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Old August 4, 2016, 12:06 PM   #1
Bill Akins
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Is there an extended bolt handle for a Remington model 11 and the Browning auto five?

I have both Remington model 11's and a Browning auto five. The bolt handle is way too short on both in my opinion and my finger slips off it easily and I'd like to replace them with an extended one.
Is anyone aware of any extended bolt handles available for the Remington model 11 and Browning auto five 12 gauge shotguns? If so, please let me know. I'd appreciate it.
Otherwise I may have to try and fab them up on my own and I'd rather just buy them already made.
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"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old August 4, 2016, 01:16 PM   #2
T. O'Heir
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Not likely any aftermarket stuff like that. Certainly not for a Rem M11. None made since 1949. Not a lot of aftermarket stuff for Auto-5's, if there's any at all.
However, I've seen Sterling SMG op handles fitted onto .22's. So retrofitting something to a shotgun won't be terribly difficult.
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Old August 4, 2016, 01:58 PM   #3
Bill Akins
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I know what you're saying T. O'Heir. However I do have an aftermarket Bell and Carlson synthetic stock on my 1940 Belgium Browning auto five. So at least one company thought it viably profitable enough to make an aftermarket synthetic stock for the Browning auto five. But you're right otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a lot of aftermarket stuff for the Browning auto five and NONE for the Remy model 11. At least none I could find, hence my query here.

And you know, I don't understand that. There were a lot of Remy model 11's sold that are still out there operating (with cracked and fixed cracks wood stocks) as well as the almost identical Browning auto five. With all of them made one would think there would be at least a FEW aftermarket accessories for them, especially an extended bolt handle wouldn't one? After all, if the shortness of the Remy M11 and Browning auto five op handle bothers me, it must have bothered others through the decades too.

I haven't been able to find ANY synthetic aftermarket stocks to fit the Remy M11 shotgun. The only way I know it can be done is since the Remy M11's lower tang sticks down a little further than the Browning auto five, is to heat the Remy M11's lower tang and gently bend it upward to where it mimics the Browning auto five's lower tang position. Then you can use a synthetic stock made for the Browning auto five. (The fore end stock of the auto five will fit the Remy fine though with no alterations). But heating the lower tang of an antique Remy M11 and bending it is not something most people would do nor want to do with their antique shotgun. I've read articles of people who did it successfully but I still wouldn't do it myself.

But for all the Remy M11's and Browning auto fives made and that are still in use, it puzzles me why there aren't more aftermarket items available for them. I would think there would be a market demographic for them. Heck, I just bought a walnut Boyds aftermarket butt stock for my Browning/Stevens model 35 which is the same as the Stevens model 520 that is just as old as the Browning auto five's and Remy M11's. If someone were to make aftermarket parts for the Browning and Remy, even in this depressed firearms market I think they would sell well since there are so many of them out there still.


.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; August 4, 2016 at 02:10 PM.
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Old August 4, 2016, 02:21 PM   #4
Blindstitch
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You're probably looking at a gunsmithing project.

The 11 sells a stock handle for $50 so I could see maybe lopping the finger area off and drilling and tapping for a light bolt handle.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1408120A.htm
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Old August 5, 2016, 07:10 AM   #5
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John Browning who designed the A5 and Remington bought the rights to make the A5 as the Model 11 was the worlds greatest gun designer.

You will be hard pressed finding someone to rework that great gun design.

May be Bubba can cobble something that looks like a operating handle, but when you get tired of that gun you will be hard pressed finding a buyer.
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Old August 5, 2016, 01:39 PM   #6
johnwilliamson062
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The bolt handles are easily removable and need no fitting, right? I'd get an extra stock part from somewhere and use some sort of epoxy to form an extension. Something like JB weld. If you sand the JB weld it will hold paint. It won't be the prettiest, but...

IMO, the small handles are a real failing in most shotgun designs. Putting an enlarged "combat" handle on my 11-87 was some of the best money I ever spent on a firearm. Whether hunting in the field, shooting clays, or pounding the berm with buckshot, it always seemed much more ergonomic than the stock handle.

Entirely reversible, easy to modify further, and cheap to try. If to find something yo like you can always have someone fabricate one from steel later.
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Old August 5, 2016, 02:15 PM   #7
Bill Akins
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Quote:
jaguarxk120 wrote:

John Browning who designed the A5 and Remington bought the rights to make the A5 as the Model 11 was the worlds greatest gun designer.

You will be hard pressed finding someone to rework that great gun design.

