Which small CCW 9mm (10 or better round capacity)

[chaim]

So, after my weight loss (over 100LBS), I do not find the larger guns I used to like to carry to be as workable as they were. I like tucked IWB when possible, IWB with a cover garment the rest of the time. My compact service pistols (SIG P229, CZ PCR/P01) that were my main carries (when visiting a state where I can carry) don't work at all tucked anymore (they weren't ideal tucked before) and seem a bit big for me now with anything lighter than a winter coat or heavy sweater for a cover garment. My smaller carry that I used for tucked, my S&W M&P 40c is a little too big now for tucked (it looks like I have a tumor), and is the largest I feel comfortable with a light cover garment (untucked shirt). I find my J-frame sized revolvers (Colt King Cobra/new model, Taurus 856) and SIG P290RS now come with me most often when visiting a state where I can carry, but I prefer at least 10 rounds.

One option is to continue experimenting with my 1st gen M&P 40c, once I'm used to it with my new shrunken size it probably does conceal well enough (even tucked) that most people won't notice anything. For a 9mm option, if I get used to that size, I'll take a look at the Taurus G3c and Glock 26 (and similar), but there are several good options now in a 10 round micro 9mm.

I live in MD, it will probably be another 6 months before the new S&W Shield Plus and Ruger Max9 make the MD State Police Roster (i.e. are legal for sale in MD). Though, I am not in a category that can get a MD carry permit (business owner, judge, cop are nearly shall issue, there is a possibility for a lawyer or pharmacist), so I only carry (a couple times a month) when in a state where I can carry on my UT non-resident permit. I have the aforementioned guns that will work, and I have a Kel Tec Pf-9 (I don't ever carry it since it is borderline reliable, but with some work it could possibly be reliable enough). So, I don't have to be in a hurry.

The SIG P365 and SA Hellcat are interesting options that I can get today (I would trade my P290, my S&W 442, and my Pf-9, likely making it effectively free and possibly/hopefully with money back).

I went to a local gun store that has the current Shield (essentially the same size), a Hellcat and a P365. Just in the gun store, not firing it at a range, I liked the Hellcat best. It fit my hand decently (though small), had a better trigger than the others and seemed very easy to conceal. In width and length it is closest in size to my SIG P290RS which may have helped. The Shield was my second choice, a little bigger so it wouldn't conceal quite as easily (small enough that it would only be a potential issue for pocket carry, for which they all may be a tad too heavy anyway), fit my hand much better, but I wasn't much of a fan of the trigger (the Shield Plus has a better trigger so I do look forward to checking them out once they are available in MD). I really wanted to like the P365, I like SIGs, I have 3 and want more, and it would be replacing a SIG I like a lot (the P290RS). The trigger, meh. The fit in my hand just didn't feel right, though I look forward to renting one at a range if I can to see it in practice. For the sights, the SIG and Shield were both OK, I really liked the U with front night sight on the Hellcat.

So, anyone with first-hand experience with a couple of these who can tell my why they picked what they picked?

Another consideration for me is mag availability (once the craziness is done anyway). I live in MD where we are limited to 10 round mags. However, under MD law I can go to another state and buy any size mag I want and bring it into the state as long as it is for my personal use. I can't buy or sell any mags here over 10 rounds, I can't have someone bring it to me or mail it to me, and I can't give it to anyone, but owning and possessing them is totally legal. So, I need mags that (eventually) won't be too hard to find so I can buy some extended mags that aren't just an empty finger extension but actually hold more than 10 rounds.

I know the Shield Plus is too new to have anything out now. But eventually, mags should be easy to find (the earlier Shields and M&P mags are nearly as easy to find as Glock mags). The SIG 365 may be a tad harder, but not too bad. The Hellcat has been out for a while. How hard is it to find mags, either 11 round or 13 round? The Ruger is also new, but how hard is it to find mags for their other models? I rarely see them for my LCP, but then, I am rarely looking.

[eflyguy]

So may I ask why you think you need to carry 10rds or better?

Are you planning to get into an extended shoot-out? In the matches I shoot, it's one shot per target.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by eflyguy

So may I ask why you think you need to carry 10rds or better?

Are you planning to get into an extended shoot-out? In the matches I shoot, it's one shot per target.

People don’t always stop being a threat after one shot. Add to that the possibility of criminals working as pairs, the possibility of missing due to stress and adrenaline, rounds that hit not stopping an assailant due to a number of factors (including the presence of drugs in their system), and to me having a defined amount of capacity is more about preparation than a desire or intent to get into a shoot out.

