Red dot

[Lhigginsqrb]

I first mounted A red dot to my shotgun 10 years ago roughly. I bought a cheap one that cost around 40 bucks. I was on another forum discussing the possibility around that time and got nothing but negative feedback about it. People telling me it wouldn’t work and such. The conversation was downright hostile and I wound up leaving the forum over it along with a couple of other threads. The atmosphere here is much better.

I’m happy to see now that optics on a shotgun have become a pretty common thing. You can read articles about it from noteworthy sources. My cheap Red dot held it zero pretty well even with high brass loads. I’d usually check the zero before or after a hunt just to be safe but I rarely had to adjust it. I do that with my scopes for deer hunting as well since They can move depending on how they are handled.

All that being said I’m in the market for a red dot that’s a little higher quality now and I need recommendations. I got a little more money going at this point in life. I like to be able to see everything in front of me. If I’m tracking a squirrel or rabbit or something it’s gonna be moving half the time or more.

I remember EO Tech being the top of the line brand back then supposedly. I couldn’t really afford one so I didn’t buy it. Come to find out they aren’t that good. They had a military contract which was their selling point and if you asked the military guys they say they just didn’t perform.

[Virginian]

I started with a Weaver Qwik-Point about 1974 or 5. I had innumerable mount issues, it fogged easily, it was bulky and unsightly as hell - but when it worked it worked good. I progressed to a Tasco and a few others before acquiring a Burris SpeedBead set up.
I prefer an 8 mil dot for wingshooting as opposed to the 4 mil. I just wish they ALL weren't so aesthetically unappealing.
I am an old timer now, nonetheless many old schoolers are hostile to them. Look at the target is their mantra - refusing to hear you do look at the target but your eye can easily also see that dot for reference instead of the barrel in your peripheral vision.

[Lhigginsqrb]

I had no idea the technology Had been around for so long. That’s very interesting. I certainly understand those people not wanting to use them themselves but what me and you do with our guns is our business LOL. I love the red dot but I also like to shoot ghost bead iron site snd fiber optic occasionally just to make sure I’m not losing my ability. But I’m way more confident and accurate with the red dot. Faster target acquisition too

[AzShooter]

Today's red dots are a lot better than they were a few years ago. I'd look at Bushnell's Fast Fire dots or Vortex if I wanted one of the smaller size. C-More is a bit larger and has the ability to change dots anywhere from 2 to 16 MOA. It also has a better field of view.

[ChasHam]

Optical sight on a shotgun? Why?

IMHO, a high tech, expensive, fragile, pointless solution to a non-existent problem...

[Ricklin]

But you do you. I like the Burris Fastfire best of the shotgun red dots.
IMHO it is the best mounting system. I've tried one shooting practice trap, and did not care for it at all.

I mostly shoot trap, can't have it if shooting for money.

[Pahoo]

I started with a Weaver Qwik-Point about 1974 or 5.

WOW, you must be a really old guy but I prefer the world "Classic" as I too started out with a Quick-Point.

People telling me it wouldn’t work and such.

That's what some hunting buddies told one of my shop guys and that season, he took a big buck at 80yds. His hunting buddies said it was a lucky shot

Optical sight on a shotgun? Why?

There are many reasons but the one I like to refer to, is that it's the most natural way to "point" and shoot. You really are not aiming as there is nothing to align. Now, we are referring Red-Dot use on shotguns. I also have a friend that is blind in one eye and bird-hunts with a Red-Dot.

Be Safe !!!

[FITASC]

I can see a red dot on a shotgun IF you are talking about using it like a rifle for deer or hogs. Serves no purpose for clays or feathers (except turkeys)

[jrothWA]

on my Win 97 for slug - hunting, still there.
Other scopes are Weaver K3 and K2 for other shotgun,
then mounted a BARSKA on my M37 16GA for turkey works nicely.

Even put one a an M1Carbine using a steel hand guard, very slick.

[Virginian]

I have run straights at skeet with it, killed wood ducks in a tight swamp, killed long range geese consistently, and went 23 of 25 with an occluded sight - winning $50 in the process. I usually don't use it because of the aesthetics.

[Lhigginsqrb]

I say there’s plenty of reason. The easy answer is faster aiming. For me I was missing shots with iron site without my glasses. The beads blur. 2 beads plus one target makes for 3 planes to focus on. I get blur doing that. My glasses make it harder to see in my peripheral which is often where squirrels are moving. Plus I don’t like needing them. I haven’t worn them in years. Im using less Ammo and having more fun shooting the red dot. I just don’t like that it needs a battery. 4 out of 5 people who pick the gun up to check it out don’t turn it off. My ex wife let people check out my gun and every time they killed my battery.

