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Old June 10, 2017, 08:47 PM   #1
Model12Win
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Scoped Semi-Autos- PR Substitute?

After watching Hickok45 knock the gong with 1oz Fosters, I got to thinking:

Would a semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun loaded with tactical rifled slugs and equipped with a LMO (low-magnification optic) and extended tube magazine be a useful LEO option?

I'm think it could fulfill the light anti-vehicular roll like the .50 Beowulf is touted for but I would imagine 1oz hardened penetrator slugs like the Brenneke Special Forces would be even better than .50 Beo for the job. With something like an FN SLP w/ 8+1 cap and a Trijicon 1.5x or similar tactical low magnification scope or even a red dot, seems like a great lower cost option for guarding vehicle check points and disabling vehicles being used by violent criminals out to 100 meters and even beyond.

Thoughts?
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Old June 11, 2017, 02:39 AM   #2
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slugs

When the only long gun issued and authorized in the front of my career was the pump shotgun, I kept mine filled with slugs. I once humbled a cranky Supv Ranger by solidly hammering a FLETC type target at 100 yds or so with an iron sighted 870 and common Foster slugs.

A reliable semiauto auto with optic, would be more of the same.....but antivehicle.....I can about predict the result of any convenional small arm (below.50BMG) on any type of vehicle. Disable, possibly, eventually.....stop, as in quickly....not likely.
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Old June 11, 2017, 04:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Would a semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun loaded with tactical rifled slugs and equipped with a LMO (low-magnification optic) and extended tube magazine be a useful LEO option?
I don't see them being as useful as a rifle for anything beyond "less lethal" crowd control.
LEO's don't need to be shooting at vehicles to stop them.
That's for the movies.
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Old June 11, 2017, 05:12 PM   #4
Model12Win
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Tell that to operators in Afghan etc.
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Old June 11, 2017, 07:52 PM   #5
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Operators in Afghanistan aren't LEO's in the US.
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Old June 12, 2017, 02:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Tell that to operators in Afghan etc.
I'd tell them the exact same thing I said above, taken in context.

Quote:
Quote:
Would a semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun loaded with tactical rifled slugs and equipped with a LMO (low-magnification optic) and extended tube magazine be a useful LEO option?
Quote:
I don't see them being as useful as a rifle for anything beyond "less lethal" crowd control.
LEO's don't need to be shooting at vehicles to stop them.
Note that nothing I stated has anything to do with combat troops either here or on deployment in a war zone.
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Old June 12, 2017, 05:52 PM   #7
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I knew a guy who was in the Coast Guard and told me he trained for some time in drug and migrant interdiction. Apparently their main boat weapon was a Remington 870 with a rifled barrel shooting sabot slugs, to disable boat motors.

I wasn't there and I haven't been able to confirm it, but it's what I was told.
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Old June 12, 2017, 09:20 PM   #8
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They appeal to the gunshow neck-beards.
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Old June 13, 2017, 03:49 PM   #9
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Thanks, gang. I should have extended the question to include those warfighters downrange in the sandbox.
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Old June 15, 2017, 09:35 AM   #10
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I played around a bit with slugs for various reasons about a year ago. My M2 with iron sights on a 21" barrel got me 5" or so groups at 100 yards with low recoil slugs and full power slugs. At 150, the full power slugs were about 12" groups and the low recoil no longer grouped. That was a tiny bit better than my 24" stock barrel.

When I put the rifled barrel on, also with rifle sights, and shot sabots (full power) I was shooting 5" groups at 200 yards. I put a 1-4 scope on it and once I figured out the drops and such, I could hold 3 MOA out to 500 yards.

All that said, I don't want rank and file LEOs shooting at moving vehicles or tossing large heavy slugs through metropolitan areas. The only LEOs I know who still use a shotgun have it loaded with full pop slugs and are in very rural areas. The slug gun is to shoot wounded and maybe nuisance animals. Of course warfighters and their checkpoints are a different scenario and I think they have better tools than a shotgun.
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Old June 15, 2017, 11:16 AM   #11
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"...tactical rifled slugs..." There's no such thing as a tactical rifled slug.
No slug will stop any vehicle either. Even if you kill the driver, the vehicle will not stop and you'll have an uncontrolled, one ton plus, projectile. Vehicles are only stopped with small arms fire in movies where physics doesn't apply.
"...to disable boat motors..." If the shooter can hit it. A rifle bullet will do the same thing.
"...equipped with a LMO..." PD's have no budget for that kind of stuff. No need for it anyway. And an optical sight can only be sighted in for one shooter.
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Old June 15, 2017, 04:52 PM   #12
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Thanks, gang. So guess this is a resounding "no" on this. Understood!
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Old June 17, 2017, 04:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Thanks, gang. I should have extended the question to include those warfighters downrange in the sandbox
The only thing we ever used shotguns for was breaching, and that is a last resort as ballistic breaching is the least preferred method. Its like ringing the doorbell a few times before you go in to do bad things to bad people.

If you personally want to use a semi auto shotgun with slugs for stopping vehicles, have at it. The thing you have to remember is this: any additional weapons are more weight you are carrying, and a shotgun sucks if you get into a gunfight when they have rifles. We have an assortment of Benellis and Mosbergs (full length and short breacher rigs) but they rarely see the light of day, except for on someone's back in case we get a door that can't be opened with explosive methods and mechanical methods won't work for some reason. Not exactly a situation we run into a lot.

The Navy folk guarding the gate at the base I'm currently on sometimes have a really sweet looking Mossberg 500 with a 14" barrel I wouldn't mind having, just because, but they are manning a checkpoint and its loaded with buckshot, as the driver will be the target not the vehicle.
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Old June 18, 2017, 06:24 PM   #14
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The guys at the gate near me have M26s on guard and I have seen them with M500s too. Not sure if they're running buck or slugs, might even be LL.
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