Home Defense Shotgun?

[johnwilliamson062]

you have to understand how manufacturing works. Getting a tighter action means lower tolerance and more problems. Of course it can me manufactured with smoother finished parts to equal this out but it is just going to cost more. Tighter action is done either to sound pretty or be more accurate. Accuracy isn't really a factor in shotguns, sounding/feeling nice never got me anywhere.

I will seconds there is either a user error or you need to send the gun back. With the wide open tolerances on an 870/500 you should be able to cycle a shell after running it over with your car.

[jammin1237]

+1 iuindy21 -- win 1300s still rock the best and i would bet my life on em...too bad its not in production any more................

[gustav129]

It might also be the fit of the gun. I have short fingers, so I went with the Moss 835 instead of the Rem 870 for the safety and the "racking" button. I can't reach to the front of the trigger guard to press it. My 835 has it behind the trigger guard (where the safety is on the 870). I remember having troubles trying to rack shells through as a kid because of the "awkward to me" possition of the button.

"Racking" Button (Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics):


Perfect Place:


I wouldn't be able to reach the button on the 870:

[johnwilliamson062]

+1 iuindy21 -- win 1300s still rock the best and i would bet my life on em...too bad its not in production any more...............

Shotguns seem to be more personal fit and preference than any other gun, but I had a 1300 for two days, almost threw up everytime I touched it and sold it under value just to get rid of it.

[Nnobby45]

I can't reach to the front of the trigger guard to press it. My 835 has it behind the trigger guard (where the safety is on the 870). I remember having troubles trying to rack shells through as a kid because of the "awkward to me" possition of the ...

Your fingers are not suppose to reach the front of the trigger guard when you have the gun to shoulder firing position.

The placement of the ACTION BAR RELEASE at the front of the trigger guard requires that you operate it with your TRIGGER FINGER out of the trigger guard. See the safety aspect here?

Lower the shotgun from your shoulder to to high ready (tuck but under arm) and simply operate the release. Notice how you can't inadvertently disengage the safety while, as mentioned, your finger is outside the trigger guard? Notice how easy it is to check the chamber quickly, and in a safe manner? Notice how it's impossible to confuse the safety with the action bar release--at least for left handed shooters?

[Swampghost]

Why a shotgun for HD? The average 'confrontation distance' is 8-12 ft. and toting a longarm invites defeat. Pistols reign in close quarters.

[rdrancher]

toting a longarm invites defeat.

You can't be serious.


rd

[gustav129]

Originally Posted by Nnobby45

Your fingers are not suppose to reach the front of the trigger guard when you have the gun to shoulder firing position.

The placement of the ACTION BAR RELEASE at the front of the trigger guard requires that you operate it with your TRIGGER FINGER out of the trigger guard. See the safety aspect here?

Lower the shotgun from your shoulder to to high ready (tuck but under arm) and simply operate the release. Notice how you can't inadvertently disengage the safety while, as mentioned, your finger is outside the trigger guard? Notice how easy it is to check the chamber quickly, and in a safe manner? Notice how it's impossible to confuse the safety with the action bar release--at least for left handed shooters?

So you are saying that I'm in the wrong because my hands are small? By what you are saying, I would have to hold the shotgun with my elbow tucking it into my side to rack a shell in the chamber. Did I even say that I rack the gun in shoulder firing position?

I like the Mossberg because I can remain in control of the gun at all times. My strong hand is my right hand. The Action Bar release is outside of the trigger gaurd, behind it. So My trigger finger is outside of the trigger gaurd, and I don't have to let go of absolute control of my gun See the safety aspect here?

Notice how easy and quick it is for me to check the chamber by turning it sideways and racking it without leting go of the stock on my shotgun for even a nano second?
Notice my safety is on top of the receiver, so I don't confuse my safety with my action action release, when I do shoot my shotgun left handed (I'm left eye dominant)?

What you are saying could cost me a rooster if I had to let go of my shotgun with my right hand what so ever, especially if I flush one in the middle of reloading. With this set up, if I'm loading a shell, I can rack it as I'm raising the shotgun to my shoulder, sight in a rooster, and press the safety with my thumb, all in one quick motion.

[isanchez2008]

I have had my Remington 870 Magnum for 6 years now and it has had at least 5000 rounds of target loads, 500 slugs, and around 1000 rounds of buckshot through it. The only hickups have been due to operator error. I would have yours looked at by a COMPETENT gunsmith. These shotguns are great and will run with bad ammo, good ammo and under gnarly conditions. Once the issue is fixed I am sure you will be very happy with your 870. Good luck

[MarketingGuy]

Plenty of Remington defenders here, it seems. I guess I'll chime in on the Mossberg side. Not to just dismiss your complaint, but my wife's HD shotgun is the Mossberg Cruiser, the short-barrel pistol-grip version. She's got hundreds of rounds through it with no problems. With the short barrel and the pistol-grip stock, we think it's pretty much the perfect HD weapon.

[gustav129]

For Home Defense, I would like to get the Mossberg JIC Cruiser.

[nemoaz]

So you are saying that I'm in the wrong because my hands are small? By what you are saying, I would have to hold the shotgun with my elbow tucking it into my side to rack a shell in the chamber. Did I even say that I rack the gun in shoulder firing position?

I don't think that is what he's saying. You simply move your strong hand forward slightly to manipulate the action bar release. It's easily done and you still have the rest of your fingers wrapped about the weapon. It does require you to move your hand and you'd have to move the hand back to get on trigger.

