The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 14, 2017, 09:53 PM   #26
TruthTellers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 2,843
^ Thanks for the input Dfariswheel, you spent a good amount of time on it.

Unlike other Kel Tec guns, I can't sit here and say for $700 Kel Tec is putting out a junk gun. $700 for a shotgun is up in the high end Mossberg 590 and Remington 870 range, so I don't expect that Kel Tec would sell it for that much, but give it a PF9 or CMR22 result. I can tell with the price tag and the fit and finish that they put the work into the KSG.

Others will bemoan that "it aint got no wood on it... BARF!" or "dat's a lotta plastic" but they're the type that would take a flintlock over a Glock in a gun fight.

My only experience with a Kel Tec has been a Gen 1 Sub 2000 and it's been fine. I've heard things said that when it comes to Kel Tec, their handguns are hit or miss, but their long guns are generally solid. I have no question that the KSG is quality, but the 500/590 and 870 shotguns have decades of rough use under their designs.

The one thing the KSG has is it's as small a shotgun one can get that isn't NFA registered and won't be a problem crossing state lines with.
__________________
Any good revolver > Any good semi auto

"We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."
TruthTellers is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 02:32 PM   #27
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,143
Quote:
The one thing the KSG has is it's as small a shotgun one can get that isn't NFA registered and won't be a problem crossing state lines with.
That might be a problem (crossing state lines) depending on which state lines you mean.............
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 02:44 PM   #28
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,143
Of course, if Kel-Tec quality has you concerned, there is this one:
http://www.stdgun.com/dp-12-double-barrel-pump-shotgun/



Quote:
The first of its kind, a premium defense, double barreled, pump, 12 gauge shotgun that quickly fires 16 rounds.............
Specifications and Features:
* 12 Gauge
* Fires 2 3/4 or 3" shells
* Two 18 7/8" barrels
* 29.5" overall length
* Unloaded weight is 9 pounds 12 ounces
* 16 Round capacity, 14 rounds in the magazines and two rounds in the chamber
* Two shots with each pump
* Single trigger
* Machined from aircraft grade 7075 aluminum
* Thermal coated receiver
* Inline feeding
* Ambidextrous safety
* Ambidextrous pump slide release
* Two Picatinny rails for accessories; seven slot rail on the bottom by the foregrip and a 13.75" 34 slot rail on top
* Co-Molded non-slip rubber grip
* Slots to attach MOE rails
* Shell indicator window
* Shock absorbing spring loaded recoil mechanism
* Synthetic stock
* Rubber recoil pad with dual spring loaded recoil
* Both barrels include spreader choke tubes with Tru-Choke thread pattern
* Choke tube wrench
* Heavy duty lock
* Instruction booklet and warranty card
* Composite foregrip
* Front sling attachment
* Sling swivel attachment on stock
* Erogonomically designed to balance the weight of a loaded gun for quick and efficient handling with minimal recoil
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 06:16 PM   #29
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,238
The DP-12 also has a range of opinions on it on quality and reliability.
It's heavy and expensive, much more so then the KSG.
As I said, there's some sort of connection between the Kel-Tec and the DP-12.
Both share some similar features, a few parts, and owner's manuals that use much of the exact same wording.

One strong feature of the KSG is that Kel-Tec actually found an answer to the usual bullpup gun's trigger issues.
Most Bullpup firearms put the sear and other trigger action parts at the rear of the gun, with the grip and actual trigger up at the balance point.
These have a long trigger bar to connect to the sear at the rear of the receiver, which gives an unavoidably poor, mushy trigger with lots of trigger take up and creep.

Kel-Tec designed the KSG to have the entire trigger and sear assembly up in the grip section with only the actual hammer itself at the rear.
This gives a much better trigger then most bullpup designs.
There is a small amount of take up and some gritty creep, but the grittiness seems to wear in after some use.
In any case, while rifle bullpup users would probably complain about the KSG trigger, it's no issue at all in a combat shotgun like the KSG.

One factor about the KSG, DP-12 and other similar shotguns is that "short is in" and that looks like the direction that new defense shotguns are going to go.
For over 100 years a combat shotgun has been nothing much more then a standard sporting shotgun with a short barrel and some add-on features like a barrel shroud.

Guns like the South African bullpup shotgun designs and now the KSG and DP-12 have redefined what's possible in a combat/defense shotgun.
It's hard for a standard length shotgun to match the 26 inch KSG unless you remove the stock and install a pistol grip.
That reduces the effective speed of use due to no stock to brace with.
The bullpup gives the advantages of a very short length and a buttstock with the effectiveness of a full size gun.
In an attempt to stay current, both Mossberg and Remington are releasing BATF-beating 14 inch barreled shotguns that are basically copies of the Remington 870 US Marshal Witness Protection shotguns.
However, they're still nothing more then a pistol grip-only shotgun, just with a shorter then normal barrel.

An added push for these bullpup types of guns is the obvious quality and thought that went into the KSG.
I also have heard a lot of complaints about Kel-Tec pistols so I never bothered to look at one.
Whatever the lack of quality in their pistols, the same issues are not present in the current KSG.
It feels like a very solid gun and it is.

For those who like the idea of a bullpup shotgun but not the price, there's a kit that converts a standard Mossberg or Remington 870 to a bullpup.
This puts you into a bullpup gun at a much lower price if you already have a 870 or Mossberg handy.
This requires no alteration at all to the gun so it can be converted back at will.
The only problem I see with the conversion kit is that in order to do a good cleaning of the gun you have to pretty well totally disassemble the entire conversion.
Since the nuts that the assembly screws screw into are molded into the stock, a stripped nut might be a real issue.

Some buyers of the conversion say that it benefits greatly by light sanding of mold joints to remove "flash".
I almost bought the kit instead of the KSG, but decided to go with the KSG.
I did and do very much like the idea of a standard 870 pump gun's reliability and fail proof feeding in a bullpup configuration.

https://www.bullpuparmory.com/BU870_..._p/bpu-870.htm
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 06:40 PM   #30
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,542
Kel-Tec fluff and buff

I bought a Kel-Tec P11 as a more compact alternative to my Glock 19.

That was an error in judgement as it does not carry any better than my G19. It is smaller, but just about as thick. For IWB carry the thickness made it no better than the Glock comfort wise.

Not trying to drift the thread, just commenting on the necessity of doing a fluff and buff on a new Kel-tec. Mine was slightly used, I suspect the original purchaser was not ready for full house 9mm recoil in a pocket pistol. The fact that it jammed every 3rd round or so prompted it's return to the fun store.

I got it cheap, and discovered it's finicky habits at the first trip to the range. Found a good article on the web about doing the Kel-Tec fluff and buff and did the deed in a couple hours. Yes i used a Dremel but only to polish the feed ramp.

The little Kel-Tec has been flawless since. Good enough I sold it to my son for his nightstand gun, only because it did not fit my intended purpose.It helped fund one of the jewels of my accumulation, my 1918 LC Smith SBT. It is the 2nd oldest SBT known to the LC Smith.org folks. Gorgeous gun and still smashes the targets. How's that for coming back from thread drift?
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free

Last edited by Ricklin; May 15, 2017 at 06:45 PM. Reason: addition
Ricklin is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.05999 seconds with 9 queries