Information on Percussion Cap Rifle

Kirk3910 · March 14, 2021, 02:35 PM

I inherited a black powder percussion cap rifle from my Father In Law. It appears to be rather old and possibly a .38 Cal. The rifle has had a bad life and the first time I saw it was before my Father In Law passed so I've never know it to fire. It's pretty rusty and I'm pretty certain something is in the barrel but my ball puller won't bring it out. Somehow the cap nipple was damaged and is too rusty too remove, as is the well cap. I do not want to apply heat as I'm pretty sure it would turn in to a pipe bomb if there is active powder in there. The lock plate was pretty rusty and the springs were broke but after I cleaned it up alittle I noticed the word "Marranted" engraved on the plate. At first I thought it said Warranted but I'm pretty sure it's an M. There's also a pheasant and a deer engraved on the plate. I can't find this gun anywhere. The back half of the barrel is hexed and the front half is round. The tang and the barrel lock pin is broke off too. Any help identifying this gun?, or is it just junk and I shouldn't waste my time.

Pahoo · March 14, 2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

At first I thought it said Warranted but I'm pretty sure it's an M.

I have seen "Warranted" before but never Marranted and that doesn't mean it's not what you are reading. You pictures are good but just not seeing areas, I need to see. This piece has a lot more to say, if you just keep digging. As far as still being loaded that is easy enough to tell. I like the half-stock, ramrod has been replaced and I suspect it might be a "smooth-bore" .....

Quote:

or is it just junk and I shouldn't waste my time.

That's entirely your call but wouldn't give up, on it. It's still "Pretty" junk. If noting else, it would make a great wall-hanger. When you get time, post more pictures. .....

Be Safe !!!

**Aguila Blanca** · March 14, 2021, 10:58 PM

Moved to "Black Powder"

Oliver Sudden · March 15, 2021, 08:18 AM

That’s a nice old gun, and appears to be a shotgun. The ram rod could well be original as its tapered. Before you do any work on it find a knowledgeable person that can guide you on what to do with it. It does say Warranted on the lock, that was often done. It could be loaded which is common with these old guns.

Hawg · March 15, 2021, 03:35 PM

The lock says Warranted, it is fowler. Are there any markings on the underside of the barrel?

**4V50 Gary** · March 15, 2021, 06:19 PM

Clean it up. Use a nickel (five cent piece) and coconut oil. Apply oil, scrape. Wipe afterward with rag. I don't think it's in that bad condition. You might find markings that will offer clues to the maker.

As for the barrel, drop the ram rod down it and make a mark (use painter's tape). Then place the rod against the barrel and see if the end of the rod reaches the drum. If so, you're empty, if not, it could be loaded. You might want to find a buddy with a c02 discharger to see if the load can be discharged safely.

When I was restoring shotguns, I used a bore hone to polish those old barrels. The way your barrel looks it could well be a fowler like Hawg suggested. These were smooth bore guns for fowl and game.

Oliver Sudden · March 15, 2021, 10:14 PM

I hadn’t looked at this rifle as carefully as I should, I now see the rear sight. That is why I still think you should take it to some one to inspect it in hand. We all like to help on line but first hand examination will give a much more accurate understanding of what you have.

bedbugbilly · March 16, 2021, 07:31 PM

Your photo of the lock shows that the drum is not tight to the drum cut out on the lock. This leads me to believe that the barrel is either sitting crooked in the barrel channel or with the evidence of the stock crack, it is twisted enough so the drum is not seated into the cut out. On many of the original rifles - the breech plug has a coarse thread on it - this made it easier to remove when needed - modern breech pugs have a much finer thread. It may be that the tang is in the tang mortise but is not lingering dup with the top flat of the barrel - thus the drum is not seated in the drum cut out on the lock.

Tihis rifle was most likely assembled by a gunsmith from some parts he purchased (did not make himself). Locks were made by lockmakers in many cases and then sold to gunsmiths/arnms byukders, I have seen many such locks marked "Warranted" on a wide variety of rifles as well as shotguns/fowlers that were sold to the maker. While some gun builders had the ability to make all of the parts - barrels, locks, furniture, etc. - not all gunmakers did - yet they were able to assemble and stock the firearm with great skill.

Carefully remove the barrel - unscrew the barrel tang screw if it will come out - carefully remove the barrel wedge and the ramrod and take the barrel out of the stock. Go over it hormone end to the other with a magnifying glass to see if you can detect any markings or a name - it might or might not be marked. Even if the barrel is marked - it may just be the name of the barrel maker and not the gun maker.

This rifle has the lines of a nice half-stock late percussion rifle and IMHO, is worthy of a skilled restoration job.

March 14, 2021, 10:58 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Moved to "Black Powder" __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

March 15, 2021, 06:19 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Clean it up. Use a nickel (five cent piece) and coconut oil. Apply oil, scrape. Wipe afterward with rag. I don't think it's in that bad condition. You might find markings that will offer clues to the maker. As for the barrel, drop the ram rod down it and make a mark (use painter's tape). Then place the rod against the barrel and see if the end of the rod reaches the drum. If so, you're empty, if not, it could be loaded. You might want to find a buddy with a c02 discharger to see if the load can be discharged safely. When I was restoring shotguns, I used a bore hone to polish those old barrels. The way your barrel looks it could well be a fowler like Hawg suggested. These were smooth bore guns for fowl and game. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 16, 2021, 07:31 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Your photo of the lock shows that the drum is not tight to the drum cut out on the lock. This leads me to believe that the barrel is either sitting crooked in the barrel channel or with the evidence of the stock crack, it is twisted enough so the drum is not seated into the cut out. On many of the original rifles - the breech plug has a coarse thread on it - this made it easier to remove when needed - modern breech pugs have a much finer thread. It may be that the tang is in the tang mortise but is not lingering dup with the top flat of the barrel - thus the drum is not seated in the drum cut out on the lock. Tihis rifle was most likely assembled by a gunsmith from some parts he purchased (did not make himself). Locks were made by lockmakers in many cases and then sold to gunsmiths/arnms byukders, I have seen many such locks marked "Warranted" on a wide variety of rifles as well as shotguns/fowlers that were sold to the maker. While some gun builders had the ability to make all of the parts - barrels, locks, furniture, etc. - not all gunmakers did - yet they were able to assemble and stock the firearm with great skill. Carefully remove the barrel - unscrew the barrel tang screw if it will come out - carefully remove the barrel wedge and the ramrod and take the barrel out of the stock. Go over it hormone end to the other with a magnifying glass to see if you can detect any markings or a name - it might or might not be marked. Even if the barrel is marked - it may just be the name of the barrel maker and not the gun maker. This rifle has the lines of a nice half-stock late percussion rifle and IMHO, is worthy of a skilled restoration job. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 15, 2021, 08:18 AM	#4
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	That’s a nice old gun, and appears to be a shotgun. The ram rod could well be original as its tapered. Before you do any work on it find a knowledgeable person that can guide you on what to do with it. It does say Warranted on the lock, that was often done. It could be loaded which is common with these old guns.

March 15, 2021, 03:35 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The lock says Warranted, it is fowler. Are there any markings on the underside of the barrel?

March 15, 2021, 10:14 PM	#7
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	I hadn’t looked at this rifle as carefully as I should, I now see the rear sight. That is why I still think you should take it to some one to inspect it in hand. We all like to help on line but first hand examination will give a much more accurate understanding of what you have.