Need to confirm a gun store rumor

Deja vu · September 10, 2013, 12:27 AM

I was at a local gun shop and I talked about my idea to make a SBS 1887. The guy was intrigued but said I should leave the shoulder stock on it. I replied that I am planned to have both a pistol grip and a shoulder stock. He told me that I would have to pick just one for the form1.

Is that true or canI state on the paper work that it will have two different stock lengths?

HopeandChange · September 10, 2013, 08:23 AM

Pick one for the paperwork. Anything requiring brain cell activity will only confuse the examiner.

Now you may be dealing with 2 different classes of weapon. I think a pistol grip SBS is considered an AOW (any other weapon) or something.... and the stocked gun would be an SBS.

But since it's not a factory AOW, you're just going to be looking at an SBS.

You might run this by the NFA section on M4carbine.

Willie Lowman · September 10, 2013, 09:17 AM

To clarify Hopeandchange

A shotgun must have left the factory with a pistol grip and never had stock installed to be a AOW. If it is registered as a AWO it may never have a stock installed later on.

If you the OP wants to have a pistol grip and a full length stock all that is required by the ATF is that the gun be able to be readily restored to it's length stated on the form 1.

Beretta686 · September 10, 2013, 09:23 AM

It has to be an SBS, as it originally had a stock.

But on a side note, there's no reason to ever make an AOW via a Form 1, as you're going to have to pay $200 to register it. It's only the subsequent transfer via Form 4s that's $5 when it comes to AOWs.

As you're incurring the $200 tax either way, it's smarter to do an SBS as then you can add a stock or whatever you wish to it later on, unlike with an AOW (unless of course SBSs aren't legal where you live).

sf46 · September 16, 2013, 12:56 PM

Hope and Change and Willie are both correct from what I know of the situation.

James K · September 18, 2013, 10:03 PM

IIRC, the application form doesn't address the type of stock, but does ask the overall length. So if you changed from a full stock to a pistol grip type, doesn't that change the OAL, which changes the information in the NFRTR? Is that OK to do without notifying BATFE? Or if you want to switch back and forth, what are the legal ramifications?

At one time, I would have said that BATFE wouldn't care, but today it could be seen as invalidating the registration and/or committing a felony by lying on the Form.

Jim

September 10, 2013, 12:27 AM	#1
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	Need to confirm a gun store rumor I was at a local gun shop and I talked about my idea to make a SBS 1887. The guy was intrigued but said I should leave the shoulder stock on it. I replied that I am planned to have both a pistol grip and a shoulder stock. He told me that I would have to pick just one for the form1. Is that true or canI state on the paper work that it will have two different stock lengths? __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...

September 10, 2013, 09:17 AM	#3
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	To clarify Hopeandchange A shotgun must have left the factory with a pistol grip and never had stock installed to be a AOW. If it is registered as a AWO it may never have a stock installed later on. If you the OP wants to have a pistol grip and a full length stock all that is required by the ATF is that the gun be able to be readily restored to it's length stated on the form 1. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

September 10, 2013, 09:23 AM	#4
Beretta686 Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 761	It has to be an SBS, as it originally had a stock. But on a side note, there's no reason to ever make an AOW via a Form 1, as you're going to have to pay $200 to register it. It's only the subsequent transfer via Form 4s that's $5 when it comes to AOWs. As you're incurring the $200 tax either way, it's smarter to do an SBS as then you can add a stock or whatever you wish to it later on, unlike with an AOW (unless of course SBSs aren't legal where you live). __________________ "Our contract called for 16 cases of rifles and ammunition for $10,000 dollars, not a machine gun...........That is our present to the General"-Pike Bishop “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

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September 10, 2013, 08:23 AM	#2
HopeandChange Member Join Date: September 4, 2013 Location: AZ Posts: 65	Pick one for the paperwork. Anything requiring brain cell activity will only confuse the examiner. Now you may be dealing with 2 different classes of weapon. I think a pistol grip SBS is considered an AOW (any other weapon) or something.... and the stocked gun would be an SBS. But since it's not a factory AOW, you're just going to be looking at an SBS. You might run this by the NFA section on M4carbine.

September 16, 2013, 12:56 PM	#5
sf46 Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 14	Hope and Change and Willie are both correct from what I know of the situation.

September 18, 2013, 10:03 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, the application form doesn't address the type of stock, but does ask the overall length. So if you changed from a full stock to a pistol grip type, doesn't that change the OAL, which changes the information in the NFRTR? Is that OK to do without notifying BATFE? Or if you want to switch back and forth, what are the legal ramifications? At one time, I would have said that BATFE wouldn't care, but today it could be seen as invalidating the registration and/or committing a felony by lying on the Form. Jim