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Old May 11, 2017, 06:47 PM   #1
oldscot3
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why so cheap?

This morning, lying on my FIL's front door welcome mat, was a large venomous snake. It was dispatched but I started thinking about shotguns right away.

My first thought was a Stoeger coach SxS, for $500.00, but then I saw a Mossberg pump on Bud's site for $270.00. What's the deal there I wonder? That sounds too cheap; other models with only small differences (like heat shield, or sights) ran from about $400.00 all the way to over $700.00.
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Old May 11, 2017, 07:04 PM   #2
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Maverick by Mossberg are about $188 @ wally world
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Old May 11, 2017, 07:33 PM   #3
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With a little further research, I learned that some were m500s and some 590s. Apparently, 590s have barrels with heavier walls, better extractors, high cap mag s, etc., etc.

That's all part of it I guess, apparently the m500s just aren't as heavy duty.

edit: apparently only the 590a1 has a heavy wall barrel. It also has a alloy trigger guard and safety, other than that it's the same (I think) as a 590.

Last edited by oldscot3; May 11, 2017 at 10:24 PM.
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Old May 11, 2017, 08:12 PM   #4
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They have been around for quite some time.
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Old May 11, 2017, 08:57 PM   #5
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It's one of the most popular shotguns around. Its economy of scale makes it cheap to produce.



As for cheapies...

Rossi offers the ST-12. It's usually priced between $160-180. On sale, it can be found for under $150.
(For a very short time, there were 20 ga and .410 bore variants, as well. [I was actually after the .410 at ~$175, when I bought the 12 ga.] But I haven't seen one since last November and all information on the interwebs has vanished.)

When I saw one of the ST-12s at $149 through Classic Firearms last year, I just couldn't resist. I had to know if a $150 import shotgun could be worthwhile. And, well, I had nothing else I'd be willing to shoot steel shot through.
It works.
I've had no issues.
And I see no design issues that are certain to lead to premature failure.
To add insult to injury, it had better fit and finish and functioned smoother than the last five brand-new Remington 870s that I've handled.

By no means is it a "good" shotgun. But it certainly appears to be good enough.
It lives next to my beloved 12 ga Winchesters and the father-less-child Savage/Stevens 20 ga.
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Old May 11, 2017, 09:27 PM   #6
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I don't know how well Mossberg makes their shotguns these days. I have an older Model 500 ATP. The "A" in the acronym stands for 12 Gauge, the TP stands for tactical police. It was in its former life a Alabama State Trooper firearm. It certainly is not lacking as far as being heavy duty.

I think most of the modern era 12 gauges will handle at least 3" shells. I would think this would be more than adequate for 2 3/4" loads.
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Old May 11, 2017, 10:36 PM   #7
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Well, I'm learning a lot. I haven't bought a shotgun in years; just used a couple of old shotguns that were my dad's.

I want a short, handy shotgun for closeup varmints. It surprises me that I can buy a good Mossberg pump so much cheaper than a Stoeger coach gun.
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Old May 11, 2017, 10:54 PM   #8
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Side by sides are expensive to make. The Stoegers are a budget side by side to be sure, and they shoot and wear accordingly.

You are much better off with a Mossberg Maverick and pocketing the cash for shells or something else.
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Old May 12, 2017, 06:44 AM   #9
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my FIL keeps a old .410 single shot H&R(paid 50.00) at camp to kill copperheads and rattlers that get to close to the camp. i bought a few boxs of .410 two and a half inch shells with#7.5 shot for him and its more than match for any snake around here. eastbank,
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Old May 12, 2017, 07:31 AM   #10
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Look on GunBroker, there are a couple of Stevens 12 gauge pumps with 19" barrels (law enforcement trade-in) starting bid at $95.00. That is all anyone will need for defensive purposes. If you can point it, the threat is gone.

I have bought from Buds before and they are fine folks to buy from with good prices and quick turn around. They also have FFL's on file for most areas. They can ship right away to one of those and all you have to do is go fill out the form and pick-up the firearm.
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Old May 12, 2017, 07:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
With a little further research, I learned that some were m500s and some 590s. Apparently, 590s have barrels with heavier walls, better extractors, high cap mag s, etc., etc.

That's all part of it I guess, apparently the m500s just aren't as heavy duty.
Don't make the mistake of confusing some of the 590's "features" as any indication of extra "quality" or longevity. The M500 is plenty robust enough for many thousands of rounds.
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Old May 12, 2017, 07:54 AM   #12
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I run a 12ga Savage 320 that I paid nothing more than $200 for, NIB a couple years ago. It's been a great scatter gun that I definitely trust. It's lacking in aftermarket accessories, but it works as advertised, no doubt.

I've heard the Maverick 88's are great budget guns too.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk
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Old May 12, 2017, 08:38 AM   #13
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Here's the latest.. my son has two Remington 870s. One is an old one he got from his grandpa, the other a Special Purpose turkey gun. I could buy an 18" barrel from Midway for $139.00 and he would let me put it on either one of them.

BTW, aside from snakes like the big fellow that was napping on my FIL's doorstep yesterday, I want my shotgun to be ready for skunks, possums, porcupines, coyotes and the occasional calf chasing or chicken killing dogs that come through. I'm thinking 3" BB will always be nearby this gun.

