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Old September 11, 2016, 07:23 AM   #1
MarkCO
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Two more Inertia Shotguns

Seems the flood gates have opened. Anyone get either of these and play with them yet?

http://www.weatherby.com/products/sh...semi-auto.html

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/S1200
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Old September 11, 2016, 08:56 AM   #2
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Stevens seems to be getting better and better, I'm excited to see reviews of the s1200
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Old September 11, 2016, 09:25 AM   #3
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Just looking at the photo of the Stevens gun it looks a lot like it could be a re-badged Stoeger. If it is that ain't a bad thing.
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Old September 11, 2016, 10:28 AM   #4
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So after many years they've caught up with Benelli ?
Nice prices I guess but are they as good as Benelli ? There are places where hunting is hot and heavy and the two guns that are most reliable are available to rent - Benelli inertia and Beretta's gas operated.
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Old September 11, 2016, 08:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
could be a re-badged Stoeger. If it is that ain't a bad thing.
Seriously? Stoegers are Brazilian crap, the worst of the worst. You'd be better off with a Huglu from Turkey..................
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Old September 12, 2016, 08:47 AM   #6
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mete, not sure I can answer your questions, which is why I asked.

There are others that are now using Benelli designs since the patents expired, some are decent, some not worth messing with.

FWIW, Stoeger is owned by the same company as Benelli and they are mostly made in Turkey. They are a very decent option.
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Old September 12, 2016, 11:13 AM   #7
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eriously? Stoegers are Brazilian crap,
I owned a Stoeger 2000 for a couple of years. They are made in Turkey and are very well made. I ran across a great deal on a used Benelli M-1 and had a chance to own and use them side by side for about a year. Other than fit and finish the Stoeger shot every bit as well. Granted one year doesn't address long term durability, but they are far from crap.

I couldn't justify keeping 2 guns so similar and had a chance to sell the Stoeger at a small profit so I let it go. But I'd buy or recommend another.
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Old September 12, 2016, 01:57 PM   #8
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MarkCO, I've had my Benelli for many years and it has served me well. Mine was bought back when it was sold here by H&K. Many including gun writers thought is was weird .I found it was far easier to explain the action by taking it apart and putting it back together . That took only seconds !! Mine also was one of the first black synthetic stock shotguns. Snide remarks about a riot gun by the owners of fancy doubles made me decorate mine by carving the stock !!! I thought highly ,and still do of the design !
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Old September 12, 2016, 02:11 PM   #9
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I have a bunch of shotguns on the rack; Stoeger, Benelli, FN, Browning, Remington and a few others. I am thinking a Weatherby Element might end up joining them.
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Old September 12, 2016, 03:49 PM   #10
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Weatherby and Stoeger...show up once in a while on clay target fields...and for the most part, disappear faster than they appeared, and overall both mfg's have a "spotty" reputation at best. They are just not good long term shotguns ( and maybe not even short term under 5,000 shells in my view )...but there will always be some exceptions that will run pretty well....and the trick is telling which one or two it might be by looking at them - and you can't tell. My personal opinion is they are selling them at a price point...where they are trying to convince people they are similar enough to Benelli, that they are a less expensive alternative to the Benelli --- and I don't see much evidence that they are holding up to even a modest shell count of 25,000 shells...

Savage...who knows, I haven't seen any around. I am of an age, where I know of the Savage reputation ...in past years/ way past...when they had a few shotguns ( single shot, etc )...but they were never a serious shotgun company in my view...and then bankrupt, and started up again, etc...

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If you really want a proven Inertia shotgun....buy the Benelli. Personally, I have Super Sport models in 12ga and a 20ga....both have been 100% reliable and solid performers...soft shooting with the Comfort Tech system in them ( I would not recommend a wood stocked Benelli - or a synthetic stocked model without the Comfort Tech system in it ).

I find the Benelli action smooth and fast cycling...as long as the shell ( regardless of the amount of shot in shell 3/4 oz to 1 1/8 oz )..has a velocity of 1200 fps. At 1150 fps, you will probabaly have feeding issues - but the trick is to keep them clean and properly lubed ( which is very easy ) at least with the Super Sport models. Benelli, in my view, gives you a lot of gun for the money.
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Old September 12, 2016, 04:31 PM   #11
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Jim, I have Benellis and an M2 is my primary shotgun.

