38 special target loads

akinswi · June 24, 2020, 07:55 PM

I Just picked my S&W 586 today. I never have reloaded for 38 special. I plan on shooting this gun alot, I already ordered another lee pro 1000 (just easier than doing a caliber conversion because the one I have is set up perfectly for 9mm)

With that said, would Cast bullets be better vs Copper plated, vs Jacketed . I have 8lbs of Titegroup which i use exclusively in 9mm and 45 acp. Or would anybody suggest a better powder?

accuracy wise are wad cutters, semi wad cutters or round nose more accurate. I know I will need to tweak the load for my handgun just like to hear some suggestions from folks who have experience shooting this caliber from a gun similar to mine.

My buddy has a colt Python we have 100.00 wager i can shoot better groups than he can.

Thanks
Will

zxcvbob · June 24, 2020, 08:28 PM

Titegroup sucks with cast bullets. (in my opinion) Bullseye is a good .38 Special powder; so is Winchester 231. Since you have the TG already give it a try, but I don't think you will like it. It's too hard to see the powder in the cases when you check them before seating the bullet, and it's very smokey with cast bullets, and the gun gets hot really fast.

Try 148 grain wadcutters with about 2.7 grains of Bullseye, or 158 grain SWC with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. Both loads are very accurate for me. I don't know the equivalent 231 loads, you will have to look those up.

Your TG powder might be good with plated bullets. Berry's makes a nice hollow base wadcutter.

BTW, HP-38 and W231 are the same powder now. I don't know if that was always the case, but now buy whichever is cheaper that day or in stock.

RKG · June 24, 2020, 09:27 PM

2.7 grains of Bullseye pushing either a 148 grain H&G #52 (if you can find someone who casts them) or a 148 grain swaged Hornady HBWC. This has been a classic Bullseye load since the beginning of time.

FITASC · June 24, 2020, 09:29 PM

I like 3.8 of Titegroup with 158 gr SWCs from a variety of makers. My other good load is 3.7 of Bullseye with the same bullets. I use Bullseye for 148gr WC

Sevens · June 24, 2020, 11:51 PM

I learned early in to my life with S&W revolvers to eject a certain way — push the cylinder open with my index & middle finger of my left hand on the cylinder while my left thumb works the ejection rod. This sounds more complicated when written out, I’ll bet a huge volume of revolver lovers eject spent brass in the very same way that I do.

I say all of ^ that ^ to say this: Titegroup is, in my opinion, BANNED FOR LIFE OR LONGER in .38 Special at my load bench. There is no powder I have ever used that comes anywhere near Titegroup when it comes to making firearms scorching -HOT- and I absolutely hate ejecting brass when I’ve made my .38 Special ammo with Titegroup. Makes the cylinder far beyond too hot to touch and burns my fingers.

I eat up jug after jug of good ‘ole Bullseye for .38 Special and my family and I enjoy a mountain of .38 Special annually.

There are probably a dozen or more fantastic powders for .38 Special but I will never use Titegroup in that place.

Radny97 · June 24, 2020, 11:59 PM

Most accurate powder i have found for 38 special is Clays.
I have also tried 231, bullseye, American Select, VV320, HS-6, Power Pistol, SportPistol, Red Dot, and a few others.
231 was a close second in accuracy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ligonierbill · June 25, 2020, 03:21 AM

I usually load Power Pistol, but my 38 Special target load is a 148 Speer HBWC over 3.2 gr. HP-38. Runs 718 out of my 6" Model 14. Loading wadcutters, you typically seat right to the case mouth and put a light crimp over the face of the bullet.

Don Fischer · June 25, 2020, 06:17 AM

Oh boy. 148gr wadcutter and 2.5grs Bullseye!

BJung · June 25, 2020, 09:12 AM

Bullseye

dahermit · June 25, 2020, 10:12 AM

Quote:

accuracy wise are wad cutters, semi wad cutters or round nose more accurate.

