The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 4, 2016, 05:57 PM   #1
Kvon2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2016
Posts: 758
Are pistol grip shotguns really that terrible?

From my research (Google) there seem to be very few people that actually like pistol grip shotguns. I am talking no stock just the pistol grip.

I understand not wanting to shoot heavier loads out of it but I am looking at some combo kits that come with an interchangeable stock and pistol grip. I think the options are pretty cool and versatile but there seem to be a lot of folks out there against it.

Any experiences good or bad?
Kvon2 is offline  
Old September 4, 2016, 06:48 PM   #2
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,575
I have heard of injuries with those shotguns . Good formovies but not for real shooting !
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old September 4, 2016, 07:15 PM   #3
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,014
I bought one way back before the interweb.........three shots later, a full regular stock went on.

Your wrist will thank you and your ortho surgeon will be mad at you
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old September 4, 2016, 07:23 PM   #4
Kvon2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2016
Posts: 758
The orthopedist is an interesting point, I have broken my right thumb twice so that may not be great
Kvon2 is offline  
Old September 4, 2016, 07:35 PM   #5
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,014
I was using basic birdshot; I won't even pretend to imagine what a hot load of buckshot will do to your wrist - and I don't want to
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old September 4, 2016, 08:31 PM   #6
USMCGrunt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Somewhere in 14T NT
Posts: 728
I can't speak for a PGO shotgun but I can speak for the Remington LEO top-folding stock. The folding stock is not really much (if any) longer than a PGO version and you can shoot it in the same manner if you choose. I have. Looks Hollyweird cool I suppose but not very effective. I don't mind the stock being folded for storage or transport but for actual shooting, I will extend it every time. Bottom line, for shooting PGO shotguns leave a lot to be desired and you are FAR better off with a buttstock version.
USMCGrunt is offline  
Old September 4, 2016, 09:39 PM   #7
Old Bill Dibble
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2016
Posts: 802
I have tried PGOs and they pretty much suck for most uses. The only place I find them of any use is in very tight quarters for up close increased fire power over a pistol. They don't hurt my wrist but accuracy is abysmal past ten yards. They are also slower to operate than a full stock model.
Old Bill Dibble is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 07:12 AM   #8
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,492
Old Bill, I just do not see your reasoning.

You have a 8 shot corn shucker, OK it will throw a lot of lead, but after those 8 shots you are still facing a 16 shot 9mm and the BG has a extra magazine!
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 08:32 AM   #9
dgludwig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 7,034
QUOTE: "...The only place I find them of any use is in very tight quarters for up close increased fire power..."

Which is why they make for such good quail guns.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED
...Aristotle
NRA Benefactor Life Member
dgludwig is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 09:30 AM   #10
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 10,447
Just for fun a fellow tried one at the shotgun steel matches once.
And I do meant once.
He came in last place and some of his body parts hurt, too, along with his feelings.
If you want a short and handy shotgun, there's other useful ways, within legal limits, of course.
__________________
Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez:
“Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”
g.willikers is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 10:18 AM   #11
Indawind
Member
 
Join Date: May 14, 2016
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 55
The PGO shotgun seems to have a pretty small niche they fill, one that I haven't seen a need to spend money on to fill personally. From the few that I have played with I have to say changing it to a bird's head grip makes it much more pleasant to shoot.

With a bit of Googlefoo you can see that a true factory PGO and the correct bird's head grip can take it into a non-nfa item with a very short barrel if what you are looking for.
Indawind is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 10:29 AM   #12
fshfindr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 187
I have a 20 gauge 18" pistol grip shotgun. I fire a few rounds every year at the range. It sleeps very close to me in bed and I consider it to be the best possible home defense weapon.
__________________
Richard L.
fshfindr is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 11:07 AM   #13
Boogershooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2014
Posts: 645
I bought the mossberg maverick back in the late 90's at Walmart for $188.88. It was cheap and cool looking. The PG on it really sucks. After a few years hogue made a grip to fit it. Very soft on the hand and with the finger grooves it was definitely alot better than the original. The only time I've had my wrist hurt is from holding the gun too low, down around the hips with your grip hand basically at your pocket. If I push the gun forward a little more and get my wrist infront of my body and not even with it then the recoil isn't bad. From watching my friends shoot it with 3 inch mag shells, I've seen it come out of their front hand.
This gun has,a cylinder bore and I keep it loaded with low brass game loads. IMHO it's made for very close quarters when a person may not be comfortable in his ability with a pistol. There are many reasons it's not a great gun for self defense but it is the first thing I grab if I think someone is already in my home. If they are in the yard I would prefer a buttstock and buckshot.
Boogershooter is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 11:40 AM   #14
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 5,014
Quote:
I have a 20 gauge 18" pistol grip shotgun.
Are you meaning a pistol-grip only, or the regular stock that has an AR-style of grip?