My kid runs a Benellized M3000 that he absolutely loves and it runs like a champ.

The Savage certainly gives me pause and I have yet to see any reputable shotguner put a lot of rounds through an Element. Mostly bloggers, most of whom...

I don't need a new shotgun and I have a few I am wrapping up testing on and am looking for a new shotgun to beat on. Anyway, thanks for you thoughts Jim. I might do something else for the winter testing.

PS. I can run 1100 fps 1 1/8 ounce in my M2.
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Old September 12, 2016, 11:11 PM   #12
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Thanks -- and Good to know...yes, if you're into testing, I would recommend something else.

If I was looking for a budget semi-auto....i'd probably go with a gas gun - like Browning Silver hunter...they're reasonably well built / I have bought a couple for grandkids but they don't get much use -- maybe only 5,000 shells thru each of them so far .in a year or so....but no issues.

I did put 15,000 or so shells thru my 12ga Benelli Super sport 12ga one season, about 10 yrs ago...( I fractured my shoulder blade in bicycle accident --- and I just couldn't shoulder & shoot my over unders that season )...so it was light enough to mount & swing -- and soft shooting enough with 1oz loads @ 1225 fps that I shot it as my primary gun that year.

I've now had that shoulder completely rebuilt ( rotator cuff, bicep reattached, bone spurs ground down )....shoulder blade healed OK too.....and on bad pain days, I still shoot Benelli or a 28ga over under / but i'm not competing anymore -- just a casual fair weather shooter now... / Benelli has been a solid gun for 12 or 13 years now...and probably close to 100,000 shells thru the 12ga / and only 10,000 or so thru the 20ga.../ but I would buy them again, for what it's worth..
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Old September 13, 2016, 04:48 PM   #13
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jim how,in your opinion, does the franchi affinity hold up to the benelli m2? i have an affinity in 12ga and 20ga that i absolutely love. i can actually hit better with the 20ga at the moment ha! i had my mind made up when i went buy a new shotgun on a benelli. but, i messed up and shouldered a franchi affinity and the franchi pointed better for me. i know as far as pointability a shotgun is very subjective. i guess what i'm asking is there anything in the franchi that would make it have any less longevity than the benelli m2? i know that the spring is around the mag tube vs the benelli is in the stock. any thing else?
thanks,
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Old September 13, 2016, 11:51 PM   #14
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I only have casual experience with Franchi's - from 2 acquaintances that had them, and they had some cycling issues ( but i'm not confident those guys were keeping them clean and properly lubed --- so it may have been maintenance issues ...and one had some trigger group issues -- but I'm not sure of specifics ( springs, pins, etc).../ but I think he got it worked out.

Both guys bought them as "bargains"....when they were new to sporting clays.....and one moved on to a high end Beretta gas gun that he found used - with more adjustability for fit / the other guy quit shooting it and went to an O/U for more versatility ( 2 chokes, etc )...

Neither shooter knew anything about " fit " ....and the one that went to the O/U needed a parallel adjustable comb with a lot of offset...so rather than modify stock on Franchi, he just put it away.

I know they both kept them as bargain guns - pass onto kids or whatever / internally, when I saw the guns apart - the fit and finish wasn't great.../ but I think as entry level guns, if they "fit" they might hold up to 100,000 shells or more.

If you're going to be a tournament shooter, or a serious hunter....I think there are better options out there....but not everyone needs a 500,000 she'll gun that will run 100% year after year. I don't see many Franchi's around...but I don't know that anything internally in them makes them a bad option.
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In general, how I judge a gun........ I would not want a wood stocked inertia gun / I would go to a gas gun if I wanted a wood stock -- to reduce recoil. In a 4 day tournament ....with practice, etc. I would often shoot 200 - 300 shells a day...and if weather is hot, humid...more recoil, even a little, is cumulative and it wears you down mentally --- and when classes are won or lost on a couple of targets...

I want adjustability for "fit" so gun hits where you look. Shims between receiver & stock to adjust drop, etc....adjustable comb, adjust length of pull....are not options, usually, on entry level guns. I like ported barrels ( reduce muzzle jump between 1st & 2nd shot ) and extended chokes ...and for a single barrel, I want 5 chokes Cyc, IC, Mod, Imp Mod, Full ...some guns come with all 5, some don't.....