I just shot up about a thousand cast .38 wadcutters someone gifted me. Compared to round nose bullets, they are a real pain in the behind when using speedloaders and loading blocks to load the speed loaders. I was very glad to to see the end of them...back to using 130 grain Lee 2 ogive round nose bullets. The round noses are accurate enough for my purpose, which is falling plates on my 16 yard at-home range. I don't shoot off-hand, so don't know how they would compare to wadcutters.

zxcvbob · June 25, 2020, 10:18 AM

Lee makes a 158 grain wide flat nosed bullet mold that cuts clean holes in paper and it's fast to load. They don't call it a WFN; I can't remember if it's a truncated cone or a RNFP in their catalog, but the flat point has sharp corners. It doesn't cut a .38" clean hole, more like .32" with a gray circle around it.

akinswi · June 25, 2020, 10:21 AM

Thanks for responses hands down sounds like bulleyes is the go to powder. Its gonna be nice no searching for brass anymore in the grass ��

Nick_C_S · June 25, 2020, 10:45 AM

Titegroup is a great propellant if you run plated or jacketed bullets. It ignites easily and is a natural consistent burner - it's hard make inconsistent ammo with it. It does have a very low fill rate though. With 38 Special, target level charges, you can fit up to five charges in the case without overfilling it - the stuff is really dense. Low fill rates make some loaders nervy, so it's worth mentioning.

I would however, recommend against running lead bullets with it. As Sevens mentions, TiteGroup runs really hot. And that doesn't bode well for barrel/cylinder throat leading. And yes, it can get hot enough to be an issue with unloading (I use the same technique as Sevens). Your 586 is a fairly beefy gun, so it'll take a bit to heat it up, but it will get hot faster than with other propellants.

Like Sevens, after using 4#'s, I have stopped using TG also. W231 can do everything TG does (and more, actually), with less heat. The natural and traditional choices for lead 38 Special rounds is Bullseye and W231/HP-38.

Jim Watson · June 25, 2020, 11:17 AM

Plated bullets are generally a bust for fine accuracy and I don't know about coated.

If you want to use your Titegroup already on hand, get some Hornady or Sierra JHPs.
Don't load too light, it is possible to stick a bullet, or even worse, stick a bullet jacket with too light a load.

FITASC · June 25, 2020, 01:54 PM

Quote:

I would however, recommend against running lead bullets with it. As Sevens mentions, TiteGroup runs really hot. And that doesn't bode well for barrel/cylinder throat leading. And yes, it can get hot enough to be an issue with unloading

Have never had this issue, but then I do not load hot loads to begin with; good accuracy, mild recoil, no leading - at least in MY guns.

black91stang · July 5, 2020, 07:54 PM

I'm currently running a HP38 and 158gr LSWC powder coated combo for 38spcl. and have been very pleased with it so far. I also have ran Unique behind the same bullet and berry's plated 158 gr RN along with some FMJ's.

akinswi · July 6, 2020, 09:18 PM

So I loaded some plated DEWC from Berrys. I used 2.9 grains of Bulleyes. The accuracy was ok but not a single ragged hole or in this case a nice small perfectly cut out group. I do see why people use these for paper targets tho nice holes lol. My next question is im seating these flush to the case mouth. I didnt want to crimp but i noticed they still had flares from the expander die. so i just gave them the slightest crimp to remove the flare. , Using lee dies btw. I dont know if this is causing the inaccuracy or i just need to break the barrel and trigger in. Im not olympic shooter but i should be able to touch all holes at 10yds with a 586

Thoughts.

Sevens · July 6, 2020, 09:47 PM

My first thought is that plated offers a LOT more resistance in a bore than lead, a lot. I would definitely not run those as lightly as 2.9 grains, no way, no how, no matter what anyone says, even Berry himself!

I’d run them at 3.3gr Bullseye or more. And while I have gotten many years and many tens of thousands of great rounds from plated — plated has limitations on accuracy. If you want full wadcutters and the associated accuracy, get yourself some fantastic lead bullets.

The problem with plated in a revolver is the flash gap. Not an accuracy problem but it can be a major stuck bullet problem if you run them anywhere near too slow. The flash gap is a pressure bleed valve. Much needed pressure can escape and you’ll be left with a bullet stuck in the bore. Not prevalent in semiautos where the only pressure escape path is the muzzle.

