What would you do?

Desertfox · October 28, 2006, 04:13 AM

Monday, I was watching some nice deer action from my treestand. A little buck was chasing a couple does around and grunting like a big buck.

Fun to watch, no doubt. One of the does comes under my stand and I see a wound on her back from another archer placing a bad shot high. Cut her open and she has a 5 inch by 3 inch open wound.
I decide to harvest her instead of letting her walk. I sink a muzzy into her quartering away at 10 yards. She runs 35 yards and piles up.
I wait for about an hour, watching the deer activity around me and get down. I tag her, gut her, check her in at the check station and drop her off at the local butcher shop.
Friday around lunch time the game warden is dinging my door bell. I am working nights so I wake up finally and answer the door. He tells me he has confiscated my deer. He says I shot it with a rifle and stuck an arrow thru the hole. He says no way an arrow could have done that much damage.
He says he is going to have the deer x-rayed and when he sees the metal fragments from the bullet he is going to give me a ticket.

Now he is driving around with my deer in the back of his truck. I was courteous and explained that he had a job to do and I understood. I assured him he would find no bullet fragments and everything was on the up and up.

He left my house with the promise he would be bringing me a ticket to sign.

I will call him today and inquire as to his findings and my deer's whereabouts.

I do not break game laws and am a law abiding citizen. He will find no bullet fragments. The deer was shot with an arrow.

Any suggestions? Never take a deer to the processor?

swampdog · October 28, 2006, 06:31 AM

I certainly wouldn't take one to that processor. Those muzzy broadheads can do considerable damage if they strike heavy bone. I'm talking shattered ribs and holes through the scapula. At 10 yards, it could certainly create a "rifle-like" wound. You'll have your day in court, if you do get a ticket. I'd be thinking about a professional witness, possibly one who works for Muzzy. I'd try to at least get some letters and possible some photos. Contact the company. They might be interested in knowing their customers are being arrested because of the "devastating" damage done by their broadheads.

Hopefully, after the deer is x-rayed, your problems will be over. Most of our wardens around here are likeable, dedicated, hardworking people. I know one in particular who might be accused of being overzealous, though. An examination by a state wildlife biologist should clear things up for you.

If worst comes to worst, it would be worth it to me to get a lawyer and fight it. My hunting privelges and good name are very valuable to me.

If you are cleared, make sure you get your deer back, or get compensation for it. If it happened to me, my local butcher would get very little business from local hunters after I got done badmouthing him. What comes around, goes around, especially in small towns.

Good Luck

Clayfish · October 28, 2006, 07:59 AM

I never take a deer to the processor unless it's quartered and in a cooler. I take the meat that's really desirable like the backstrap and lions and keep them myself. Around here unless you ask specifically for those cuts you might not get them back. I age my deer in a cooler too. Keep Ice on them for about three days draining and adding new ice everyday. I certainly wouldn't use that butcher shop again. It will all come out in the wash. Unless the warden can prove that you shot the deer with bullet fragments there is absolutly nothing he can do. You may have to have you day in court but I would think it would be worth it. Good luck.

Art Eatman · October 28, 2006, 08:07 AM

My question would be whether or not I got my tag back, or did I just get "shafted" by the deal? Odds are the meat's ruined, regardless of the findings.

I always butchered my own deer. That's what a garage is for, or a tree at hunt camp. Not to diss the commercial folks, but I want Bambi disassembled MY way, not somebody else's way.