For max versatility, I want an O/U....2 barrels, 2 chokes if I need them. No cycling or feeding issues.....so when I choose a semi-auto, it has to overcome the fact that i'm limited to 1 choke....so I need it to do the other things very well ( shoot clean/ easy to fully strip & clean at lunch break in tournament - trigger group out, etc / have a lot of adjustability / I want it to be versatile enough it will be a decent option for upland birds, Skeet, 5 stand and sporting clays ....and marginally OK for trap )....which is asking a lot...
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It's my opinion that Browning, Beretta and Benelli....all give you a lot of gun for your money....and there are so many models, it's tough to pick one gun for everything you need / but I think Franchi is trying to fill that niche..for a value gun...so I don'the think you'll have an issue with them usually. I hope they continue to work well for you !!

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Old September 14, 2016, 12:16 AM   #15
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wow! thanks BigJim for the most detailed response. all i know is that the Franchi Affinity pointed the most natural for me as it sat in the gun shop. like i said i had my mind made up that i was getting a benelli. But, there is just something about that Affinity. probably a good thing i didn't go with a Benelli cause i was gonna get a sbe 2. i don't need that thing ha! i won't ever shoot a 3.5" shell. who am i foolin'? imma dove hunter baby! so, i bought a 12ga and a 20ga Affinty for the same price i would have paid for the sbe2 that probably wouldn't even cycle dove loads.
thanks again for your thoughts,
eddie
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Old September 14, 2016, 10:56 AM   #16
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You're welcome....

For some, it may be boring, but the concept of "Fit" seems to be really misunderstood. Some folks think since its a "scattergun" close is all its supposed to be...but that's not your optimum for hunting or for clay targets.

Its difficult to see, unless you have a lot of experience with shotguns, if a gun in a store fits you or not -- and Fit means it hits where you look. To check the "Fit"...go to a pattern board ..or somewhere that you can hang a 36" X 36" target...screw in a full choke ...and shoot at 20 - 25 yds...and check the point of impact ( put a 3" dot on target to shoot at )..mount gun, look at Dot ..and pull trigger. If your point of impact is high or low ..or left or right you might have a "Fit" issue. ( but shoot 3 shells ...to get an average ..in case you flinched or something ).

If you are consistently ...high or low/or whatever....then some adjustment to stock is necessary - if your gun allows it ( many don't ).
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In a gunstore...you can try to mount the gun, looking up at a spot on wall or something...but before you mount the gun, look at spot on wall ( says its a clock )...close your eyes, don't move your head, and then mount the gun...after gun is mounted, face on comb, etc - open your eyes...and see if you're still looking at clock or not. If your mount is inconsistent...it may be the problem / or the gun may not fit.

There is also a drill you can do at home ...to perfect your mount / empty gun...look accross room at a wall light switch. Close eyes, don't move head, then mount...and see what you're looking at ...if you are still looking at light switch you're good. Now do it 19 more times...about 3 times a week / you'll be shocked at how good your gun mount gets.

My opinion on gun mount...imagine a rectangle in front of your chest. Gun is near waist, in your hands...move the gun straight out in front of you along lower line of rectangle, then straight up to shoulder level ( not back, just straight up toward ceiling), then move straight back to shoulder along upper line of rectangle. Get your elbow angles correct during the mount, not too much pressure with your forward hand...fine tune it / and do it 20 times as well...
------------
Any gun with an angled comb ...means the position of your face on the comb..if you move up or back 1/2"...will change the elevation of the muzzle. So in the old days...we had guns that we shot really well ( because we had that fit just right )...with that particular shooting vest, that wool shirt, that coat.../ but then in early fall, with only a sweater on - we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn..( face was moving up or back on comb )...so we optimized our "clothing" to adjust the fit.
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Personally, I need a parallel comb gun...so comb is parallel to rib. That means once I adjust the comb to give me the point of impact correct ( move comb up, down, left or right )....then that gun's point of impact will not change if I'm shooting in a T shirt in 100 degree summer weather, or 30 degrees on a morning pheasant hunt, or whatever when my outer clothing changes.
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I had no clue about this stuff until I started hanging around Skeet shooters...and they started helping me understand and adjust my gun ...and it all improved when I went to a parallel comb gun ( Benelli Super Sport with optional comb pads and shims ..can be made parallel / my primary O/U's are Browning Citori XS Skeet models or XT Trap models - with adjustable parallel combs ). If I want to shoot a pump gun or something with an angled comb ...like a Browning BPS pump...then I put a comb pad that you can stick on to top of comb ...tape it on first with elec tape to get it set right ( again go to pattern board to check it )....and then permanently stick it on comb.
--------------
Not all shotgun stocks are the same...even if they're all angled. The mfg's try to fit the average shooter supposedly ...but since I'm a little bigger than the average Buffalo ( at 6'5" and around 290 ..( maybe 300, as Fall gets here I need to put on some hibernation weight )...but what fits my teenage grandkids at 6 Ft and 125 lbs.../ won't work for me .../ and what fits me, may not work for you. You will probably find that some Mfg's combs fit you better than others..( less drop at heel / or more )...but you'll be surprised at how different they are - especially if you have some older guns in the family.
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The little things... a palm swell on the grip area of a shotgun ( if your gun has it, may or may not work ), a minor adjustment in length of pull can make a difference / weight can make a big difference.

