Mosin Nagants Overrated

argyle1812 · March 21, 2011, 12:02 AM

I'm so tired of people talking about how Mosin Nagant rifles are the best thing ever. My father and i owned a 1929 MO mosin and a 1931 MO mosin both being hex receiver obviously. My father is one of the best marksmen i know and i dont consider myself a slouch. the absolute best grouping we achieved at 100 yards was about a 3.5 inch group. Not what i call a tack driver by any stretch of the imagination. Plus the fact that my fathers rifle always had feed problems despite being very well cleaned after every firing. I'm not saying Mosins are bad rifles i just think they are very overrated in every category. After all does ANY RUSSIAN gun have a reputation as super accurate out of the box?

osallent · March 21, 2011, 12:13 AM

Considering you only have two posts and this was your first post, am going to go out on a limb here and say: TROLL ALERT

Now that I properly identified you, let me answer your points one by one:

1) No one here to the best of my knowledge has said that the Mosin Nagant is the best rifle ever made. The Mosin Nagant was cheaply made, and during the war years the fit and finish was "rough" at best. However, the rifle is very rouged, can take a lot of punishment (as WWII showed) and keeps on going.

2) Accuracy is not going to be the same as a modern rifle, however, given the thousands of rounds and rough conditions that these rifles endured, they are fairly accurate considering the abuse they received.

3) The Mosin Nagant is not even the nicest rifle to shoot as far as recoil is concerned, but the 7.62x54R is a wonderful round, and I enjoy shooting it in my Mosin Nagant. Feeding problems? It's called rim lock...look it up, it is easy to solve.

4) What the Mosin Nagant has going for it is that it is a historic rifle with a great legacy (helped win WWII), and they are found dirt cheap...making them a great value for your money. If you don't have a lot of money and don't mind an old used rifle, you can't beat the Mosin Nagant's quality at that price point.

And last but not least....HOW CAN A $65 USD RIFLE THAT WORKS BE OVERRATED?

Usertag · March 21, 2011, 12:15 AM

People only like them because they are cheap. The gun itself you can get for $70. and 500 rounds of surplus 7.62x54mmR is about $100.

Bamashooter · March 21, 2011, 12:19 AM

I killed a 200lb. doe at over 200yrds. with a mosin nagant and 174gr.S&B Ammo. You were getting 3.5'' groups which isnt too bad. Quality ammo would probably do better. Mosin's arent the be all end all some of them arent very accurate and some of them are very accurate. Either way what do you expect for $100.

osallent · March 21, 2011, 12:23 AM

I'll add one more thing to my answer above.....another of the charms of the Mosin Nagant is that because it is so inexpensive, you can do things to it that you would not dare do to another rifle....such as refinishing the stock or repainting the barrel. These are fun projects that can teach you a lot about gun smithing, woodworking, etc.

argyle1812 · March 21, 2011, 12:24 AM

I don't appreciate being called a troll. Also i wasn't saying this forum specifically thought the mosin was great that just seems to be the consensus online. Also i love the 7.62 x 54 round just don't like the gun that shoots its. except a dragunov. BTW i know about rimlock but to me a military rifle should be reliable out of the box.

kraigwy · March 21, 2011, 12:41 AM

Quote:

best grouping we achieved at 100 yards was about a 3.5 inch group

You do realize that Mosins are shot in CMP GSM Vintage Military rifle matches don't you? To enlighten you, the X-10 ring of the 200 yard target used in such matches 3.5 MOA (or 3 1/2 inches at 100 yards). The average rifle is capable of cleaning the target, the reason they don't is the shooter not the rifle. Not many cleaned targets with any vintage military rifle.

Quote:

my fathers rifle always had feed problems despite being very well cleaned after every firing.

Feed problems with the Mosin are shooter related, not rifle related, that is nothing to the bolt action to screw up, its about as simple as you can get. One on need to spend the time learning to shoot the thing. Dry firing will fix that.

I'm a CSM GSM Master Instructor and put on Vintage Military Rifle clinics. Often I see some one complaining about the Mosin "jamming" and some one next to him pick up the same rifle and make it sound like a semi-auto rifle.