I often see people say you’re not likely to need 10 or more rounds. I agree, you’re also not likely to need the firearm in the first place. To some level we’re all preparing for realistically rare events. If a person finds they can carry a pistol that has a certain capacity without difficulty, then it seems like capacity is just an added benefit. The pistols mentioned here are still quite small.


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[TunnelRat]

Around me P365 magazines are fairly easy to find, especially lately (I think they recently got a new order). The Shield magazines from the original version are usually around as well. I can’t remember seeing the Hellcat magazines and the Shield Plus is still pretty new, as well as the Max.

I owned a Shield in the past and have a P365XL now. I found both of them to be quite shootable. My P365XL doesn’t have a great trigger either, but I don’t find it a big hindrance when shooting. I do find it takes some time getting used to shooting it.


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[Alan0354]

No mention of Glock 26?

[raimius]

I can recommend the Glock 43x, as well. The Shield Arms mags bring it from 10 to 15+1. For an East Coast resident, having a couple factory 10rd mags might be handy, due to poor laws...

[Alan0354]

I did a lot of research before buying the Glock 26. 10 rounds is a HUGE difference from 6 rounds no matter how you look at it, it is 10/6 = 166% difference!!!

I am an advocate of taking a split second to aim before shooting, problem is people go bang bang bang by the "feel" of the gun just because they have 17 rounds. In tense situation, your hands might be shaking. Even if you aim, you likely miss. You need all the rounds you can have.

[mk70ss]

Springfield Armory Hellcat

[eflyguy]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

To some level we’re all preparing for realistically rare events.

Thanks for proving my point.

I'll take my chances with 7 well-placed shots that I practice frequently over hauling around a cannon and 30 rounds all day long.

I can't think of an instance where an armed assailant had "backup" in recent history.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by eflyguy

I'll take my chances with 7 well-placed shots that I practice frequently over hauling around a cannon and 30 rounds all day long.

You can still place shots well if you have more of them available. Marksmanship and capacity aren't mutually exclusive. The OP mentions a SIG P365, a Ruger Max, a Shield Plus, and a Springfield Hellcat. None of the those are remotely approaching hauling around a cannon.

Originally Posted by elfyguy

I can't think of an instance where an armed assailant had "backup" in recent history.

Criminals don't always work alone. That doesn't seem a hard concept to grasp to me.

If you are happy with your carry choice, more power to you. I think the notion that carrying any of the pistols the OP mentioned is the equivalent of looking for a shootout or hauling around a cannon is a bit of an exaggeration. 7 is reasonable, but 10 or 11 is apparently extreme? Okay then.

[RETG]

Another thing to note is that shooting targets that don't breath is a lot different than shooting a living breathing human; especially, if that living breathing human is shooting at you.

I carry 11 rounds in my H&K P30SK; knowing I probably will never need all 11 and in fact, after retiring, understanding my need for even one is low if considering firing back at a living human (four legged animals are excluded; and then, I believe three has been the max).

[dpadams6]

Originally Posted by eflyguy

So may I ask why you think you need to carry 10rds or better?

Are you planning to get into an extended shoot-out? In the matches I shoot, it's one shot per target.

You can never have enough. Multiple suspects and the majority of people have a very low hit probability, I'll take more then 10 round mags, any day, plus an extra mag or two.

[tex45acp]

chaim,

"I have the aforementioned guns that will work, and I have a Kel Tec Pf-9 (I don't ever carry it since it is borderline reliable, but with some work it could possibly be reliable enough)."

Sorry to hear that about your PF9. I have been carrying one in a pocket holster since they were introduced. I previously carried the P-11, but the PF9 fit the bill much better. I have had zero malfunctions with either of my Keltecs. Heres the way I carry mine as a primary or back up to my 1911!!

[jonnyc]

43X

[jmr40]

I chose the Sig 365. My wife and I carry identical guns. But less than 10 rounds wouldn't be a deal killer for me. I prefer it, but wouldn't feel naked with a G43 or Ruger LC9s holding 7-9 rounds. They do make mag extensions for both of those getting you closer to 10.

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by mk70ss

Springfield Armory Hellcat

Too bad, I don't think it's available in Kalif.

[Pistoler0]

H&K P30SK

You have the option of a flush 10 rd magazine, or there are larger 13 rd ones.