May be Bubba can cobble something that looks like a operating handle, but when you get tired of that gun you will be hard pressed finding a buyer.
I agree with your first sentence Jaguarxk120, in my opinion he was one of the worlds greatest gun designers. However, since the bolt handle is easily removable and like another poster said "entirely reversible" I would not be asking for someone to "rework" his auto five nor Remy M11 design but simply to create a longer op handle, that's all. Also not everyone who does modifications to improve their guns is a "Bubba", otherwise every firearms accessory that did not come from the factory could be called a "rework of a design" or a "Bubba abortion". Sure Bubba can do a lot of damage to a firearm, but buying a removable bolt handle, cutting off its too short finger grip area and welding on a longer extension, filing the weld smooth and improving the grip area of the op handle is not doing a "Bubba" to the gun since if it came out bad, it is easily reversed by putting the original op handle back on the gun. So no harm done. As for being "hard pressed" to find a buyer for the auto five with the extended bolt handle,... I think a potential buyer would appreciate a modification like that (I certainly would), and if they didn't, well then just include the original bolt handle in the sale. Problem solved.


.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old August 5, 2016, 02:31 PM   #8
Bill Akins
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Quote:
johnwilliamson062 wrote:
The bolt handles are easily removable and need no fitting, right? I'd get an extra stock part from somewhere and use some sort of epoxy to form an extension. Something like JB weld. If you sand the JB weld it will hold paint. It won't be the prettiest, but...

IMO, the small handles are a real failing in most shotgun designs. Putting an enlarged "combat" handle on my 11-87 was some of the best money I ever spent on a firearm. Whether hunting in the field, shooting clays, or pounding the berm with buckshot, it always seemed much more ergonomic than the stock handle.

Entirely reversible, easy to modify further, and cheap to try. If you find something you like you can always have someone fabricate one from steel later.
Exactly correct John. But I wouldn't use JB weld. It's not strong enough. I tried using it before just to hold a half moon front sight on a shortened barrel S&W 1917 and when I fired the revolver the sight fell right off. Instead I'd mig weld an extended bolt handle on as that 1917 front sight had to be welded. And that front sight really didn't have any stress of movement other than the microscopic expansion of the barrel under the sight as the projectile passed under it, but that was enough to crack the JB weld and make the sight fall off on the very first shot after JB epoxying it. With the reciprocating bolt handle on the Remy M11 or Browning auto five flying back and forth, I don't imagine JB weld epoxy would hold up very long if at all without failing. Best to mig or tig steel weld it. Then no worries of it coming off.

Quote:
Blindstitch wrote:
You're probably looking at a gunsmithing project.

The 11 sells a stock handle for $50 so I could see maybe lopping the finger area off and drilling and tapping for a light bolt handle.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1408120A.htm
Since I can't find an extended op handle already made, it looks like you're right Blindstitch, I'll probably have to make it for myself. I think the best thing to do is to buy another op handle and keep the original as it is. Then cut off the op handle grip area and instead of drilling and tapping it for a screw in extended handle, fab the handle area and just weld it to the flush area where I cut the old op handle off. Doing that is a time suck and I was just hoping against hope that someone here would know of one already made I could just buy. But it looks like they don't exist. At least I can't find any. So it looks like I'll have to make my own when I get the time.



.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; August 5, 2016 at 02:46 PM.
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Old August 6, 2016, 09:46 PM   #9
johnwilliamson062
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$50 seems steep. I would be tempted to try and cast a copy of the original.

3960 PSI. If that isn't getting the job done...
In my experience it needs to make a mechanical bond. The chemical bond is not strong and any sort of grease/oil will stop it entirely. I think it was really designed to patch porous automotive castings. A front sight application might not offer much for a mechanical bond.

To be clear, I would suggest cutting down your replacement factory part only enough to remove any extra material you do not want on the final product. I would then drill several small holes in the end and rough up the end with the coarsest available file or abrasive. Making something of a stub with plenty of texture to form a mechanical bond. Not a bad idea to apply a de-greaser. I would then form your new handle on the end using JB weld as the material. Not to attach a piece of steel to the bolt with JB weld as an adhesive. try to mold/form it as best you can when you make it being certain there is sufficient material, then go back and shape it once it sets with a file/dremel/etc. Much easier to add or reduce material than welded steel. I would expect the stub end to take most of the strain.
I jut know I would go through several designs before I was happy and JB weld would be easier to adjust. Once happy I could cast a metal part if I wanted to do so. Make a few copies and see if I could sell them.
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Old August 7, 2016, 09:30 AM   #10
FITASC
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Will this work?
http://www.briley.com/p-56886-briley...roduction.aspx
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Old August 7, 2016, 06:02 PM   #11
Bill Akins
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Quote:
johnwilliamson062

$50 seems steep. I would be tempted to try and cast a copy of the original.

