August 14, 2009, 10:25 AM | #1 |
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Hit and Run, Thoughts?
So, today (about 20 minutes ago actually) I witnessed what could have been a horrible thing.
A very pretty blond girl, couldn't have been more than 18, is standing at a corner with a German Shepherd on a leash, waiting for the crosswalk to turn green. This is a three way intersection, and I'm at the bottom of the T waiting to make a left hand turn, which also happens to be the side of the road she's wanting to cross. So the light turns green, and I edge out about a foot or two as she starts to walk across the road. From my right I catch movement that's too fast, and turn my head to see a car blowing through the red light. Everything slows down, and I actually remember thinking to myself "I hope the dog blunts the impact enough so that this doesn't kill her" as she was walking the dog on the side that this car was coming from. Luckily the girl was paying enough attention to jerk the dog back on his leash, and jump out of the way. It's fun what adrenaline does because the dog had to weigh maybe all of 10 pounds less than she did, and she yanked it off of it's feet pulling it out of the way. Driver of the car flipped her off, and screamed something out the window at her as he drove past. Well dressed middle aged guy. Real winner I guess. What I was wondering was this. Assuming he had hit her, but had stopped after, would I have been justified in removing him from his vehicle? If I tried to do so and it looked as if he was going to attempt to drive off, and looks like he may injure someone further in doing so, is deadly force warranted? He's already demonstrated at that point he's willing to run 1 person over, who I assume would still be in the possible path of his car. Not to mention any bystanders that had since gathered. What if he hadn't stopped? Follow while on the phone with 911?What are everyone's thoughts?
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-- Sparks AKA J.M. Johnston Last edited by Sparks2112; August 14, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason: cleared up some muddy language |
August 14, 2009, 10:42 AM | #2 | |
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I'm glad that young woman was paying attention -- good for her!
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Get the license number of the car, and a description -- if the guy bails, the chances are he can be found, if this information is available. Call 911. Give first aid to the victim, if you're qualified to do so. (Everyone should have basic Red Cross first aid and CPR certification, IMO.) You're not a cop, and the welfare of the victim should be the first priority in this situation. Use deadly force if he looks like he might drive off?? NO. The fact that you have a gun doesn't mean that it's the solution to this particular problem; it's not your job to act based on what the driver might do, and certainly not to use deadly force on that basis.
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August 14, 2009, 10:48 AM | #3 | |
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My question was whether or not to use it if he seemed about to Re-run the victim over, or myself, or a bystander.
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August 14, 2009, 10:49 AM | #4 | |
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If you want to help, get the tag number off the car, or better yet a picture with your camera phone. Then give the victim whatever medical assistance you can, call 911, stop other traffic from hitting her, etc. If you were to truly to have witnessed this girl getting hit, your first priority should be helping her, not playing cop. Move your car to block traffic so she doesn't get hit again. Call 911 and give her whatever assistance you can until help arrives. |
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August 14, 2009, 10:53 AM | #5 | |
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August 14, 2009, 11:03 AM | #6 | |
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Umm, if he was about to re-run over the person (meaning this wasn't a hit and run, but a murder), I suppose deadly force would be justified in preventing that action. If it was you or a bystander, it would be fairly easy to get out of the way. What kind of people do you hang around with, anyway? |
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August 14, 2009, 11:05 AM | #7 |
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Before I had my CHL, I actually witnessed a hit and run where the driver hit the person, then ran off the road. When he backed up to get back on the road and drive away he hit the now injured person while they were laying on the ground. That's why I ask.
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August 14, 2009, 11:07 AM | #8 |
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In most cases, if you attempt to restrain him, you've committed an assault. Possibly kidnapping and illegal detainment, too. Carrying a concealed weapon gives you ABSOLUTELY NO police powers, including restraint, detainment, and/or arrest. What if you pull him out of the car and he pulls a gun on you, and yours still in the holster? NOW you're FUBARed. If you force him from the car at gunpoint, in SC, you've already "used deadly force". Your next action should be to get a GOOD lawyer - you'll need him.
Leave policing to the police. Get a description and license of the car, and a description of him, if possible. Note which way he left the scene. Render first aid to the victim, IF you're trained in that. There is a "third party defense" in most states that can get you into a LOT of trouble in court later. You wanna play cop? Join an agency and do it right. |
August 14, 2009, 11:11 AM | #9 | |||
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You are not a police officer.
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August 14, 2009, 11:12 AM | #10 | |
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August 14, 2009, 11:32 AM | #11 | |
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Lets all remember something when thinking about getting involved in situations that we aren't directly involved in, especially with a firearm - our only duty is to be sure we get home at the end of the day to our wife and kids, or family (or cat, in my case) and that we remain able to provide for them. If you do run across some savage car-murderer ala "Christine", tend to the wounded if you can and be a good witness. |
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August 14, 2009, 11:39 AM | #12 | |
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I would argue that under Ohio law, once I saw the individual backing up in a manner that might cause further injury to the victim, I would be justified in using deadly force. I don't think the intention of the person causing injury to the other person is really the deciding factor there?
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August 14, 2009, 11:46 AM | #13 | |||
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All I'm saying is that none of this is the first priority here. You're describing a situation that is not a hit and run, at the moment: it's a nasty accident with an injured pedestrian on the ground and the driver who hit her sitting in his car. It would be fine if you walked up to the car, said "Are you hurt?" and then acted accordingly. But if I'm that driver, sitting there shaking and realizing that one of my worst nightmares has just come true, and some guy comes up and tries to pull me out of the car and/or waves a gun at me, I am going to be really scared, followed by really angry. And I will be pressing charges for assault, later on. Your priority in this situation is to help the injured and be a good witness, not to assume that it's going to develop into a situation in which deadly force is called for. Quote:
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August 14, 2009, 11:55 AM | #14 |
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Post # 13
Well put, Vanya.
The original question has been rephrased, but my reaction is still the same as Dr. Strangelove's first: "Where is this fascination with playing cop lately coming from?". I think some people who put on a gun in the morning need to repeat several times "this is to protect me and mine, and only if absolutely necessary as a last resort. Otherwise it stays concealed." Several times, each day, until it sinks in. |
August 14, 2009, 12:04 PM | #15 | |
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Thanks, Oldmarksman...
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August 14, 2009, 12:17 PM | #16 | |
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August 14, 2009, 12:18 PM | #17 | |
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August 14, 2009, 12:50 PM | #18 | |
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August 14, 2009, 01:16 PM | #19 | ||
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August 14, 2009, 02:01 PM | #20 |
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Sparks2112,
Ponder this for a while. ...Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the "penalty" for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable. ... -- http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2003/19Mar03.html I don't know the laws in your state. You might, but I strongly suggest you go down to Superior Court or the equivalent in your county, and sit in on a couple of felony trials. It's a good, free education on what goes on for people who do get subjected to the tender mercies of the legal system. fwiw, lpl |
August 14, 2009, 02:40 PM | #21 |
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Point taken everyone. I feel I'm not expressing this fully, but honestly if I have to try that hard I'm probably wrong anyway.
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August 14, 2009, 08:14 PM | #22 |
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Time to close this one down. Good food for thought, but nowhere to go from here but in circles.
pax |
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