Art

ZeroJunk · October 28, 2006, 10:40 AM

You guys should see the processor I use.It's an old tobacco barn with a walk in cooler attached.The old farmer hangs the deer up under the barn shed and it takes him 12 minutes to skin and gut it,whie he is talking about fishing.Takes a water hose and washes the blood down into a ditch.Hides are burning in some old barrels across the path.He cuts the meat up on a band saw or mixes some beef fat with it and grinds it up.Then shrink wraps it for $40.Couple of good ol boys are sitting on a nail keg spitting tobacco juice and saying"hey,is this place USDA approved."Gotta love it.Hasn't killed any of us,yet.Back on topic,sounds like an over zealous young game warden to me.Hate you lost your deer.Rifle wounds and arrow wounds are quite different regardless of broadhead.The massive shock hemmorage is not there.If he had let the processor open him up he should have been able to tell,or he's not a very experienced warden.

rem33 · October 28, 2006, 11:10 AM

PHP Code:


			
Odds are the meat's ruined, regardless of the findings.

Shot a real nice Mulie several years back that had been wounded. It was the 3rd day of season and we figured he had been shot in one hind quarter the first day. I didn't know that he was hurt when I shot him. After a day or two hanging the meat smelled like something dead. It was bad for sure, so I lost my meat that year.
Since I have ask around and was told that animals wounded will not be good meat if the wound is very old. Infections and/or that poisons released will ruin the meat. I am no expert this is just my experience and what I was told.
Fish and Game would have given me another tag if I had called them. I didn't know that, so just lost out on my deer that year.
I understand when I read guys killing and tagging wounded animals but I won't again.

kwkoch · October 28, 2006, 09:55 PM

+10 on keeping your cool, knowing i was innocent and knowing i was about to loose my tag and/or deer i would probably have gone off the deep end. especially having been woken up after my night shift.
good luck man
++ on processing your own i do everything my self all the way down to the jerky and burgers.

Desertfox · October 31, 2006, 05:40 AM

OK, First off, I always process my own deer. This one was a donated deer to a family that needs a little assistance in the meat department. I was getting the deer processed and packaged for them. My first doe this year is already in my freezer and belly.
Second, Mister Friendly the Game Warden finally answered his phone yesterday. He said my deer was cleared. He also said he was impressed with the cut on impact and damage done by that muzzy.
No appology but, I will take it. The deer never left the cooler at the processor. The guy brought a metal detector to the processor and cleared my deer and busted 4 others.
I am not sure how he will ticket the other poor saps but he released mine.

Finally, How can I blame the processor for the hassle from the game warden?
He is a good guy and had a bad run from this warden. He called the state capitol and talked to the chief warden and is getting some mercy.

Clayfish · October 31, 2006, 09:36 AM

I'm glad you got cleared. It's a good thing that the deer never left the cooler and that the needy family will get the deer. It sounds like the warden walked in and checked every deer there. It sounded at first like the processor ratted you out but it's now clear he didn't. It stinks you had to go through the hastle but as you origionaly said, you did nothing wrong. Keep using those muzzys.

FrontSight · October 31, 2006, 01:53 PM

R U Kidding?? What kind of an idiot, novice, inexperienced game warden has never seen the damage an arrow causes, Muzzy or otherwise?? Did he just get his badge, and was it passed down in his grandfather's will? When he comes back with an apology, tell him a guy from NEW YORK CITY is laughing at his ignorance right now, and that I said he should be ashamed of himself for not being more knowledgeable about his job. That is his business, for chirssakes, and your tax & license dollars are wasted on him!

rem33 · October 31, 2006, 05:26 PM

[PHP][R U Kidding?? What kind of an idiot, novice, inexperienced game warden has never seen the damage an arrow causes, Muzzy or otherwise?? Did he just get his badge, and was it passed down in his grandfather's will?/PHP]

PHP Code:


			
The guy brought a metal detector to the processor and cleared my deer and busted 4 others.

Not agreeing with the wardens tactics or not but looks like it worked times 4, and got him in the cooler with a metal detector.
Hats off to you Desertfox on giving that meat away and wrapped too.