3960 PSI. If that isn't getting the job done...
In my experience it needs to make a mechanical bond. The chemical bond is not strong and any sort of grease/oil will stop it entirely. I think it was really designed to patch porous automotive castings. A front sight application might not offer much for a mechanical bond.

To be clear, I would suggest cutting down your replacement factory part only enough to remove any extra material you do not want on the final product. I would then drill several small holes in the end and rough up the end with the coarsest available file or abrasive. Making something of a stub with plenty of texture to form a mechanical bond. Not a bad idea to apply a de-greaser. I would then form your new handle on the end using JB weld as the material. Not to attach a piece of steel to the bolt with JB weld as an adhesive. try to mold/form it as best you can when you make it being certain there is sufficient material, then go back and shape it once it sets with a file/dremel/etc. Much easier to add or reduce material than welded steel. I would expect the stub end to take most of the strain.
I jut know I would go through several designs before I was happy and JB weld would be easier to adjust. Once happy I could cast a metal part if I wanted to do so. Make a few copies and see if I could sell them.
John I have no doubt what you described would work, but it seems like a lot to go through and I have no equipment for casting a bolt handle. I think the best thing is to find a bolt handle shape I like, buy it, then buy another factory bolt handle (keeping my old one unmodified) and then cut off some of the factory bolt handle I just bought and cut off whatever I don't need off the bolt handle I bought that I eventually want to end up with, and weld them together. That's more viable for me to do than to cast one since I have no casting equipment.



.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old August 7, 2016, 06:12 PM   #12
Bill Akins
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I saw that on my search for auto five bolt handles FITASC. But unfortunately no, it won't work because that's for the new Browning A5 that has the inertia bolt like the Benelli does and except for having a humpback receiver, has nothing much in common with the ORIGINAL Browning auto five. It does get a bit confusing when looking for parts because they ill advisedly call their modern newer design the Browning "A5" which is what a lot of people will confuse with the original auto five. I think they re-used the name "A5" to gin up sales interest and piggyback on the name and good reputation of the old auto five. But as we see it's causing confusion when looking for parts and we see a part for a Browning A5 that has nothing whatsoever to do with the original Browning AUTO five. So good marketing for them, but confusing to people buying parts.


.
__________________
"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old August 8, 2016, 09:31 PM   #13
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May I suggest....

A loop of para-cord that allows three finger to lie within as then catches the little finger lever , allowing you to retract the bolt to the rear.

Works on my 12MAG A5 when the scope mount is in-place and SAVES my knuckles.
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Old August 10, 2016, 02:01 AM   #14
Bill Akins
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Quote:
jrothWA
May I suggest....
A loop of para-cord that allows three finger to lie within as then catches the little finger lever , allowing you to retract the bolt to the rear.
Works on my 12MAG A5 when the scope mount is in-place and SAVES my knuckles.
Or I could use a coat hanger, or a fishing hook with mono filament loop, or a block of wood, or even a looped shoestring. Oh wait! Not a shoestring! The ATF might think my shotgun was a machine gun! Lol.

But seriously jrothWA, thanks for the tip and no doubt it works for you, but not exactly what I had in mind and with my luck, the para-cord would slip off the bolt handle, plus that would just be something else for me to carry around and lose and digging it out of my pocket, looping it around the bolt handle, is not something I'd want to be doing in a home defense situation when seconds mattered nor really any time. I want it attached to the gun. I'm able to use the factory bolt handle as is, but I just don't like how short it is and how easy it is for my finger to slip off it. I'd like a bolt handle like the op rod handle on my M1A. That would be nice.

I'm swamped right now with other projects, but since it appears there are no aftermarket extended bolt handles for the Browning auto five or Remy M11, when I do get time, it looks like I'm going to have to make it myself out of another factory op handle welded to an extension. (I was hoping there might be some out there to save me the time but it looks like no dice). Plenty of bolt handles out there, just have to find one I like and that will match up the best for welding to a cut down factory handle (I'd keep my original bolt handle unmodified just in case). But again, thanks for the tip, I appreciate it.


.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; August 10, 2016 at 02:12 AM.
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Old August 10, 2016, 07:06 AM   #15
amd6547
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Or, you could just learn to live with it...
I did a lot of shooting with two Model 11 riot guns, and never had an issue with the bolt handle.
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Old August 10, 2016, 09:57 PM   #16
johnwilliamson062
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Quote:
Or, you could just learn to live with it...
Un-American.

The 11-87 handle I went with.:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/575...-87-steel-blue

Probably my favorite thing about that gun. I'm not sure it would be all that great for real tacticool deployment because it was sort of big and the loop just looks like a good place to catch something. Boy was it comfortable shooting trap though.
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