Congrats on the weight loss! 100+ is incredible, good job!!

[dgludwig]

You can still place shots well if you have more of them available. Marksmanship and capacity aren't mutually exclusive. The OP mentions a SIG P365, a Ruger Max, a Shield Plus, and a Springfield Hellcat. None of the those are remotely approaching hauling around a cannon.

Very good points, TunnelRat. There are people who wrongly assume that high-capacity ammunition firearms (rifles as well as handguns) promote a "spray and pray" tactic when nothing could be further from the truth. The only reason people aren't disciplined enough when it comes to expending rounds in a shootout scenario is because they were inadequately trained, didn't practice sufficiently or just lacked common sense.

To quote Spats McGee: "Only two men in history ever complained that they were carrying too much ammo. One was on fire and the other was trying to swim."

[eflyguy]

Originally Posted by dgludwig

The only reason people aren't disciplined enough when it comes to expending rounds in a shootout scenario is because they were inadequately trained, didn't practice sufficiently or just lacked common sense.

Well stated. Thank you.

[dyl]

Chaim, until you explained you don't have a MD carry permit, I was about to ask how you got one because I used to live there and at the time one was required to prove that they "needed" one.

It's funny, I also have a M&P40c that I got new back when they first came out. It was being touted as the best new thing. Who would have thought that someone could improve on it? But it does offer a lot for its size. The handle / grip is smaller than a G26 grip, and some don't like the hump of a Gen 3 G26. Don't know if they've changed G26 dimensions for later generations. I don't carry mine M&P much because i mostly pocket carry.

So if you ever want to pocket carry (I do every day... sucker for convenience), consider finding a Kahr CM9. I'm currently tempted to try a P365 for the capacity and shorter trigger travel, but I can't deny the accuracy of this thing. I have "Mag guts" in it, which takes it from 6+1 to 7+1. So 8 in my mind is pretty close to 10, I can't justify a switch yet while the prices of the new high capacity subcompacts are still so high.

I still do pocket carry a good 'ol J frame sometimes only because mine is so light.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by eflyguy

Thanks for proving my point.

I'll take my chances with 7 well-placed shots that I practice frequently over hauling around a cannon and 30 rounds all day long.

I can't think of an instance where an armed assailant had "backup" in recent history.

I don't carry a gun because of the odds. I carry because of the stakes.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by chaim

I have the aforementioned guns that will work, and I have a Kel Tec Pf-9 (I don't ever carry it since it is borderline reliable, but with some work it could possibly be reliable enough). .

If you just want a new gun, I understand. But you already own one of the very best CC carry weapons ever made. The PF9, is THE most convenient concealable handgun I know of. It is lighter, thinner, and 8 shots of 9mm - too many popular pistols are just to big, too fat, too heavy.
IMHO, once you step up from the PF9, it should be to be to a compact-size (Glock 19/23, M&P, etc.).

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I will add my two cents. Personally have not bought into the fact that practical EDC should require or even necessary to have 10 rounds or more. Not reality at least where I live. One to Three shots at the most. Regardless of how many rounds you believe you need, I focus on my draw, and point and shoot skills. That first or second shot is of utmost importance.The Bad guys, in most instances will have the advantage of surprise on their side. My goal when training and practice will focus on draw, and different drills of double taps etc. I also prefer to find the perfect gun for my own individual and personal fit. Shooting characteristic of the gun along with good concealment trump more rounds. In fact, I would rather have a gun I prefer to shoot and carry a small Backup gun than either more more rounds or a spare magazine.
If I was to go down by a assault, I feel the odds of dropping my gun and needing a second gun more likely than just a few extra round or a spare magazine. Both of which would be useless.
And I believe in training with that Pocket gun to maxim proficiently as well. Also a spare gun helps to balance the carry load for EDC.
I do believe the statistics that the average person will need more than one shot to hit center mass. Most average gun owners do not even make it to the range but once a month. However I do not intend to be just average. I spend the time to go past that mark.

[FITASC]

Sig 365; wife liked mine so much I got her one for Christmas; 10, 12 or 15 round mags in a smaller package than the G26 - and it fits my hand a LOT better than any Glock

[Urbanrecon]

Never assume a gunfight is only going to involve only one to three rounds because that is what the stats tell you. You know what they say about liars, damn liars, and statisticians.

I will say though, I care about stakes AND odds.