Edit, Sure be glad when I get this copy, paste, quote thing figured out.

taylorce1 · October 31, 2006, 05:47 PM

Don't blame the Game Processor, I'm sure that he has to report anything that is suspect to Game Officials. He is just trying to make sure that he is operating legally and protecting his butt. On the other hand it would take a very stupid person to take game illegally and then have it professionaly processed. Sounds like there was 4 pretty stupid so called hunters. I just can't beleive that the check station didn't document the kill and give you something stating that the wound was already there or keep the carcass right then to examine.

DF I don 't know the regulations where you hunt but here in Colorado we have to professionaly process any game that is to be donated. Do you have the same regulations?

castnblast · October 31, 2006, 06:16 PM

I was afraid they were going to come back and claim the prior wound done by another hunter was from a rifle, then you would be up a creek for something that was in no way your fault. About 16 years ago, I had Boss Hog, and his side Kick Cletus (Sherriff's mind you, not Game Wardens) come on our lease because the dumkopf who was renting a house said we were trespassing. Funny, I had a lease agreement in my truck. She called on us because she didn't like the gun noise and was basically...a witch... Anyway, Cletus proceeded to write me a ticket for the "whitewing doves" we had in our possession. He said they were out of season... First off, I was a teenager, but new better than to be a smart butt to a policeman. That's a one way ticket to jail. I politely told him he was wrong...the doves...and I quote "they have white on their wings" were on the tips of the feathers, not the white racing stripes that are on both wings were clearly mourning doves. Make a long story short, I demanded that he contact the local game warden, and told him it was not within his authority to write up a percieved game violation...(amazing how smart you are with one semester of criminal investigation under your belt when you are only 19)...Anyway GW gets there and clears us stating they are mourning doves.

Irritating... Key point here is to understand and know your rights. Keep your cool as you did, and be respectfull. Start yelling and cussing, and guess what? You may be going to jail because they can...Besides, 99% of the Game Wardens I've ever come in contact with were really great. We want them out there. If you look at that stat, it fits the population. Approximately 1% of the population are 100% bonified *******s. Sounds like you just ran into the one in your area.

FrontSight · October 31, 2006, 06:21 PM

rem33, not saying that method doesn't work or that he's dumb for doing that - i'm saying that he's ignorant (in the true dictionary meaning of "un-informed") about arrow damage, and he's a game warden, what the heck is up with that??! That's like being a CPA who does tax returns and not knowing that one of the tax forms is called a 1040...

rem33 · October 31, 2006, 07:20 PM

Scrap5000,
I think we misunderstood each other, I was thinking "maybe the warden didn't really think a rifle had been used", andit was his excuse to use the metal detector.

FirstFreedom · October 31, 2006, 09:14 PM

Glad that worked out for ya. Dang, hope the warden doesn't check with my processor - part of my broadhead is stuck into the spine. I can see them using the metal detector and writing a ticket, and me having to prove that the metal fragments are the broadhead, not a bullet.

kwkoch · November 1, 2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Now he is driving around with my deer in the back of his truck. I was courteous and explained that he had a job to do and I understood. I assured him he would find no bullet fragments and everything was on the up and up.

we all thought that your deer was wasted cause it was in the bed of the truck. if it never left the cooler, its not as bad but still sucks being accused of something you didnt do

Desertfox · November 2, 2006, 05:28 AM

Thanks for the posts. He made it seem like he had my deer when he said "I confiscated your deer".
In game warden terms, this means he hung a tag on it in the cooler.

By the way, there were over 100 deer at the processor at the time.
Since the hold-up from the game warden, Muzzle loader season started.
There are almost another 100 deer there now. Processor said he would try to have my deer ready by Monday.

As far as weather he is stupid, maybe he was looking for a reaction from me.
Maybe he just didn't recognize a 10 yard, quartering away, Muzzy moment.

Going for big daddy buck with my muzzle loader tomorrow. Good luck to y'all and thanks again for the vote of confidence.
Skin em and cut em up at home. It just makes sense.