I would absolutely up the charge weight — I would definitely not shoot another with a 2.9gr charge. YMMV. I have stuck a plated bullet in a revolver barrel and it is an awful experience.

akinswi · July 6, 2020, 10:03 PM

I almost loaded them at 2.7 but i knew that lead slides down the bore more easily than a plated bullet , is why i upped it a bit. I will try them at 3.3 see how it goes. Im exp shooter so i kept a close eye on squibs. Thankfully i got a bang and hole in the paper each time i pulled the trigger. Thing about lead is I hate cleaning it but Once my local supplier gets some back instock ill buy some HBWC try those. They should seal better. Would you use 358 or 357 dia?

June 24, 2020, 07:55 PM	#1
akinswi Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 706	38 special target loads I Just picked my S&W 586 today. I never have reloaded for 38 special. I plan on shooting this gun alot, I already ordered another lee pro 1000 (just easier than doing a caliber conversion because the one I have is set up perfectly for 9mm) With that said, would Cast bullets be better vs Copper plated, vs Jacketed . I have 8lbs of Titegroup which i use exclusively in 9mm and 45 acp. Or would anybody suggest a better powder? accuracy wise are wad cutters, semi wad cutters or round nose more accurate. I know I will need to tweak the load for my handgun just like to hear some suggestions from folks who have experience shooting this caliber from a gun similar to mine. My buddy has a colt Python we have 100.00 wager i can shoot better groups than he can. Thanks Will

June 24, 2020, 08:28 PM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Titegroup sucks with cast bullets. (in my opinion) Bullseye is a good .38 Special powder; so is Winchester 231. Since you have the TG already give it a try, but I don't think you will like it. It's too hard to see the powder in the cases when you check them before seating the bullet, and it's very smokey with cast bullets, and the gun gets hot really fast. Try 148 grain wadcutters with about 2.7 grains of Bullseye, or 158 grain SWC with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. Both loads are very accurate for me. I don't know the equivalent 231 loads, you will have to look those up. Your TG powder might be good with plated bullets. Berry's makes a nice hollow base wadcutter. BTW, HP-38 and W231 are the same powder now. I don't know if that was always the case, but now buy whichever is cheaper that day or in stock. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

June 24, 2020, 09:29 PM	#4
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	I like 3.8 of Titegroup with 158 gr SWCs from a variety of makers. My other good load is 3.7 of Bullseye with the same bullets. I use Bullseye for 148gr WC __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

June 25, 2020, 09:12 AM	#9
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	1st Powder Bullseye

June 25, 2020, 10:18 AM	#11
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Lee makes a 158 grain wide flat nosed bullet mold that cuts clean holes in paper and it's fast to load. They don't call it a WFN; I can't remember if it's a truncated cone or a RNFP in their catalog, but the flat point has sharp corners. It doesn't cut a .38" clean hole, more like .32" with a gray circle around it. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

June 24, 2020, 09:27 PM	#3
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	2.7 grains of Bullseye pushing either a 148 grain H&G #52 (if you can find someone who casts them) or a 148 grain swaged Hornady HBWC. This has been a classic Bullseye load since the beginning of time.

June 24, 2020, 11:51 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I learned early in to my life with S&W revolvers to eject a certain way — push the cylinder open with my index & middle finger of my left hand on the cylinder while my left thumb works the ejection rod. This sounds more complicated when written out, I’ll bet a huge volume of revolver lovers eject spent brass in the very same way that I do. I say all of ^ that ^ to say this: Titegroup is, in my opinion, BANNED FOR LIFE OR LONGER in .38 Special at my load bench. There is no powder I have ever used that comes anywhere near Titegroup when it comes to making firearms scorching -HOT- and I absolutely hate ejecting brass when I’ve made my .38 Special ammo with Titegroup. Makes the cylinder far beyond too hot to touch and burns my fingers. I eat up jug after jug of good ‘ole Bullseye for .38 Special and my family and I enjoy a mountain of .38 Special annually. There are probably a dozen or more fantastic powders for .38 Special but I will never use Titegroup in that place. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

June 24, 2020, 11:59 PM	#6
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	Most accurate powder i have found for 38 special is Clays. I have also tried 231, bullseye, American Select, VV320, HS-6, Power Pistol, SportPistol, Red Dot, and a few others. 231 was a close second in accuracy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

June 25, 2020, 03:21 AM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	I usually load Power Pistol, but my 38 Special target load is a 148 Speer HBWC over 3.2 gr. HP-38. Runs 718 out of my 6" Model 14. Loading wadcutters, you typically seat right to the case mouth and put a light crimp over the face of the bullet.

