, and .32 S&W Long for if and when I want to use those cartridges.

As far as the LCR goes, they look very similar. It's really something that you notice when you hold them side by side or switch from one to the other in a pocket holster. It's not a big enough deal for me to care though.
Cosmodragoon is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 05:11 PM   #10
44caliberkid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 274
'Cause women need 'em. Like my daughter who carries a 5 shot, alloy frame Smith.
44caliberkid is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 05:14 PM   #11
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44caliberkid View Post
'Cause women need 'em. Like my daughter who carries a 5 shot, alloy frame Smith.
what's wrong with a 340?
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 05:26 PM   #12
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,949
The reason S&W and Ruger make .38s is because that's what people want. I don't really understand why you are asking. You have evidently never fired an Airweight .38 much less a .357 that weighs 13 ounces. Sheesh...................................
pete2 is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 05:43 PM   #13
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,016
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FITASC View Post
Why? Because shooting full house 357s from a light gun is painful and not really necessary when a 38 or even a +P will suffice.
what does that have to do with my question?
The cylinder is shorter; you won't be tempted to shoot 357.

Like putting an exotic hypercar engine in a daily commuter car; simply not needed.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 05:49 PM   #14
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,950
If I was buying a snub revolver today it would be a 360J. Why would anyone shoot 357 out of those beasts? Surely no one practices enough to be proficient
__________________
A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace
though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation)
Lohman446 is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 05:57 PM   #15
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete2 View Post
The reason S&W and Ruger make .38s is because that's what people want. I don't really understand why you are asking. You have evidently never fired an Airweight .38 much less a .357 that weighs 13 ounces. Sheesh...................................
who said you have to shoot 357s in it?
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 06:04 PM   #16
2damnold4this
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
what's wrong with a 340?
The 340 is a great firearm. But its list price is $400 more than that of a 642.
2damnold4this is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 06:15 PM   #17
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2damnold4this View Post
The 340 is a great firearm. But its list price is $400 more than that of a 642.
finally, a good reason to buy the 38 version. that said, why is it so much more expensive?
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 06:18 PM   #18
LineStretcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 619
The question is valid and I understand it completely. I think the answer depends on what the owner feels confident with. In my case, I have a 442-1 that I love and I have complete confidence in the 38 Special +P. My basic criteria was it had to conceal in my front pocket without printing, no exposed hammer and it had to be DA only. The 442 in 38 Special +P is what I finally decided on and I keep it loaded with Federal Premium 38 Special (+P) 129g Hydra Shoks.

To be honest, I did consider a J Frame .357 mag but I could not find one locally that fit my criteria. If I had, I might have that instead.
LineStretcher is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 06:20 PM   #19
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,589
The alloy frame 357's cost twice the allow frame 38's. I had my ScTi 357 rebuilt 3 times before I sold it. I don't mind shooting magnums in the beast, it just would not hold up to the magnums.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 06:21 PM   #20
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by LineStretcher View Post
The question is valid and I understand it completely. I think the answer depends on what the owner feels confident with. In my case, I have a 442-1 that I love and I have complete confidence in the 38 Special +P. My basic criteria was it had to conceal in my front pocket without printing, no exposed hammer and it had to be DA only. The 442 in 38 Special +P is what I finally decided on and I keep it loaded with Federal Premium 38 Special (+P) 129g Hydra Shoks.

To be honest, I did consider a J Frame .357 mag but I could not find one locally that fit my criteria. If I had, I might have that instead.
a concealed hammer airweight J frame .357 is readily available on the open market, maybe just not in your area.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old April 14, 2019, 10:10 PM   #21
LineStretcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS. View Post
a concealed hammer airweight J frame .357 is readily available on the open market, maybe just not in your area.
Yes there is the M&P 340 in 357 with the scandium frame but no one within 50 miles of me had one.
LineStretcher is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 08:35 AM   #22
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,950
I would ask the question the other way. Is there any practical purpose for .357 snub nose revolvers weighing less than about 20 ounces? The SP101 weights in at 26+ ounces and from my experience is the absolute lightest most* people can begin to proficiently shoot .357 rounds out of with any hope for a follow up shot.

*most is probably an overstatement - even in the SP101 proficiency with .357 rounds (and I don't mean the bottom of the chart 357 rounds) seems suspect
Lohman446 is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 09:02 AM   #23
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,589
Quote:
I would ask the question the other way. Is there any practical purpose for .357 snub nose revolvers weighing less than about 20 ounces? The SP101 weights in at 26+ ounces and from my experience is the absolute lightest most* people can begin to proficiently shoot .357 rounds out of with any hope for a follow up shot.
I had an ScTi S&W 357 mag. The 360 PD, while painful to shoot it would not stand up to a steady diet of magnums. After 300 rounds it went out of time, I sent it in and they replaced the cylinder and the frame. After 100 rounds same thing, got it back and another 100 rounds...... I sent it back again..... Actually talked to an engineer, Oh... They are not designed to shoot magnums........ I sold my rebuilt revolver with full disclosure and bought another 640.

Follow up shots are not my problem. I don't worry about what any other shooter can or can't do, other than keep trying to get better.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 09:54 AM   #24
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 1,950
For the record I can find new 360J (38 special only) for under $500. Should they cost less to produce? I wouldn't think so
Lohman446 is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 10:47 AM   #25
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
The SP101 weights in at 26+ ounces and from my experience is the absolute lightest most* people can begin to proficiently shoot .357 rounds out of with any hope for a follow up shot.
Here is a youtube video showing the amount of recoil out of an 18 ounce LCR ahooting Buffalobore .357 180 grain Outdoorsman, one of the hottest commercial .357 loads on the market. Please notice the lack of fireball that so many people claim. The recoil is stout but manageable.
I'm shooting slow fire for demonstration purposes and was more tentative on the very first shot because of all the hoopla about how nasty this round was, but more in control on the second shot after I realized it was fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoB8...ature=youtu.be
================================

As a comparison, watch the amount of muzzle rise with Jeff Quinn shooting 10mm out of a very heavy Ruger Blackhawk in 10mm with a long barrel. If you check the BB website, the loads between the 10mm and the .357 are fairly comprable. HEAVY 10MM OUTDOORSMAN - 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN
(1,200 fps/ME 703 ft. lbs.) and out of my LCR, the 180 grain was 1250 fps for 625 ME


I don't find anyone posting critical comments about using a 10mm Ruger Blackhawk for woods carry because of excessive muzzle rise for followup shots!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMpb3dSv1R4
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Quinn 10mm.JPG (194.4 KB, 1961 views)
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09908 seconds with 9 queries