October 28, 2006, 04:13 AM	#1
Desertfox Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2006 Location: Arkansas-Oklahoma Line Posts: 336	What would you do? Monday, I was watching some nice deer action from my treestand. A little buck was chasing a couple does around and grunting like a big buck. Fun to watch, no doubt. One of the does comes under my stand and I see a wound on her back from another archer placing a bad shot high. Cut her open and she has a 5 inch by 3 inch open wound. I decide to harvest her instead of letting her walk. I sink a muzzy into her quartering away at 10 yards. She runs 35 yards and piles up. I wait for about an hour, watching the deer activity around me and get down. I tag her, gut her, check her in at the check station and drop her off at the local butcher shop. Friday around lunch time the game warden is dinging my door bell. I am working nights so I wake up finally and answer the door. He tells me he has confiscated my deer. He says I shot it with a rifle and stuck an arrow thru the hole. He says no way an arrow could have done that much damage. He says he is going to have the deer x-rayed and when he sees the metal fragments from the bullet he is going to give me a ticket. Now he is driving around with my deer in the back of his truck. I was courteous and explained that he had a job to do and I understood. I assured him he would find no bullet fragments and everything was on the up and up. He left my house with the promise he would be bringing me a ticket to sign. I will call him today and inquire as to his findings and my deer's whereabouts. I do not break game laws and am a law abiding citizen. He will find no bullet fragments. The deer was shot with an arrow. Any suggestions? Never take a deer to the processor? __________________ Teach a kid to respect wildlife, then teach a kid to hunt and fish.

October 28, 2006, 11:10 AM	#6
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	PHP Code: `Odds are the meat's ruined, regardless of the findings.` Shot a real nice Mulie several years back that had been wounded. It was the 3rd day of season and we figured he had been shot in one hind quarter the first day. I didn't know that he was hurt when I shot him. After a day or two hanging the meat smelled like something dead. It was bad for sure, so I lost my meat that year. Since I have ask around and was told that animals wounded will not be good meat if the wound is very old. Infections and/or that poisons released will ruin the meat. I am no expert this is just my experience and what I was told. Fish and Game would have given me another tag if I had called them. I didn't know that, so just lost out on my deer that year. I understand when I read guys killing and tagging wounded animals but I won't again.

October 28, 2006, 09:55 PM	#7
kwkoch Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2005 Location: indiana Posts: 157	+10 on keeping your cool, knowing i was innocent and knowing i was about to loose my tag and/or deer i would probably have gone off the deep end. especially having been woken up after my night shift. good luck man ++ on processing your own i do everything my self all the way down to the jerky and burgers. __________________ NRA Life Member

October 31, 2006, 05:40 AM	#8
Desertfox Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2006 Location: Arkansas-Oklahoma Line Posts: 336	OK, First off, I always process my own deer. This one was a donated deer to a family that needs a little assistance in the meat department. I was getting the deer processed and packaged for them. My first doe this year is already in my freezer and belly. Second, Mister Friendly the Game Warden finally answered his phone yesterday. He said my deer was cleared. He also said he was impressed with the cut on impact and damage done by that muzzy. No appology but, I will take it. The deer never left the cooler at the processor. The guy brought a metal detector to the processor and cleared my deer and busted 4 others. I am not sure how he will ticket the other poor saps but he released mine. Finally, How can I blame the processor for the hassle from the game warden? He is a good guy and had a bad run from this warden. He called the state capitol and talked to the chief warden and is getting some mercy. __________________ Teach a kid to respect wildlife, then teach a kid to hunt and fish.

October 31, 2006, 05:26 PM	#11
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	[PHP][R U Kidding?? What kind of an idiot, novice, inexperienced game warden has never seen the damage an arrow causes, Muzzy or otherwise?? Did he just get his badge, and was it passed down in his grandfather's will?/PHP] PHP Code: `The guy brought a metal detector to the processor and cleared my deer and busted 4 others.` Not agreeing with the wardens tactics or not but looks like it worked times 4, and got him in the cooler with a metal detector. Hats off to you Desertfox on giving that meat away and wrapped too. Edit, Sure be glad when I get this copy, paste, quote thing figured out.