June 25, 2020, 06:17 AM	#8
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Oh boy. 148gr wadcutter and 2.5grs Bullseye!

June 25, 2020, 10:21 AM	#12
akinswi Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 706	Thanks for responses hands down sounds like bulleyes is the go to powder. Its gonna be nice no searching for brass anymore in the grass ��

June 25, 2020, 10:45 AM	#13
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Titegroup is a great propellant if you run plated or jacketed bullets. It ignites easily and is a natural consistent burner - it's hard make inconsistent ammo with it. It does have a very low fill rate though. With 38 Special, target level charges, you can fit up to five charges in the case without overfilling it - the stuff is really dense. Low fill rates make some loaders nervy, so it's worth mentioning. I would however, recommend against running lead bullets with it. As Sevens mentions, TiteGroup runs really hot. And that doesn't bode well for barrel/cylinder throat leading. And yes, it can get hot enough to be an issue with unloading (I use the same technique as Sevens). Your 586 is a fairly beefy gun, so it'll take a bit to heat it up, but it will get hot faster than with other propellants. Like Sevens, after using 4#'s, I have stopped using TG also. W231 can do everything TG does (and more, actually), with less heat. The natural and traditional choices for lead 38 Special rounds is Bullseye and W231/HP-38. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

June 25, 2020, 11:17 AM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Plated bullets are generally a bust for fine accuracy and I don't know about coated. If you want to use your Titegroup already on hand, get some Hornady or Sierra JHPs. Don't load too light, it is possible to stick a bullet, or even worse, stick a bullet jacket with too light a load.

July 5, 2020, 07:54 PM	#16
black91stang Junior Member Join Date: February 15, 2019 Posts: 6	I'm currently running a HP38 and 158gr LSWC powder coated combo for 38spcl. and have been very pleased with it so far. I also have ran Unique behind the same bullet and berry's plated 158 gr RN along with some FMJ's.

July 6, 2020, 09:18 PM	#17
akinswi Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 706	So I loaded some plated DEWC from Berrys. I used 2.9 grains of Bulleyes. The accuracy was ok but not a single ragged hole or in this case a nice small perfectly cut out group. I do see why people use these for paper targets tho nice holes lol. My next question is im seating these flush to the case mouth. I didnt want to crimp but i noticed they still had flares from the expander die. so i just gave them the slightest crimp to remove the flare. , Using lee dies btw. I dont know if this is causing the inaccuracy or i just need to break the barrel and trigger in. Im not olympic shooter but i should be able to touch all holes at 10yds with a 586 Thoughts.

July 6, 2020, 09:47 PM	#18
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	My first thought is that plated offers a LOT more resistance in a bore than lead, a lot. I would definitely not run those as lightly as 2.9 grains, no way, no how, no matter what anyone says, even Berry himself! I’d run them at 3.3gr Bullseye or more. And while I have gotten many years and many tens of thousands of great rounds from plated — plated has limitations on accuracy. If you want full wadcutters and the associated accuracy, get yourself some fantastic lead bullets. The problem with plated in a revolver is the flash gap. Not an accuracy problem but it can be a major stuck bullet problem if you run them anywhere near too slow. The flash gap is a pressure bleed valve. Much needed pressure can escape and you’ll be left with a bullet stuck in the bore. Not prevalent in semiautos where the only pressure escape path is the muzzle. I would absolutely up the charge weight — I would definitely not shoot another with a 2.9gr charge. YMMV. I have stuck a plated bullet in a revolver barrel and it is an awful experience. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 6, 2020, 10:03 PM	#19
akinswi Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 706	I almost loaded them at 2.7 but i knew that lead slides down the bore more easily than a plated bullet , is why i upped it a bit. I will try them at 3.3 see how it goes. Im exp shooter so i kept a close eye on squibs. Thankfully i got a bang and hole in the paper each time i pulled the trigger. Thing about lead is I hate cleaning it but Once my local supplier gets some back instock ill buy some HBWC try those. They should seal better. Would you use 358 or 357 dia?