The stripper clips for the Mosin are a bit different, they don't work like the clips for the Springfield, Enfield, Mauser, etc. It's really simple, and with a bit of practice one can load and fire the Mosin as fast as other surplus bolt guns.

To say they are over rated is kind of silly. I mean how do you "over rate" a $100 dollar rifle. The 3.5 MOA rifle you condemn is capable of hitting an E-Silhouette (man size) Military target to about 550 yards. It makes a great battle rifle for long distance shooting, well out preforming the AK. That's the reason the AK never really replaced it. The Mosin's were kept to extend the combat range of the infantry squad.

The Mosin is the oldest military rifle that's still being used throughout the world now, still being used in Afgan, and if you watch the news you'll see some floating around in Lybia.

No Sir, I don't think you can say the Mosin is over rated. Granted its not pretty, but pretty doesn't win gun fights.

I'm putting on a GSM Clinic on May 21st, I'm extending you an invitation to attend the clinic free of charge, bring your Mosin or use mine. I'll show you how to shoot it. Those suckers hold their own in the Vintage Rifle Matches.

raftman · March 21, 2011, 12:46 AM

Simply put, sounds like a poor workman blaming his tools.

argyle1812 · March 21, 2011, 12:59 AM

Let me restate my position a bit. I understand where most of you are coming from. for 100 bucks i agree it is for sure not a bad rifle. But i never said it was just overrated. also my dads feed problem wasn't with a stripper clip it would jam up when trying to chamber a new round. lastly 3.5 moa at 100 yards might not be bad but my 190 dollar 1930 VZ 24 mauser will do 2 inch all day with surplus ammo.

kraigwy · March 21, 2011, 01:05 AM

How does it jam???????????

raftman · March 21, 2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Let me restate my position a bit

Here's a better restatement of your position;

"I don't actually know how to load it"

argyle1812 · March 21, 2011, 01:09 AM

it jams when he tries to chamber a new round somehow it binds and wont chamber. BTW the guns were replaced about a month ago with my mauser and a enfield NO4 mk1*

osallent · March 21, 2011, 01:13 AM

I read up on rim lock and how to avoid it before I went to shoot my Mosin Nagant for the first time. With the knowledge I gained from reading about rim lock online, I was able to properly load my Mosin Nagant and I had not one single failure.

ejhc11 · March 21, 2011, 02:53 AM

You are not too familiar with Russian/Soviet/Russian ideology? Make more of everything is better than less of higher quality. In WWI and WWII they sacrificed their soldiers to the front line not to win but to used up their enemies bullets.

Make it cheap and plenty, if it turns out to be a good product then great.

Mosins are great, its for people who want to enjoy shooting and not spend a fortune at it.

Kreyzhorse · March 21, 2011, 07:01 AM

Quote:

After all does ANY RUSSIAN gun have a reputation as super accurate out of the box?

I don't believe that these rifles were made to be super accurate nor have I seen any claims they are.

What I've seen is that they are reliable, cheap and fun to shoot. That's about all I expect from a rifle that I paid $80 for.

stubbicatt · March 21, 2011, 07:25 AM

The M/N is a fun rifle to shoot. It is inexpensive to buy. Most of them were used in one of the most horrific conflicts this planet has seen. As far as rating them goes, I don't immediately recall any such ratings.

If you do not enjoy yours, that is your experience. Your experience is as valid as that of anybody else.

Sounds like your interrupter might have been sticking a bit if you experienced rimlock with this design. Vigorous extraction and working the bolt with determination sometimes will nudge the interrupter back into action.

Coyote WT · March 21, 2011, 07:30 AM

I'm a new shooter so have no educated opinion on this topic so I'll offer my personal one.

I fell in love with the look of the rifle. I like the fact that it is not a reproduction and yes I do like walking out of the gun store fully loaded with weapon, accessories and ammo for under $200. Currently my shot group looks more like a shot gun pattern than a rifle shot group but that will come with more practice (do date I've only been to the range once with it).

Best gun ever? Not on your life. It is, however, fun as hell to shoot and I will take responsibility for the things I'm not good at yet.