October 28, 2006, 06:31 AM	#2
swampdog Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2006 Location: Dismal Swamp, NC Posts: 338	I certainly wouldn't take one to that processor. Those muzzy broadheads can do considerable damage if they strike heavy bone. I'm talking shattered ribs and holes through the scapula. At 10 yards, it could certainly create a "rifle-like" wound. You'll have your day in court, if you do get a ticket. I'd be thinking about a professional witness, possibly one who works for Muzzy. I'd try to at least get some letters and possible some photos. Contact the company. They might be interested in knowing their customers are being arrested because of the "devastating" damage done by their broadheads. Hopefully, after the deer is x-rayed, your problems will be over. Most of our wardens around here are likeable, dedicated, hardworking people. I know one in particular who might be accused of being overzealous, though. An examination by a state wildlife biologist should clear things up for you. If worst comes to worst, it would be worth it to me to get a lawyer and fight it. My hunting privelges and good name are very valuable to me. If you are cleared, make sure you get your deer back, or get compensation for it. If it happened to me, my local butcher would get very little business from local hunters after I got done badmouthing him. What comes around, goes around, especially in small towns. Good Luck

October 28, 2006, 07:59 AM	#3
Clayfish Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2005 Location: Valdosta, GA Posts: 953	I never take a deer to the processor unless it's quartered and in a cooler. I take the meat that's really desirable like the backstrap and lions and keep them myself. Around here unless you ask specifically for those cuts you might not get them back. I age my deer in a cooler too. Keep Ice on them for about three days draining and adding new ice everyday. I certainly wouldn't use that butcher shop again. It will all come out in the wash. Unless the warden can prove that you shot the deer with bullet fragments there is absolutly nothing he can do. You may have to have you day in court but I would think it would be worth it. Good luck.

October 28, 2006, 08:07 AM	#4
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	My question would be whether or not I got my tag back, or did I just get "shafted" by the deal? Odds are the meat's ruined, regardless of the findings. I always butchered my own deer. That's what a garage is for, or a tree at hunt camp. Not to diss the commercial folks, but I want Bambi disassembled MY way, not somebody else's way. Art

October 28, 2006, 10:40 AM	#5
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	You guys should see the processor I use.It's an old tobacco barn with a walk in cooler attached.The old farmer hangs the deer up under the barn shed and it takes him 12 minutes to skin and gut it,whie he is talking about fishing.Takes a water hose and washes the blood down into a ditch.Hides are burning in some old barrels across the path.He cuts the meat up on a band saw or mixes some beef fat with it and grinds it up.Then shrink wraps it for $40.Couple of good ol boys are sitting on a nail keg spitting tobacco juice and saying"hey,is this place USDA approved."Gotta love it.Hasn't killed any of us,yet.Back on topic,sounds like an over zealous young game warden to me.Hate you lost your deer.Rifle wounds and arrow wounds are quite different regardless of broadhead.The massive shock hemmorage is not there.If he had let the processor open him up he should have been able to tell,or he's not a very experienced warden.

October 31, 2006, 09:36 AM	#9
Clayfish Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2005 Location: Valdosta, GA Posts: 953	I'm glad you got cleared. It's a good thing that the deer never left the cooler and that the needy family will get the deer. It sounds like the warden walked in and checked every deer there. It sounded at first like the processor ratted you out but it's now clear he didn't. It stinks you had to go through the hastle but as you origionaly said, you did nothing wrong. Keep using those muzzys.

October 31, 2006, 01:53 PM	#10
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	R U Kidding?? What kind of an idiot, novice, inexperienced game warden has never seen the damage an arrow causes, Muzzy or otherwise?? Did he just get his badge, and was it passed down in his grandfather's will? When he comes back with an apology, tell him a guy from NEW YORK CITY is laughing at his ignorance right now, and that I said he should be ashamed of himself for not being more knowledgeable about his job. That is his business, for chirssakes, and your tax & license dollars are wasted on him!

