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Old October 15, 2021, 04:37 PM   #1
e-bear
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Sabots and pistol bullets

I came across a box of 200gr .45 cal cast bullets and want to shoot them in a .50 cal ML. Got some .50 cal sabots that hold .451 and .452 bullets. Dismal results. Been shooting commercial bullets that come with a matching sabot with great results. Same charge and same primer.....Maybe increase charge?....Whatchu think?.......I did notice that the wings on the sabots protrude beyond nose of bullets by about 1/4 inch so I cut some back to the shoulder of bullet but I didn't get them all to eq length....I dont know and open for suggestions.
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Old October 15, 2021, 07:49 PM   #2
Deltadart
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It's only a guess, but it sounds as though the sabot is causing a wobble in the .45 cal projectile. If the fingers are not the same shape or length that is probably enough to do it by the time the two seperate. Perhaps try shooting them without cutting.
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Old October 15, 2021, 10:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
I did notice that the wings on the sabots protrude beyond nose of bullets by about 1/4 inch so I cut some back to the shoulder of bullet but I didn't get them all to eq length....I dont know and open for suggestions.
You modified the sabots by cutting them, and you didn't do it evenly, which means as pointed out, that could be introducing wobble in the bore, and I'll go a bit further and say it could also be creating "wobble" in the air on the way to the target. Uneven "fingers" could mean the sabots are not opening up and releasing the bullet evenly. And shortening them at all might also produce the same effect. There's generally an engineered reason things are the size and shape they are, and when you change that, you get different results.

IF this is, in fact the case, that your changes are the cause of the problem, upping the powder charge won't do much beyond waste more powder.
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Old October 16, 2021, 03:03 AM   #4
NoSecondBest
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MMP and Harvester both make a variety of sabots for use with different bullets and different bore diameters. You’d probably be better off calling them and asking which sabot they’d recommend with the powder you’re using. FWIW, there is no spec’s on “50” caliber. If you actually measure the actual bore size from different manufacturers, it’s all over the map. Both MMP and Harvester can give you advice on what to try. I’ve talked to both companies in the past and they’ve been very helpful. I don’t know if they still do it, but I’ve gotten samples to try in my various guns. Unless you’re using the correct sabot for your bullet and gun, you’re going to have some problems with accuracy. One other thing: you didn’t say what powder you’re using. Some types require swabbing and cleaning the bore between each shot to get best results. Waiting for barrel cool down is also critical with all sabots. Heat is the enemy of all sabots….warm plastic doesn’t perform well. Properly done, a good muzzle loader (at least an in-line) can produce close to 1moa groups with the right set-up and routine. Good luck
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Old October 16, 2021, 11:32 AM   #5
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Agree !!!

Quote:
It's only a guess, but it sounds as though the sabot is causing a wobble in the .45 cal projectile.
Not just a guess but a high probability and that would be my first change.
Nothing should extend beyond the tip/end of the bullet or PRB. ....
Even in PRB's that is why the make various diameter patches for different calibers and PRB's are more forgiving than conicals. .....

A number of years ago, I was doing a bit of experiments wish this type of shot strings. I went from Hornady pistol 250grn bullets, to my hard-cast, with the same or similar bullets and excellent performance, for Midwest ranges.

I won't question the OP is trying to utilize what he has. Trimming the sabots as evenly as he can, should make a difference. Another option, off the tope of my head is to fit a bore-button under the piston bullet. ....

Range time and;
"Be Safe"
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Old October 16, 2021, 06:00 PM   #6
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I used to shoot a lot of .45 bullets from my .50 cal Savage muzzle loader at the range for accuracy.

All sabots are not even close to equal! For me, pushing well over 2,000 FPS MMP Black were wildly more accurate than anything. I had to buy every kind, go to the range, and try. XTPs worked well for me.

Why did you cut your sabot? Did you try them uncut? Maybe your rifle simply doesn’t like your sabot with your load and bullet.

I have had great luck with Harvester sabots. When I sold my ML, the fella received it packed in bags of sabots I shot a group with and vowed to never use again. Many brands of sabots got rejected.
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Old October 16, 2021, 07:02 PM   #7
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True

Quote:
All sabots are not even close to equal!
This is true and rejected a number of them, just by word of mouth and the rest by process of elimination. It's mostly about the resin they use. Some just won't take a hot load. The black Hornady worked well for me but by now, I'm sure there is better. .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old October 18, 2021, 04:22 PM   #8
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Thanx to y'all for the responses. I guess I could have been a little more clear. The bullets are SWC with a lubricant groove with the lubricant still viable. The sabots are Thompson Center black MAG EXPRESS SABOTS. I shot about 10 and gave up for the day. The fingers extended about 1/4" forward of the nose of the bullets and would have to be crumpled by the ramrod. After a few shots I cut wads from 1/4" foam insulation and placed them in the sabot under the bullets but that did not improve the accuracy. I then trimmed the sabots to the lube groove and most are 'fairly' EQ lengthwise. I am sure the sabots are the culprit here. ...Afterall it surely cant be me...

NoSecondBest, I will checkout MMP and Harvester Thanx..

Stinkeypete, what was your charge for 2000FPS with Harvester Black? I am using 2 pellets of Triple7?

Pahoo, I am not sure what a bore-button is. Is it the same as a wad or are they harder? Aren't wads used with percussion cap revolvers? The wads I cut from 1/4" Hard Styrofoam insulation using a .45ACP casing. The casing worked pretty well for diameter size but the edges were a bit ragged. I didnt think they would effect much since they were trapped between bullet and sabot.

Thanx again fellas.
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Old October 18, 2021, 06:33 PM   #9
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Yes Sir

Quote:
Pahoo, I am not sure what a bore-button is. Is it the same as a wad or are they harder? Aren't wads used with percussion cap revolvers? The wads I cut from 1/4" Hard Styrofoam insulation using a .45ACP casing. The casing worked pretty well for diameter size but the edges were a bit ragged. I didn't think they would effect much since they were trapped between bullet and sabot.
Yes sir; bore buttons are the same as the wonder wads and not exclusive to C&B revolvers. By the way, If I use a hard-cast "lubed" projectile, in a sabot, I remove all the lube and wipe them clean. ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old October 19, 2021, 08:15 PM   #10
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Sorry, I meant MMP black. MMP. As it was a Savage, rated fore smokeless powders, don’t try it. IMR4227 and Lil Gun will blow black powder guns up. The Savage was designed for it. Now discontinued. I had loads that were elephant gun level. Don’t do that without special gear.
Sorry. MMP sabots. Harvesters we’re bleah for me.
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