Last edited by oldscot3; May 12, 2017 at 09:05 AM.
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Old May 12, 2017, 09:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
I'm thinking 3" BB will always be nearby this gun
Lots of excess cost and recoil for most of the work you've described. For anything except the big canines you mentioned, plain old Walmart #7 1/2 target loads would be gracious plenty.
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Old May 12, 2017, 09:57 AM   #15
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Don't make the mistake of confusing some of the 590's "features" as any indication of extra "quality" or longevity. The M500 is plenty robust enough for many thousands of rounds.
Not so. The M590A1 trench guns are much more durable than the 500 or standard 590. The heavy barrel, parkerized finish, and all metal construction make them much more durable over the long haul. Not saying the 500 or 590 isn't durable because they are, but over the course of time the M590A1 is the far better choice for tactical use. It is MILSPEC for a reason.
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Old May 12, 2017, 11:08 AM   #16
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Doyle - I don't disagree about 7 1/2, especially for snakes, but I like the idea of having rounds that can handle just about anything. For example, twice I witnessed friends having to expend multiple rounds from handguns at close range to dispatch a porcupine, they seem pretty tough. I also think bigger shot is better for big coons and porcupines up in a tree since some of the pellets may go into the tree trunk and limbs instead of the varmint.

Last edited by oldscot3; May 12, 2017 at 11:14 AM.
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Old May 12, 2017, 01:47 PM   #17
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oldscot3, I don't view porcupines as a threat to much of anything other than chicken eggs.
They're slow-moving, fairly innocuous beasts that just want to be left alone as they pass through an area.

That being said, the rest of my family, for whatever reason and much to my dismay, has a fascination with killing every porcupine they encounter.
I agree that they are some tough SOBs, and will soak up bird shot from a shotgun like nothing happened. Short of good buck shot or a slug, porcupines may be fatally wounded, but are not 'stopped' without a substantial number of rounds/shells put in them.

I've seen .22 LR, .22 WMR, .223 Rem, .380 Auto, 9mm, .38/.357, .40 S&W, .54 caliber round balls and conical bullets, and 12 ga bird shot loads get soaked up, round after round, with no hindrance to the walking pincushion.
Not until you get to about .41/.44 Mag for handguns, .243 Win for 'varmint cartridges', or TT / #4 buck for shot shells, does a body shot show a response. Head shots, if available, are a different matter, of course (though, seemingly, rarely available on the spiky pigs).

I wasn't there for it, but one of my brothers likes telling a story about one of my uncles pumping 36 rounds of .40 S&W ('hard cast') into a porcupine that was still just trundling along up a hill side until it got popped with a .338 WM.
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Old May 12, 2017, 03:00 PM   #18
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Exactly right. I would add though, when certain breeds of working/hunting dogs get on a porky the results usually are very bad for the dog. In addition, certain types and sizes of trees can be outright killed by a porcupine in short order. For those reasons I will never let them escape if I have any opportunity to dispatch them.
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Old May 12, 2017, 07:22 PM   #19
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Not so. The M590A1 trench guns are much more durable than the 500 or standard 590. The heavy barrel, parkerized finish, and all metal construction make them much more durable over the long haul. Not saying the 500 or 590 isn't durable because they are, but over the course of time the M590A1 is the far better choice for tactical use. It is MILSPEC for a reason.
And who really needs milspec for a few backyard pests? The basic 500 ( or even the cheaper Maverick) will do the job for several lifetimes. And 3" is not necessary for critters.
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Old May 12, 2017, 09:04 PM   #20
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I hate to keep repeating myself, but I was just so surprised at what a bargain I feel the Mossberg pumps are compared to other choices. My research so far has turned up very few significant criticisms of any of the models from Maverick to 590A1.

The coach gun SxS is way out of the running now. I'm going to take down my son's old grandpa Rem 870, clean it up and if everything looks good just buy the 18" barrel from Midway.

If it doesn't look so good, I'll pick one of the Mossbergs.

Thanks for all the input, this has been a very helpful discussion for me.
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Old May 12, 2017, 09:20 PM   #21
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You WILL like the old 870, especially, (as I think it is), a Wingmaster
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Old May 12, 2017, 10:38 PM   #22
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Yes, his old one is a Wingmaster, the new one a sp magnum turkey gun. I haven't researched it yet but I'm guessing it will be 1950s. My boy's grandpa from that branch of the family was a WWII vet and I think he probably got it after the war. It might not have been new when he got though so I'll do a serial number lookup when I get to it.

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Old May 13, 2017, 09:32 AM   #23
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Gotta correct a 500 comment.

The 500A1 comes with a thicker barrel than the 500....but you know what? The Maverick 88 comes with a thicker barrel than the 500.

So. What barrel do you think the Maverick 88 has?

It's marketing. The 88/500/500a/500a1 barrels are interchangeable. Technically, if you put a cheap 88 barrel on a 500, the barrel is the same as the 500a1 (minus the 20" length, yes, but you can cut).

More strange, the 88 combo comes with a 18.5" and 28" VR for 20 dollars more than a single barrel 88--both thicker barrels then the 500. If you were to buy a 88 combo and 500, swap some barrels, and resell the 88 you could have the 500A...

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Old May 26, 2017, 05:25 AM   #24
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snake gun

Propped at the back door of bamahouse is a very old Winchester 37 .410, purchased used for $50 bucks one afternoon after work. It was propped against a tree in a front yard with a "For Sale" sign.

Small town "Amurica", in the South, you gotta love it.

Anyhow, that old gun's sole purpose is to wallop pests, of which poisonous snakes are fairly common. A .410 is plenty, and the little 2-3/4 inch trap loads work fine too.

You may not find a nice M37, but a similar single shot .410 or 20 ga, used, should be out there for less than $100 bucks these days still.
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