Stance/Body position

sigcurious · August 14, 2011, 03:21 PM

I started off by trying isosceles and weaver, neither felt very comfortable. Iso, I didn't feel stable enough, and weaver I felt stable but I have cross dominance in my eyes and found my sight picture difficult to maintain with both eyes open.

I've found the most comfortable position for me is a bladed foot position, left foot forward, right food back, but with my upper body squared to the target and in an isosceles position. Is this ok if it does not seem to be negatively effecting my shooting? As a new pistol shooter, I'd rather not train into a bad habit of a poor stance, but am unsure if this would even count as a bad habit.

farmerboy · August 14, 2011, 03:34 PM

If it feels comfortable to you and it works (you hit what youre aiming at) who cares! We all have to do what works for each of us. Period

g.willikers · August 14, 2011, 03:55 PM

Lots of folks use that exact stance, including me.
It works just fine.
Just be sure to find your natural point of aim and adjust the stance, accordingly.

Pahoo · August 14, 2011, 04:58 PM

I have tried all of the three shooting methods as religiously as I can and they still don't fit me. For one thing, I have trouble with my elbows. I suppose you could say that I use a modified Weaver/Chapman. Most of us would agree that it's all about being consistant, no matter what we do. ....

I once saw a guy on U-tube, that bowls backwards. You read this right !! This guy is fantastic and he is consistant as heck. I'm not advocating this method but not going to tell this guy he is wrong when he can out-bowl me any day

Be Safe !!!

Kimbertron · August 14, 2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

I've found the most comfortable position for me is a bladed foot position, left foot forward, right food back, but with my upper body squared to the target and in an isosceles position. Is this ok if it does not seem to be negatively effecting my shooting? As a new pistol shooter, I'd rather not train into a bad habit of a poor stance, but am unsure if this would even count as a bad habit.

This is pretty much how i shoot, it wasn't how i was taught but i slowly moved towards this over the years. For me it was the best way to manage recoil of large caliber handguns (i am only about 118 pounds). I tend to have to lean pretty far into it also.

sigcurious · August 14, 2011, 05:43 PM

Thanks for the info, hopefully I keep the progress on track and continue to see improvement in my shooting

Mr.Blue · August 14, 2011, 05:58 PM

The only problem that I can see is your foot placement. You may not be as steady as someone with shoulder width apart footing. I shoot isosceles with my strongside foot about a 1/2 a foot behind my weak side foot, still shoulder width apart. I also bend my knees a decent amount, like an old combat stance. I feel very stabile like that.

Make sure you feel balanced and stabile. It is very important. Good luck.

MadHatter1 · August 14, 2011, 07:19 PM

If you're a new shooter, as you mentioned, it may be worth the effort to teach yourself to shoot with your dominate eye/ non-dominate hand. It will be very akward at first, but will become natural with time.
As a senior NCO, I've supervised training and qualifications for mor soldiers than I can count. I've found that many of those that qualify poorly are often right handed, left eye dominate. After a few days of re-training, they're comfortable shooting left handed. Their scores invariably improve greatly.

sigcurious · August 14, 2011, 07:41 PM

The eye thing is only a problem for me if I have my entire body bladed, with my torso squared to the target, I can keep both eyes open and no switching to the wrong image issues. I do plan on incorporating offhand shooting into my practice though, once I can keep my groups a little tighter with my main hand.

As a reference, I currently shoot mostly in the 9 ring on a B-34 target at ranges of 7 and 12 yards, 6 strays (out of 50 rounds) in the 8 ring was my worst target today. Hopefully I'll get better with time, I still have to focus A LOT when I shoot DA, I suspect those first shots are the majority of my strays. Now if only I could make one big ragged hole on the target. instead of a bunch of little holes all close together hehe.

Big thanks to TFL'ers, I suspect I'd be shooting all over the target had I not found this forum and gleaned some great tips on pistol shooting

moose_nukelz · August 14, 2011, 08:51 PM

Upper body position is more important than lower body. On a flat range, you can get that ideal stance in a static environment but what happens when you start moving and shooting? That nice and stable shooting stance is out the window but your upper body mechanics still remain pretty much the same. I know I can shoot double and triple taps at a fast walk moving left/right and keep almost all my rounds within that 8-10 inch center mass circle

I be he · August 14, 2011, 09:11 PM

There is no guarantee you will be able to use whatever stance you decide on when defending yourself. Maybe you will be behind cover, close up kerfuffel, stairwell, between 2 cars, entering or leaving an elevator, and so on which may require more tactics, concentration and trigger control then a standardized stance.

