Advice for a friend that carries knives ONLY - Page 2

Netzapper · September 17, 2005, 12:25 PM

You know, one of the primary reasons I started carrying is a scenario that happened to two of my friends several years ago: They're gay, and a couple, and were walking down a very busy street together carrying groceries and walking their dog. Out of nowhere, one of my friends gets sucker punched by a passing guy. The guy and his five friends then proceed to beat the ever-loving crap out of my friend. When his boyfriend attempted to stop the attack, they began beating him, too. Finally, one of the dozen or so people watching this called the cops (who didn't show up for about fifteen minutes), and screamed this at the attackers. They ran away shortly thereafter. One of my friends was left with a fractured orbital, severe bruising, a concussion, two broken ribs, cuts and contusions everywhere; the other was left with severe bruising, a broken mandible, and a mild concussion. And their attackers were never caught.

In this circumstance, I would most definitely have drawn a weapon to stop the attack (even if they weren't my friends). I cannot possibly hope to end an attack by six people with only by bare hands. If they didn't stop after verbal commands ("Stop! I have a gun! Stop!"), I probably would have dropped the hammer on one of them.

It's a little more gray-area when folks aren't outnumbered. But, I have a general rule: if I'm afraid that somebody is going to kill or maim me, I'm going to do everything in my power to survive. I'd prefer to spend ten years in prison for a 2nd degree murder charge than not have a life to spend anywhere.

leadcounsel · September 17, 2005, 12:37 PM

Netzapper:
The law in Colorado where I live would ABSOLUTELY allow for using a gun or a knife in this situation. You can use deadly force to protect yourself or another that is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death.

5 aggressive men against two who are getting there rear ends kicked is definately within the definition of imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death.

If I were witnessing that sitaution as a CCW and assessed it as you described, I would have taken cover with all of the perps in my sight within 20 feet and shouted a warning to them and then if they failed to comply I would have dropped the hammer on one of them, probably the one easiest to hit without danger of injury to any innocent people. That would get the attention of the others and probably allow you to detain them until the police get there by ordering them face down on the pavement. Meanwhile, you'd also have to have the presence of mind to get a witness to call 911 and also ask witnesses to the incident to give their statements.

Now, same scenario with only a knife: Unfortunately, I'm not good enough with a knife to confidently defend myself against 5 aggressive adult men. Nor would I be able to intervene in this type of beating. The best bet would be to stand nearby as a witness and call the police (who were worthless here and it could have resulted in someones' death).

leadcounsel · September 17, 2005, 12:39 PM

Update:

After going to the range last weekend my friend has a renewed interest in starting to carry again (he took the course and has a CCW but just never got interested in carry a gun and carries a knife instead).

His main reason for not carrying was that he feels his pistol is too big. He's shopping for a new pistol and interested in the Sig P226. I'm happy for him.

September 17, 2005, 12:25 PM	#26
Netzapper Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Gilpin county, CO Posts: 261	You know, one of the primary reasons I started carrying is a scenario that happened to two of my friends several years ago: They're gay, and a couple, and were walking down a very busy street together carrying groceries and walking their dog. Out of nowhere, one of my friends gets sucker punched by a passing guy. The guy and his five friends then proceed to beat the ever-loving crap out of my friend. When his boyfriend attempted to stop the attack, they began beating him, too. Finally, one of the dozen or so people watching this called the cops (who didn't show up for about fifteen minutes), and screamed this at the attackers. They ran away shortly thereafter. One of my friends was left with a fractured orbital, severe bruising, a concussion, two broken ribs, cuts and contusions everywhere; the other was left with severe bruising, a broken mandible, and a mild concussion. And their attackers were never caught. In this circumstance, I would most definitely have drawn a weapon to stop the attack (even if they weren't my friends). I cannot possibly hope to end an attack by six people with only by bare hands. If they didn't stop after verbal commands ("Stop! I have a gun! Stop!"), I probably would have dropped the hammer on one of them. It's a little more gray-area when folks aren't outnumbered. But, I have a general rule: if I'm afraid that somebody is going to kill or maim me, I'm going to do everything in my power to survive. I'd prefer to spend ten years in prison for a 2nd degree murder charge than not have a life to spend anywhere.

September 17, 2005, 12:37 PM	#27
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Netzapper: The law in Colorado where I live would ABSOLUTELY allow for using a gun or a knife in this situation. You can use deadly force to protect yourself or another that is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death. 5 aggressive men against two who are getting there rear ends kicked is definately within the definition of imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death. If I were witnessing that sitaution as a CCW and assessed it as you described, I would have taken cover with all of the perps in my sight within 20 feet and shouted a warning to them and then if they failed to comply I would have dropped the hammer on one of them, probably the one easiest to hit without danger of injury to any innocent people. That would get the attention of the others and probably allow you to detain them until the police get there by ordering them face down on the pavement. Meanwhile, you'd also have to have the presence of mind to get a witness to call 911 and also ask witnesses to the incident to give their statements. Now, same scenario with only a knife: Unfortunately, I'm not good enough with a knife to confidently defend myself against 5 aggressive adult men. Nor would I be able to intervene in this type of beating. The best bet would be to stand nearby as a witness and call the police (who were worthless here and it could have resulted in someones' death).

September 17, 2005, 12:39 PM	#28
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Update: After going to the range last weekend my friend has a renewed interest in starting to carry again (he took the course and has a CCW but just never got interested in carry a gun and carries a knife instead). His main reason for not carrying was that he feels his pistol is too big. He's shopping for a new pistol and interested in the Sig P226. I'm happy for him.