Weight of a gun helps reduce recoil ( an extra lb in the gun probably reduces recoil about 20% ) ...so thats why some 20ga guns at 6 lbs beat the stuffing out of a guy ..vs an 8 lb 12ga.../ but with a light gun, like Benelli Super Sport at 7.2 lbs ( 12ga, and a 30" barrel / but they have a 28" barrel also that's even lighter )...because its so light, I tend to "slap" at targets vs making a smooth follow thru. So for a light gun ( 12ga under 8 lbs ) I want to go longer ( so I went with the 30" over the 28" on that gun ), because longer sight plane helps me smooth out the swing on follow thru. More weight ...like a 10 lb Citori XT Trap...helps my follow thru too on Trap targets / but the 10lb gun feels like a big ole sewer pipe if I try to shoot Skeet or Sporting Clays with it ..the weight is hard to overcome when I have quick crossing targets...so everyone has to find what works for them.

My buddy is 6 Ft and a lean 175 lbs.../ he thinks my 30" O/U's at 8.5 lbs are way too long for him / he shoots a 28" O/U at around 9 lbs.../ so again what works for me, won't work for him.

I have young adult grandaughters that are petite.. ( my wifes side of family not mine )...5' and 100 lbs...so a gun like the Benelli Super Sport 20ga, 28" barrel, comfort tech, at around 6 lbs is perfect for her. I don't shoot that 20ga Benelli much because its too light and too short - but mostly because its too short.

Another trick on some guns...go to golf store and get some lead tape made for golf clubs. They're usually in 4 oz packages ../ so if I have a 20ga that is around 7 lbs.../ I can put 8oz of lead tape under forend...and 8 oz of lead tape inside stock ..to give me an 8 lb gun. It then feels like my 12ga guns ...reduces recoil, feels better, swings better, etc..

So all that little stuff matters..../ and no matte what --- have fun with the process !!

None of these thoughts are originial to me....this stuff is discussed in any number of videos and books on Fit, selecting a gun, etc.../ my thoughts are just a summary of the stuff I've learned in 50+ yrs of shotgunning...

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Old September 14, 2016, 11:41 AM   #17
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Yes, Fit is huge! Great post Jim!

Many 3Gunners (where I play more than on the Clay Fields) don't get it and I admit I have missed more 10 yard static plates than I should have due to fit.

That is one of the big things that drew me to my Browning Golden Clays and the Benellis...the ability to play with and tune to fit to me.
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Old September 14, 2016, 04:57 PM   #18
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thanks once again BigJim. well, as fate would have it i performed your second gunshop quik test as i'm sure they wouldn't be too happy if i started dropping shells in a new gun ha! yeah i closed my eyes and shouldered a few guns and the franchi affinity was pretty much spot on,i also knew that it came with stock shims for fine tuning if needed, every time i opened my eyes i was looking straight down the rib and seeing just a little rib. that was corrected when i got home with it and installed the most aggressive shim that the affinity came with so when i threw up and opened my eyes i only saw the bead/fiber optic and no rib. the others i compared it to in the lgs i would be looking slightly sideways to the rib or way too much rib showing. thats how i decided on the franchi. well, that and they are made in the Urbino,Italy plant that makes Benelli's kinda pushed it over the edge. i felt like it was close enough to a m2 w/o m2 money and i liked the fact that the recoil spring was out front vs the m2 being in the stock.
thanks again for taking time,
Eddie
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