I imagine in NJ, with their draconian handgun laws, a shotgun is much more practical and available.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 12:25 PM   #15
TxGun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Family ranch - Central TX.
Posts: 467
No, they (PGO) absolutely aren't that bad, even with buckshot. Any grown man without a physical limitation should be able to handle one easily in terms of recoil. We have our own range here and we do have 1 12 gauge PGO shotgun on the place, really just for the novelty of it. Fooling around with it, I've shot 4-5 boxes of buckshot (20-25 rounds) at a time with zero issues. With birdshot, even shooting at full arms-length (just for the hell of it, of course) isn't a problem. None of this is 'macho', it's simply what most could do. BTW, practice and you can definitely shoot one pretty accurately...especially at the short ranges it was meant for.

That said, I much prefer a tradionally stocked gun. A PGO gun could, potentially, fill a narrow niche for some people. But versatile they are not.

Last edited by TxGun; September 5, 2016 at 05:35 PM.
TxGun is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 04:26 PM   #16
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 5,087
pgo

There are two major problems with Pgos that outweigh the coolness.
One - as a self defense gun--- at short range. They have to be aimed... and they are not easy to aim effectively.
Two - in conjunction with the first point, like any shotgun, the pattern is small enough indoors that one can easily miss the target.
Pete
__________________
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ...
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 05:04 PM   #17
TxGun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Family ranch - Central TX.
Posts: 467
This Hickok45 review is pertinent to your question, and entertaining at the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUHAEvbf_I4

Last edited by TxGun; September 5, 2016 at 09:48 PM.
TxGun is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 07:22 PM   #18
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,796
I used to be a guy that hated the idea of a pistol grip shotgun. I preferred the look of traditional stock styles and I figured anyone who owned one was a mall ninja, armchair commando, grocery store operator. well when it came time to buy my first shotgun I was shopping around town and the only good deal I could find was a second hand mossberg 535 with, you guessed it, a pistol grip and a telescoping stock to boot. well it was camo dipped which made it appealing as a turkey gun, it could take 3.5 inch shells and since I wasn't very good with bead sights at the time, the fiber optic leaf sights on it seemed like a good idea.

now I love that shotgun to death. it's the perfect turkey rifle and I've got a turkey every spring for the last 3 years with it. it points very naturally, and is ergonomically great for me. I would love to try it out for trap shooting but first I need to get a replacement for the XXfull choke, it's awesome for nailing turkeys at 25+ yards, not so great for trying to hit clay pigeons.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 07:23 PM   #19
Old Bill Dibble
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2016
Posts: 802
Quote:
Old Bill, I just do not see your reasoning.

You have a 8 shot corn shucker, OK it will throw a lot of lead, but after those 8 shots you are still facing a 16 shot 9mm and the BG has a extra magazine!
I am thinking that a couple of 12GA slugs at close range are going to be a much more effective show stopper than just about any pistol on the market. I don't want to be in a long gun fight, one that ends quickly in my favor is much better.
Old Bill Dibble is offline  
Old September 5, 2016, 11:11 PM   #20
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 2,724
They have their place. I usually shoot mine from the hip. For close range, it works. For longer distances, it has a green laser and that helps a great deal. Even with 12 ga slugs, it is not difficult to control. I do have a birdshead pistol grip instead of a traditional pistol grip. That helps control the recoil big time.
__________________
AI + Quantum Computing = Human Extinction Event
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old September 6, 2016, 01:32 PM   #21
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 2,409
Quote:
Old Bill Dibble I have tried PGOs and they pretty much suck for most uses. The only place I find them of any use is in very tight quarters for up close increased fire power over a pistol. They don't hurt my wrist but accuracy is abysmal past ten yards. They are also slower to operate than a full stock model.
Quote:
jaguarxk120 Old Bill, I just do not see your reasoning.