This will probably be my gate way drug leading me to better, more modern and more expensive weapons. For all of these reasons it'll probably remain my favorite gun, my little Aleksandra.

jhenry · March 21, 2011, 08:10 AM

Jamming while attempting to chamber a round, not when trying to extract a round, IS the rim lock you stated you knew all about.

hornetguy · March 21, 2011, 08:28 AM

I'm in the group thinking, "How do you over-rate an 89 dollar rifle?"

Most of the threads on Mosins are from folks that are wondering just what they will get for their less-than-100bucks rifle.
For those folks, I usually answer that you CAN get a rifle easily capable of 2MOA accuracy (see my previously posted pics) that is ballistically equal to the wonderful 30-06 cartridge. That's not bad at all.
I would never say it's the "best ever", even in the mil-surp category. I would take nearly ANY Mauser over it, and have heard some pretty amazing things about the accuracy of some of the Swiss rifles... but, even by your own statement, we're talking at least DOUBLE the price of the Mosin.. sometimes SEVERAL times the price. Quality is usually relative to price.

The Mosin has its quirks, and they can be frustrating, but once you get all that sorted out, I can't think of a better "truck" gun for nearly any kind of hunting. Well, except quail..

That having been said, everyone has an opinion, and I appreciate you sharing yours. We all don't have to agree... makes for interesting discussions.

Now, about that Taurus Judge.....

BusGunner007 · March 21, 2011, 08:50 AM

Hoping the OP comes back into his thread.

It would be good to re-start the 'newbie' status with a 'welcome', even though his first post was a little brash...

A lot of people may get some good info about the M-N, or pass some on to the OP with some links.

So, 'welcome', OP.
Don't be scared away or shy.
Come back in and lets use the forum for its intended purpose - to learn more.

twins · March 21, 2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Now, about that Taurus Judge.....

The word "UGLY" doesn't do it justice. But the word "over-rated" does.

Argyle, sorry your MN 91/30s are giving you trouble. Just enjoy it for its intrinsic historical value instead of shooting value. I cuss mine out once in a while too (sticky bolt syndrome with surplus ammo that I've yet to resolved with all the tricks posted on the web) but it fits the niche of cheap fun. Kind of like plinking with a 22LR but with a bruised shoulder at the end. Every rifle is over-rated on the Internet so add the MN91/30 to the list and enjoy it for what it is.

And...WELCOME!

Hiker 1 · March 21, 2011, 09:00 AM

I have a MN 1946 carbine. The ones made after WW2 are in significantly better condition. I shoot it all the time and always hit what I'm aiming at. Considering I paid less than $90, I never really considered whether or not it would fire MOA.

kx592 · March 21, 2011, 09:05 AM

Twins: check your head space.

These ol' toys are great for what they are, there the best multi purpose tool I have in the house.

twins · March 21, 2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Twins: check your head space.

KX, I haven't checked the headspace of the rifle (hopefully you're not talking about the space inside my head) so it may be the next thing on the list to do. But before I do that, the bolt sticks after rapid firing 4 or 5 rounds with surplus ammo. No sticky bolt with non-surplus or handloads. I'm guessing it has to do with the "coating" they put on these Yugo surplus ammo. The heat causes the case to stick till it cools?

I've done the prerequisite cleaning, steaming, bore paste, drown the chamber in hoppe's, varnish remover, etc.

I'm cheap and don't want to waste the surplus ammo when plinking with the 91/30. Otherwise, I'm happy with it while shooting handloads.

dahermit · March 21, 2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Considering you only have two posts and this was your first post, am going to go out on a limb here and say: TROLL ALERT

What difference does it make that he has only two posts here...he may have had hundreds on other gun forums. You only have 66 posts...you must be a troll.

Calling, "Troll alert", is pointless, childish, and serves no purpose. If you think he is a troll, DO NOT RESPOND TO HIS POST. A controversial posting is not "trolling", it is providing input for stimulating debate.

That being said, my experience with a Russian 1943 Mosin-Nagant carbine, is that it is difficult to operate (very stiff bolt compared to the M98 Mauser), took excessive pressure to load with stripper clips, had terrible triggers, very ugly finish on the utilitarian wood. Other than that, they only cost what they are worth.