October 31, 2006, 05:47 PM	#12
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	Don't blame the Game Processor, I'm sure that he has to report anything that is suspect to Game Officials. He is just trying to make sure that he is operating legally and protecting his butt. On the other hand it would take a very stupid person to take game illegally and then have it professionaly processed. Sounds like there was 4 pretty stupid so called hunters. I just can't beleive that the check station didn't document the kill and give you something stating that the wound was already there or keep the carcass right then to examine. DF I don 't know the regulations where you hunt but here in Colorado we have to professionaly process any game that is to be donated. Do you have the same regulations?

October 31, 2006, 06:16 PM	#13
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	I was afraid they were going to come back and claim the prior wound done by another hunter was from a rifle, then you would be up a creek for something that was in no way your fault. About 16 years ago, I had Boss Hog, and his side Kick Cletus (Sherriff's mind you, not Game Wardens) come on our lease because the dumkopf who was renting a house said we were trespassing. Funny, I had a lease agreement in my truck. She called on us because she didn't like the gun noise and was basically...a witch... Anyway, Cletus proceeded to write me a ticket for the "whitewing doves" we had in our possession. He said they were out of season... First off, I was a teenager, but new better than to be a smart butt to a policeman. That's a one way ticket to jail. I politely told him he was wrong...the doves...and I quote "they have white on their wings" were on the tips of the feathers, not the white racing stripes that are on both wings were clearly mourning doves. Make a long story short, I demanded that he contact the local game warden, and told him it was not within his authority to write up a percieved game violation...(amazing how smart you are with one semester of criminal investigation under your belt when you are only 19)...Anyway GW gets there and clears us stating they are mourning doves. Irritating... Key point here is to understand and know your rights. Keep your cool as you did, and be respectfull. Start yelling and cussing, and guess what? You may be going to jail because they can...Besides, 99% of the Game Wardens I've ever come in contact with were really great. We want them out there. If you look at that stat, it fits the population. Approximately 1% of the population are 100% bonified *******s. Sounds like you just ran into the one in your area. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

October 31, 2006, 06:21 PM	#14
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	rem33, not saying that method doesn't work or that he's dumb for doing that - i'm saying that he's ignorant (in the true dictionary meaning of "un-informed") about arrow damage, and he's a game warden, what the heck is up with that??! That's like being a CPA who does tax returns and not knowing that one of the tax forms is called a 1040...

October 31, 2006, 07:20 PM	#15
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	Scrap5000, I think we misunderstood each other, I was thinking "maybe the warden didn't really think a rifle had been used", andit was his excuse to use the metal detector.

October 31, 2006, 09:14 PM	#16
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Glad that worked out for ya. Dang, hope the warden doesn't check with my processor - part of my broadhead is stuck into the spine. I can see them using the metal detector and writing a ticket, and me having to prove that the metal fragments are the broadhead, not a bullet.

November 2, 2006, 05:28 AM	#18
Desertfox Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2006 Location: Arkansas-Oklahoma Line Posts: 336	Thanks for the posts. He made it seem like he had my deer when he said "I confiscated your deer". In game warden terms, this means he hung a tag on it in the cooler. By the way, there were over 100 deer at the processor at the time. Since the hold-up from the game warden, Muzzle loader season started. There are almost another 100 deer there now. Processor said he would try to have my deer ready by Monday. As far as weather he is stupid, maybe he was looking for a reaction from me. Maybe he just didn't recognize a 10 yard, quartering away, Muzzy moment. Going for big daddy buck with my muzzle loader tomorrow. Good luck to y'all and thanks again for the vote of confidence. Skin em and cut em up at home. It just makes sense. __________________ Teach a kid to respect wildlife, then teach a kid to hunt and fish.

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