[ChasHam]

Originally Posted by Lhigginsqrb

I say there’s plenty of reason. The easy answer is faster aiming.

Many instructors teach students to point a shotgun rather than aim it-- though sights and aiming are necessary when firing slugs.

[Pahoo]

Many instructors teach students to point a shotgun rather than aim it-- though sights and aiming are necessary when firing slugs.

If you want to refer to it as "aiming" that's fine but superimposing a dot over the target is what I call "point and shoot". Again. it's the most natural way of shooting. I kind of liken it to instinctive "archery" .....

Be Safe !!!

[Ricklin]

I don't care for them on shotguns. That is not to say they do not work. The red dot units are all about point shooting.
I have not shot all the clay target games, of the ones I have red dot type devices are banned in competition.

They do work.

[bamaranger]

I've been running some type of optic on a turkey shotgun now for about 5 years. With the dense, tight patterns offered by todays turkey guns, chokes and loads, it's entirely possible to MISS a gobblers noggin' inside 30 yds or so (please don't ask how I know) Sights allow the tight shooting gobbler guns to be aimed more precisely at the smallish target of a turkeys head.

I had rifle sights initially, then went to the "See-All" sight, and am now using a low powered 1.5-5x scope. The change was necessitated by my eyes reaching the point that focus on the front sight of my stubby turkey gun was difficult. Of course, busting gobblers is not wing shooting, nor is launching slugs at whitetails, (or felons) but there is credible answer to why one might put an optic on a shotgun.

[Lhigginsqrb]

Does anyone have an opinion on what Moa is ideal for shotgun? I’m not shooting slugs or trying to do long-range stuff with this one. I think pretty much all my shot should be within 30 and 50 yards. I do get that occasional crazy one that’s way out there but I’m not setting the gun up for that. I see a lot of stuff in the case EoTek being the most expensive. I heard they were overpriced.

[FITASC]

had rifle sights initially, then went to the "See-All" sight, and am now using a low powered 1.5-5x scope. The change was necessitated by my eyes reaching the point that focus on the front sight of my stubby turkey gun was difficult. Of course, busting gobblers is not wing shooting, nor is launching slugs at whitetails, (or felons) but there is credible answer to why one might put an optic on a shotgun.

I agree, which s basically what I said above. With clays or feathers your eyes are your sights and unlike metallic, your focus is on the target, NOT the sights.

[Lhigginsqrb]

Fit. I need to know more about what you just said. I’ve been trying to shoot clays all day and I do not have time to draw a bead. I was just discussing trying to use the barrel/rib for a quicker aim.

[bladesmith 1]

It's been said " If you want to refer to it as "aiming" that's fine but superimposing a dot over the target is what I call "point and shoot". Again. it's the most natural way of shooting. I kind of liken it to instinctive "archery". You're still aiming a dot on a target even if you want to call it point and shoot. And that's aiming.
And no, it's not anything like instinctive archery. There are those who use a sight on a compound bow, and aim it. Then there are those, like myself, who shoot a longbow [ my own hand made Osage Orange bows for the past 25 years] and I/we just look at the target, and when it feels right loosen the string. There's no aiming.
Sames goes for a shotgun. If you're going to use it for shooting stationary targets and want to aim it, fine. If you're going to be shooting moving targets, you just look at the target and pull the trigger when it looks right.
Just because someone can run 25 straight at skeet doesn't mean that's the proper way to shoot moving targets with a shotgun. You'll never see a really good shooter use one. I run the shotgun at my club and only once in 15 years did I see someone try using a Red Dot, and that was for trap. He got one or two. To shoot any weapon good it takes practice, sometime lots of practice. Lhig, first learn to shoot trap and skeet, especially skeet , than learn SCs. Good luck.

[bladesmith 1]