March 21, 2011, 12:02 AM	#1
argyle1812 Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Location: washington Posts: 34	Mosin Nagants Overrated I'm so tired of people talking about how Mosin Nagant rifles are the best thing ever. My father and i owned a 1929 MO mosin and a 1931 MO mosin both being hex receiver obviously. My father is one of the best marksmen i know and i dont consider myself a slouch. the absolute best grouping we achieved at 100 yards was about a 3.5 inch group. Not what i call a tack driver by any stretch of the imagination. Plus the fact that my fathers rifle always had feed problems despite being very well cleaned after every firing. I'm not saying Mosins are bad rifles i just think they are very overrated in every category. After all does ANY RUSSIAN gun have a reputation as super accurate out of the box?

March 21, 2011, 12:13 AM	#2
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	Considering you only have two posts and this was your first post, am going to go out on a limb here and say: TROLL ALERT Now that I properly identified you, let me answer your points one by one: 1) No one here to the best of my knowledge has said that the Mosin Nagant is the best rifle ever made. The Mosin Nagant was cheaply made, and during the war years the fit and finish was "rough" at best. However, the rifle is very rouged, can take a lot of punishment (as WWII showed) and keeps on going. 2) Accuracy is not going to be the same as a modern rifle, however, given the thousands of rounds and rough conditions that these rifles endured, they are fairly accurate considering the abuse they received. 3) The Mosin Nagant is not even the nicest rifle to shoot as far as recoil is concerned, but the 7.62x54R is a wonderful round, and I enjoy shooting it in my Mosin Nagant. Feeding problems? It's called rim lock...look it up, it is easy to solve. 4) What the Mosin Nagant has going for it is that it is a historic rifle with a great legacy (helped win WWII), and they are found dirt cheap...making them a great value for your money. If you don't have a lot of money and don't mind an old used rifle, you can't beat the Mosin Nagant's quality at that price point. And last but not least....HOW CAN A $65 USD RIFLE THAT WORKS BE OVERRATED? __________________ Thank God for Guns! Last edited by osallent; March 21, 2011 at 12:20 AM.

March 21, 2011, 12:23 AM	#5
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	I'll add one more thing to my answer above.....another of the charms of the Mosin Nagant is that because it is so inexpensive, you can do things to it that you would not dare do to another rifle....such as refinishing the stock or repainting the barrel. These are fun projects that can teach you a lot about gun smithing, woodworking, etc. __________________ Thank God for Guns!

March 21, 2011, 12:24 AM	#6
argyle1812 Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Location: washington Posts: 34	mosin overrated I don't appreciate being called a troll. Also i wasn't saying this forum specifically thought the mosin was great that just seems to be the consensus online. Also i love the 7.62 x 54 round just don't like the gun that shoots its. except a dragunov. BTW i know about rimlock but to me a military rifle should be reliable out of the box.

March 21, 2011, 12:46 AM	#8
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	Simply put, sounds like a poor workman blaming his tools. __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

March 21, 2011, 12:15 AM	#3
Usertag Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: Louisville Posts: 261	People only like them because they are cheap. The gun itself you can get for $70. and 500 rounds of surplus 7.62x54mmR is about $100.

March 21, 2011, 12:19 AM	#4
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	I killed a 200lb. doe at over 200yrds. with a mosin nagant and 174gr.S&B Ammo. You were getting 3.5'' groups which isnt too bad. Quality ammo would probably do better. Mosin's arent the be all end all some of them arent very accurate and some of them are very accurate. Either way what do you expect for $100.

March 21, 2011, 12:59 AM	#9
argyle1812 Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Location: washington Posts: 34	mosin overrated Let me restate my position a bit. I understand where most of you are coming from. for 100 bucks i agree it is for sure not a bad rifle. But i never said it was just overrated. also my dads feed problem wasn't with a stripper clip it would jam up when trying to chamber a new round. lastly 3.5 moa at 100 yards might not be bad but my 190 dollar 1930 VZ 24 mauser will do 2 inch all day with surplus ammo.