Mr.Blue · August 14, 2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Upper body position is more important than lower body. On a flat range, you can get that ideal stance in a static environment but what happens when you start moving and shooting? That nice and stable shooting stance is out the window but your upper body mechanics still remain pretty much the same. I know I can shoot double and triple taps at a fast walk moving left/right and keep almost all my rounds within that 8-10 inch center mass circle

That may be, but your base is very important. Any good instructor will tell you that. Should you know how to shoot while moving or from other positions? Of course, but this guy said he is a beginner. I'm sure most of his shooting practice will be from a standing still position.

Mr.Blue · August 14, 2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

As a reference, I currently shoot mostly in the 9 ring on a B-34 target at ranges of 7 and 12 yards, 6 strays (out of 50 rounds) in the 8 ring was my worst target today. Hopefully I'll get better with time, I still have to focus A LOT when I shoot DA, I suspect those first shots are the majority of my strays. Now if only I could make one big ragged hole on the target. instead of a bunch of little holes all close together hehe

That's because you are using a Sig. If you used a CZ, every shot would be in the 10 ring.

45Gunner · August 14, 2011, 10:30 PM

If it works for you, it's right...even if it not conventional.

If you are shooting competitively and points are awarded for form, then use a conventional method. If you are practicing for self defense, what you are comfortable with and find your best accuracy, in all likelihood, that's what your are going to revert to anyway.

Have someone observe and evaluate you to make sure your weight distribution is properly loaded, i.e., will not throw you off balance with recoil; that important body parts are out of the line of fire, and your accuracy is not suffering.

It is nice to be able to shoot from all the standard and recognized positions but we are all individuals and flexibility and deviations are perfectly acceptable. Have at it and have fun.

sigcurious · August 14, 2011, 11:07 PM

I only have access to some indoor ranges, so I lack opportunity to do dynamic shooting just focusing on basics for now. Hopefully a few hours of private instruction or some group classes in the near future can help my progression. Hopefully as time progresses I'll be able to incorporate more training methods and hopefully find an outdoor range that's not too far away that will accomodate more dynamic training.

Hopefully I'll be able to shoot a sig and a cz sometime soon, a cz75 is definitely next on the list.

Nnobby45 · August 15, 2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

I've found the most comfortable position for me is a bladed foot position, left foot forward, right food back, but with my upper body squared to the target and in an isosceles position. Is this ok if it does not seem to be negatively effecting my shooting?

In Ayoob's book, Stress Fire, he described that as the stress fire position. At least it's very similar to yours.

moose_nukelz · August 15, 2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

That may be, but your base is very important. Any good instructor will tell you that. Should you know how to shoot while moving or from other positions? Of course, but this guy said he is a beginner. I'm sure most of his shooting practice will be from a standing still position.

I am not saying lower body isn't important, but if your upper body is not doing what it needs to do for managing recoil then it doesn't matter how perfect your lower body stance is.

threegun · August 15, 2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

There is no guarantee you will be able to use whatever stance you decide on when defending yourself. Maybe you will be behind cover, close up kerfuffel, stairwell, between 2 cars, entering or leaving an elevator, and so on which may require more tactics, concentration and trigger control then a standardized stance.

Well said.

I teach my students to shoot from whatever stance both feels comfortable and affords a stable shooting platform.

It doesn't matter what position you are in or shooting from as long as you are stable, good shooting is possible.

I have shot in some very weird positions during competition. I mean even while standing on one leg leaning holding the pistol with one hand and using the other against a wall to keep me from falling. Stability seems to be the most important factor, more than comfort.

August 14, 2011, 03:21 PM	#1
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	Stance/Body position I started off by trying isosceles and weaver, neither felt very comfortable. Iso, I didn't feel stable enough, and weaver I felt stable but I have cross dominance in my eyes and found my sight picture difficult to maintain with both eyes open. I've found the most comfortable position for me is a bladed foot position, left foot forward, right food back, but with my upper body squared to the target and in an isosceles position. Is this ok if it does not seem to be negatively effecting my shooting? As a new pistol shooter, I'd rather not train into a bad habit of a poor stance, but am unsure if this would even count as a bad habit.