You have a 8 shot corn shucker, OK it will throw a lot of lead, but after those 8 shots you are still facing a 16 shot 9mm and the BG has a extra magazine!
Wait.......how do you know what "BG" Old Bill Dibble is facing?
How do you know the BG is armed with a 16 shot 9mm? Has a extra mag?

What if the BG is armed with a Hi Point C9...one of the most common firearms recovered by police? (It's an eight shot pistol)

And most importantly, how do you know OBD isn't packing a sidearm as well?
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
dogtown tom is offline  
Old September 6, 2016, 04:09 PM   #22
Old Bill Dibble
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2016
Posts: 802
I can assure you I absolutely would be packing a pistol. It is tough to beat a shotgun for an opening salvo though. Everyone tends to notice it right away too. when people see a cop running down the street they may not get out of the way. They see a cop running down the street with a shotgun and the calculus changes a bit.

I don't own a PGO, have not since 1996. For work I have an SBS 870. I'd 1000X rather have that than a PGO. Part of the problem is that I have a very minor disability that prevents me from fully extending my arms. I can still shoot 100s at the range in any weapon I am assigned or have but certain weapons (such as a PGO) are tougher to operate so I avoid them.

Practically every handgun I have ever recovered from a criminal has been junk. Many were not operational most only had two or three rounds in them. Still enough to kill you. I think the nicest gun I ever recovered on the street was a Glock 19. It was fully loaded and the guy had whole extra box of ammo (but no mag).

I don't work in a big city. I imagine people working in the big cities see much nicer hardware regularly.
Old Bill Dibble is offline  
Old September 6, 2016, 05:43 PM   #23
SPEMack618
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2010
Location: Central Georgia
Posts: 1,841
The only reason to use a PGO, in my opinion, is that a short barreled PGO shotgun is super easy to carry it on the back of your armor loaded with breaching rounds.

We sometimes did that whilst deployed but more often than not carried a Mossberg M-590 with breaching rounds, bean bags, and plenty of buckshot.
__________________
NRA Life Member
Read my blog!
"The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"
SPEMack618 is offline  
Old September 6, 2016, 06:50 PM   #24
amd6547
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,189
I've done a lot of shooting with PGO shotguns, mainly a Mossberg 500. Tried several different pistol grips...OEM, Choate, Pachmayr rubber. Finally arrived at the Birdshead grip, which is a whole 'nother ball game, and very usable.
Out to 25yds, I have no problem putting a slug or load of buckshot on a torso target.
In fact, my pal also had a PGO Mossberg, and we used to have 25yd shooting matches...Great fun!
I got a lot of flak here and on THR for saying I liked them. For a long time, my Mossberg 500 was set up that way.
Last year, still going for shortest legal barrel + overall length, I tried a 12" LOP Hogue stock, and found it fits my needs very well...that's how my shotgun sits right now.
Funny, the "experts" at THR still disagree...12" is too short, it needs to fit you, they say.
Well, I'm about 6" and have no problem running it at CQB distances, and 25yds is a breeze.
I will add that when I was shooting it PGO, all I shot was full power buck and slug. I believe the low recoil loads available now would make it even easier to shoot.
The PGO takes some technique, but it is doable, especially at HD distances.
__________________
The past is gone...the future may never happen.
Be Here Now.
amd6547 is offline  
Old September 6, 2016, 07:47 PM   #25
Kvon2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2016
Posts: 758
The good news is I found out today a co-worker owns one so I can try before I buy.

If I like it then I'll have to go down the 500 vs 870 path
Kvon2 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12732 seconds with 8 queries