This discussion got me to thinking. I use to shoot trap in the mid 70s and then quit shooting 25 years until the wife got me back into it. I decided to learn skeet and SCs. It was awful at first, 4/25 at skeet and 7 or 8/50 in SCs. Even bought a " Dri Fire " to practice with [ a device that throws a moving dot on the wall and tells you on a computer screen where your shot went ]. I read you just look at the clay and shoot. If the gun fits you, it will shoot where you're looking. Well, on a 90 degree crosser that needs at least 4' of lead how do you get it when the barrel is pointed where I'm looking, at the bird. I guess most guys " see " where the barrel is pointing - in front of the bird. That didn't work for me. I knew what the leads should be from trying to shoot skeet, I just couldn't do it. So I learned to look ahead of the clay the distance I wanted. I think some call it the " intercept " method. Where the bird and shot intercept each other. Do I look at the end of the barrel when pulling the trigger - no. But I am looking down the barrel, and can see it and know the relationship of bird/barrel. Instructors will tell you if you're looking at the beads on the barrel you're " bead checking " and will stop your gun and shoot behind. But those are the guys who look at the bird and " see " the barrels in their subconscious. For me it's if the barrels are suppose to be pointing where I'm looking, then I just look down the barrel where I want to shoot, and " see " the bird behind it.
Shotgun wing shooting isn't as easy as one would think, especially if you're looking to shoot high numbers at clay targets. Hunting is another story where sometimes 50% hits would be acceptable. In the clay games such as skeet, 5-stand or SCs, there are many different methods to lead a bird such as swing through, pull away, maintain lead, intercept, reverse, and some others. Clay pigeons are moving just too fast to use a Red Dot. It takes lots of practice, and help from someone who knows what they're doing and can give advice when needed. Back when I was learning to shoot, it was a lot cheaper. I'd shoot 6 to 8 boxes of shells a night, three times a week. Now you can't even find shells, and if you do they're way over priced. So much for my rant, good luck to all.

[jrothWA]

Here I am getting my turkey outfit together.

I have a $40 red dot on the Weaver scope mount for a my Ithaca M37 16ga.

Have time to get it sighted for 35 yds with my reloads of Longshot powder and WAA16s.

Might even get the A5 12 MAG slug barrel and use the TSFULL choke for calling in a bird.

[Rob228]

Instructors will tell you if you're looking at the beads on the barrel you're " bead checking " and will stop your gun and shoot behind. But those are the guys who look at the bird and " see " the barrels in their subconscious. For me it's if the barrels are suppose to be pointing where I'm looking, then I just look down the barrel where I want to shoot, and " see " the bird behind it.

I grew up shooting skeet twice a week and remember my dad mentioning that he was certain some of the guys were shooting off of timing and could probably break 20/25 blindfolded. They would tend to get very upset if whoever running the controls delayed the tiniest bit after "pull".

Never tried a red-dot on a shotgun but a few of my friends have (upland hunting, no clays games). I know from transitioning to one on a pistol it puts your focus on the target not the dot, I feel like with crossing targets in 5 stand or the middle stations in skeet you may have some trouble looking through the optic at the target when you've got to be way ahead of it. Issue will probably resolve itself through a couple rounds while you get it all sorted out between your eyes/brain and finger.

Let us know what you go with and how it works for you. My A400 has dovetails on the receiver and I always need a new project.

[eastbank]

i use two shotguns for hunting turkeys, one has a older 2.5x leupold and the other has a burris FF3 on it. both are turkey slayers to 40 yards with ease. and both have life time warrenties.

[Rob228]

i use two shotguns for hunting turkeys, one has a older 2.5x leupold and the other has a burris FF3 on it. both are turkey slayers to 40 yards with ease. and both have life time warrenties.

I think this brings up an important differentiation; shooting super tight patterns at small targets or shooting a flying bird. I've heard arguments for red dots for both.

I remember EO Tech being the top of the line brand back then supposedly. I couldn’t really afford one so I didn’t buy it. Come to find out they aren’t that good. They had a military contract which was their selling point and if you asked the military guys they say they just didn’t perform.

I'm going to have to dispute this a little bit. The first generation EOtechs (the ones running AA batteries mostly) had issues. The rubber buffer on the springs holding the batteries would break, moving the spring off the battery and you'd shoot once then your reticle is gone because the connection was broken. The buttons were horrible too, and that just sprung another memory the second generation worked, even with AA batteries but they moved to the rubberized buttons. The first generation buttons were BAD, hard to feel when you actually turned it on, didn't work so well in general etc.

Any current EOtech device will take more abuse than you can throw at it, but they surely aren't cheap. Same can be said for Aimpoint and Trijicon. Holosun is making good things too but allegedly they stole some patents from Trijicon and it is a Chinese company, if you have issues with supporting a potential foe. But for the price..... I wouldn't judge someone for going that route.

I currently have three Vortex red dots, a Trijicon, an EOtech and an Aimpoint (the Trijicon, EOTech and Aimpoint are on rifles/one pistol that I tend to be VERY hard on, the Vortex on the others). Pretty happy with all of them, but I do have to say none are on shotguns so I can't speak to the recoil abuse they'll take.

[eastbank]

a good friend bought a red dot (russian) at walmart for 59.00, it lasted for 3 shots on a 3.5" turkey shotgun, he picked up the pieces and took them to walmart and got his money back. he,s turned off on red dots, but he has tried my burris FF3 on my 12 ga 3" shotgun and may buy one in the future.