August 14, 2011, 03:55 PM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Lots of folks use that exact stance, including me. It works just fine. Just be sure to find your natural point of aim and adjust the stance, accordingly. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 14, 2011, 04:58 PM	#4
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Been there and still working on it. I have tried all of the three shooting methods as religiously as I can and they still don't fit me. For one thing, I have trouble with my elbows. I suppose you could say that I use a modified Weaver/Chapman. Most of us would agree that it's all about being consistant, no matter what we do. .... I once saw a guy on U-tube, that bowls backwards. You read this right !! This guy is fantastic and he is consistant as heck. I'm not advocating this method but not going to tell this guy he is wrong when he can out-bowl me any day Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

August 14, 2011, 05:58 PM	#7
Mr.Blue Junior member Join Date: May 30, 2011 Location: SE Wisconsin & Long Island, NY Posts: 418	The only problem that I can see is your foot placement. You may not be as steady as someone with shoulder width apart footing. I shoot isosceles with my strongside foot about a 1/2 a foot behind my weak side foot, still shoulder width apart. I also bend my knees a decent amount, like an old combat stance. I feel very stabile like that. Make sure you feel balanced and stabile. It is very important. Good luck. Last edited by Mr.Blue; August 15, 2011 at 12:32 AM.

August 14, 2011, 08:51 PM	#10
moose_nukelz Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2011 Posts: 125	Upper body position is more important than lower body. On a flat range, you can get that ideal stance in a static environment but what happens when you start moving and shooting? That nice and stable shooting stance is out the window but your upper body mechanics still remain pretty much the same. I know I can shoot double and triple taps at a fast walk moving left/right and keep almost all my rounds within that 8-10 inch center mass circle __________________ Bust em

August 14, 2011, 03:34 PM	#2
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	If it feels comfortable to you and it works (you hit what youre aiming at) who cares! We all have to do what works for each of us. Period

August 14, 2011, 05:43 PM	#6
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	Thanks for the info, hopefully I keep the progress on track and continue to see improvement in my shooting

August 14, 2011, 07:19 PM	#8
MadHatter1 Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 151	If you're a new shooter, as you mentioned, it may be worth the effort to teach yourself to shoot with your dominate eye/ non-dominate hand. It will be very akward at first, but will become natural with time. As a senior NCO, I've supervised training and qualifications for mor soldiers than I can count. I've found that many of those that qualify poorly are often right handed, left eye dominate. After a few days of re-training, they're comfortable shooting left handed. Their scores invariably improve greatly.

August 14, 2011, 07:41 PM	#9
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	The eye thing is only a problem for me if I have my entire body bladed, with my torso squared to the target, I can keep both eyes open and no switching to the wrong image issues. I do plan on incorporating offhand shooting into my practice though, once I can keep my groups a little tighter with my main hand. As a reference, I currently shoot mostly in the 9 ring on a B-34 target at ranges of 7 and 12 yards, 6 strays (out of 50 rounds) in the 8 ring was my worst target today. Hopefully I'll get better with time, I still have to focus A LOT when I shoot DA, I suspect those first shots are the majority of my strays. Now if only I could make one big ragged hole on the target. instead of a bunch of little holes all close together hehe. Big thanks to TFL'ers, I suspect I'd be shooting all over the target had I not found this forum and gleaned some great tips on pistol shooting

August 14, 2011, 09:11 PM	#11
I be he Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Posts: 20	There is no guarantee you will be able to use whatever stance you decide on when defending yourself. Maybe you will be behind cover, close up kerfuffel, stairwell, between 2 cars, entering or leaving an elevator, and so on which may require more tactics, concentration and trigger control then a standardized stance.

August 14, 2011, 10:30 PM	#14
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	If it works for you, it's right...even if it not conventional. If you are shooting competitively and points are awarded for form, then use a conventional method. If you are practicing for self defense, what you are comfortable with and find your best accuracy, in all likelihood, that's what your are going to revert to anyway. Have someone observe and evaluate you to make sure your weight distribution is properly loaded, i.e., will not throw you off balance with recoil; that important body parts are out of the line of fire, and your accuracy is not suffering. It is nice to be able to shoot from all the standard and recognized positions but we are all individuals and flexibility and deviations are perfectly acceptable. Have at it and have fun. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

August 14, 2011, 11:07 PM	#15
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	I only have access to some indoor ranges, so I lack opportunity to do dynamic shooting just focusing on basics for now. Hopefully a few hours of private instruction or some group classes in the near future can help my progression. Hopefully as time progresses I'll be able to incorporate more training methods and hopefully find an outdoor range that's not too far away that will accomodate more dynamic training. Hopefully I'll be able to shoot a sig and a cz sometime soon, a cz75 is definitely next on the list.