March 21, 2011, 01:05 AM	#10
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	How does it jam??????????? __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

March 21, 2011, 01:09 AM	#12
argyle1812 Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Location: washington Posts: 34	mosin overrated it jams when he tries to chamber a new round somehow it binds and wont chamber. BTW the guns were replaced about a month ago with my mauser and a enfield NO4 mk1*

March 21, 2011, 01:13 AM	#13
osallent Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2011 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 116	I read up on rim lock and how to avoid it before I went to shoot my Mosin Nagant for the first time. With the knowledge I gained from reading about rim lock online, I was able to properly load my Mosin Nagant and I had not one single failure. __________________ Thank God for Guns!

March 21, 2011, 02:53 AM	#14
ejhc11 Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2010 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 110	Quantity vs Quality You are not too familiar with Russian/Soviet/Russian ideology? Make more of everything is better than less of higher quality. In WWI and WWII they sacrificed their soldiers to the front line not to win but to used up their enemies bullets. Make it cheap and plenty, if it turns out to be a good product then great. Mosins are great, its for people who want to enjoy shooting and not spend a fortune at it.

March 21, 2011, 07:25 AM	#16
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	The M/N is a fun rifle to shoot. It is inexpensive to buy. Most of them were used in one of the most horrific conflicts this planet has seen. As far as rating them goes, I don't immediately recall any such ratings. If you do not enjoy yours, that is your experience. Your experience is as valid as that of anybody else. Sounds like your interrupter might have been sticking a bit if you experienced rimlock with this design. Vigorous extraction and working the bolt with determination sometimes will nudge the interrupter back into action.

March 21, 2011, 07:30 AM	#17
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	I'm a new shooter so have no educated opinion on this topic so I'll offer my personal one. I fell in love with the look of the rifle. I like the fact that it is not a reproduction and yes I do like walking out of the gun store fully loaded with weapon, accessories and ammo for under $200. Currently my shot group looks more like a shot gun pattern than a rifle shot group but that will come with more practice (do date I've only been to the range once with it). Best gun ever? Not on your life. It is, however, fun as hell to shoot and I will take responsibility for the things I'm not good at yet. This will probably be my gate way drug leading me to better, more modern and more expensive weapons. For all of these reasons it'll probably remain my favorite gun, my little Aleksandra.

March 21, 2011, 08:10 AM	#18
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	Jamming while attempting to chamber a round, not when trying to extract a round, IS the rim lock you stated you knew all about. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

March 21, 2011, 08:28 AM	#19
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	I'm in the group thinking, "How do you over-rate an 89 dollar rifle?" Most of the threads on Mosins are from folks that are wondering just what they will get for their less-than-100bucks rifle. For those folks, I usually answer that you CAN get a rifle easily capable of 2MOA accuracy (see my previously posted pics) that is ballistically equal to the wonderful 30-06 cartridge. That's not bad at all. I would never say it's the "best ever", even in the mil-surp category. I would take nearly ANY Mauser over it, and have heard some pretty amazing things about the accuracy of some of the Swiss rifles... but, even by your own statement, we're talking at least DOUBLE the price of the Mosin.. sometimes SEVERAL times the price. Quality is usually relative to price. The Mosin has its quirks, and they can be frustrating, but once you get all that sorted out, I can't think of a better "truck" gun for nearly any kind of hunting. Well, except quail.. That having been said, everyone has an opinion, and I appreciate you sharing yours. We all don't have to agree... makes for interesting discussions. Now, about that Taurus Judge.....

March 21, 2011, 08:50 AM	#20
BusGunner007 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Upper Left Coast Posts: 2,116	Hoping the OP comes back into his thread. It would be good to re-start the 'newbie' status with a 'welcome', even though his first post was a little brash... A lot of people may get some good info about the M-N, or pass some on to the OP with some links. So, 'welcome', OP. Don't be scared away or shy. Come back in and lets use the forum for its intended purpose - to learn more. __________________ "...if you're not havin' fun, you're workin'..."

March 21, 2011, 09:00 AM	#22
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	I have a MN 1946 carbine. The ones made after WW2 are in significantly better condition. I shoot it all the time and always hit what I'm aiming at. Considering I paid less than $90, I never really considered whether or not it would fire MOA.

March 21, 2011, 09:05 AM	#23
kx592 Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Posts: 645	Twins: check your head space. These ol' toys are great for what they are, there the best multi purpose tool I have in the house.