Alternatively, you can leave your shotgun "cruiser ready" (hammer down, full magazine, safety on) or "rack ready" (hammer down, magazine empty, safety on). Then you don't have to hit the action bar release. I personally leave my shotguns cruiser ready mostly because that's the way I've been trained.

I too prefer Mossberg's controls over the Remington, but the Remington is certainly easy enough to use.

[hogdogs]

Swamp, I gotta hollar "poo-poo" on the shotgun=defeat... I challenge any man/men to a dry fire training exercise inside my home. Since we are talking training exercise I will remain inside my bedroom until you close my door. This will take place in total darkness. I bet my 500 that I have "taken kills" before my gun is removed from my control.
folks need to train and remember that a shor gun is both a fire arm, a club and a spear. While it won't likely penetrate, when used as a spear it can slow down forward attack with a solid thrust to the gut, sternum or throat.
I do not advocate a bayonet as in the scuffle it could end up harming me.
Hand guns cannot be used by me as effectively as my 2 handed grip has my hands closer together for less leverage. Plus it cannot be used as a club as well...
Brent

[Katrina Guy]

being a deliberate placement on Remington's for saftety's sake?
Interesting concept, then I reckon Mossbergs are the most unsafe shotguns on the market. Having both an 870 HD model and a Mossberg Persuader, never fired either yet (recent acquistions), just on the surface if you will, it's one thing to leave your car and walk a few yards into the woods in a hunting situation and at your leisure switch hands to acquire by reach the slide release on an 870, activate it, and then continue your walk deeper into the woods , then it is to (if one keeps their HD shotgun unchambered) be awakened in the middle of the night and have to reach for your shotgun, THEN reach around with your other hand to activate the slide release, or if you gun were to jam in the middle of it all and if you had to play this musical hands game yet once again to get to the slide release...well....I'd choose my rickity unsafe slide position Mossberg Persuader over my Remington 870.
Always amazed in the loyality of different brands, as if some of the poster's actually had something to do with it's design. It's a tool, some tools are made better then others, some tools are more user friendly if you will, then others.

[Dave McC]

Swamp, kindly cite your reasons for your statement. Thanks....

[nemoaz]

Why a shotgun for HD? The average 'confrontation distance' is 8-12 ft. and toting a longarm invites defeat. Pistols reign in close quarters.

This guy smoked too many issues of Handgun Magazine. I note that no military or police dept agrees with you. Yet to see soldiers or SRT sling their carbines and shotguns in order to use their pistols so as to "reign in close quarters".

[johnwilliamson062]

Quote:
toting a longarm invites defeat.
You can't be serious.

I would much prefer to meet a Desert Eagle at 12 feet in competent hands than a Moss 500 at 12 feet in untrained hands.
30 24 caliber projectiles!!!! Jeesh, that will mess up anyone.
Like many before me said, a pistol is only good to fight your way back to your long guns.

[Nnobby45]

So you are saying that I'm in the wrong because my hands are small? By what you are saying, I would have to hold the shotgun with my elbow tucking it into my side to rack a shell in the chamber. Did I even say that I rack the gun in shoulder firing position?

I'm saying that I saw your picture with your hand gripping the shot gun as if you were shooting, and read the phrase "I wouldn't be able to reach the button on the 870".

Then I pointed out how to properly "reach the button". 870 shooters don't "miss their rooster" because they don't have control of their shotgun. For new shooters, there might be a slight learning curve.

But, the main thing I'm saying is that if you prefer the Mossberg that's fine. No need to make the 870 sound like it's difficult to use.

[Slopemeno]

I don't know exactly how much shotgun experience you have, so let me try this: When I go out to the hunting field, I'm rarely hitting the slide release to see if my chamber is loaded- it IS and I know that. If I want to hit the slide release on my 870, I extend my index and middle finger alongside the trigger guard, and slide my hand slightly forward and sweep my fingers acrosss the slide release. I then return my right hand to the usual location.

If I shoot the gun dry in a hunting situation, I would find out by the gun not going bang- in that case open the action (notice that it didn't require hitting the slide release- the hammer was down) drop a live round in the chamber with your weak hand (various schools say come up from underneath or over the top) and with your weak hand sweep the pump handle forward. Now load the magazine.

Oh, and try reloading with your weak hand, so that would be your left if youre right handed. You can keep your eyes "outside" so to speak, and scan (and watch where your muzzle points as well).

FWIW I was a gunsmith and department armorer for years for lots of agencies, and at the time all of them used 870s. We would recertify about 200 different 870's every year for duty, and I never saw park rangers, SWAT guys, even low time officers ever say, "Hey, I can't reach that". All of our customers who shot 3-gun matches, bowling pins, and IPSC/USPSA never complained about it either, for that matter.

Heck, nobody even makes a ridiculous oversized lever as an accessory, and that's saying something...

[Dave McC]

My $0.02....

Like oversized safeties, the bigger it is, the easier it is to hit unintentionally.

I trained a few hundred folks to shoot shotguns for MD DOC. There were few that had problems reaching the controls. Few indeed were shotgunners before the fact.

IMO, some folks are seeking a hardware solution to a software problem.

Swampghost, still waiting for that explanation....

[gustav129]

Originally Posted by Nnobby45

I'm saying that I saw your picture with your hand gripping the shot gun as if you were shooting, and read the phrase "I wouldn't be able to reach the button on the 870".

The second pic posted is how I am always holding my shot gun, all four fingers wrapped around the stock at all times, wether its in my lap in the duckblind, on my shoulder, in both arms, or cradled in my left arm. The picture of index finger outstretched only as a reference to show how short my fingers are compared to where the location of the action release button.

[nemoaz]

IMO, some folks are seeking a hardware solution to a software problem.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!