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February 9, 2022, 02:44 PM | #26 | ||||
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The charging authority may choose not to charge, but that does not confer immunity; they can charge as long as immunity has not been granted by the courts, or any statutory limitations have run out Quote:
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For the third time, the burden of proof for a criminal defendant is a lot lower at trial than it is in an immunity hearing. Last edited by OldMarksman; February 9, 2022 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Correction |
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February 9, 2022, 06:08 PM | #27 | ||
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No court required. Now that is using the legal definition of court synonymous with Judge or judges as in a Judicial Tribunal established to administer justice. Last time I dealt in the Criminal Court System...judges do not bring charges, prosecutors do. If the investigation concludes there is not enough evidence for the prosecution to bring before a Grand Jury then we have no charges. Quote:
It does say the burden of proof FOR THE STATE is higher at the pre-trial immunity hearing. In order to charge someone and not declare the use of force lawful, the state has to prove that it was not lawful self defense to a higher standard than the person claiming self defense. I do not know how else to state it. Last edited by davidsog; February 9, 2022 at 06:33 PM. |
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February 9, 2022, 06:30 PM | #28 | ||||
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At trial, in all states, criminal conviction requires proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt--meaning that the burden of proof for the defendant is low. In a tort case, a preponderance of the evidence wins it for either side. I have been saying that since the beginning. Do you somehow believe it not to be true? |
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February 9, 2022, 06:40 PM | #29 | |
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I edit'd my reply in order to clarify. You replied just as I finished. Talking about trial vs pre-trial just confuses things and the statute says nothing about evidence levels at trial.
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The Police would conduct the investigation as they would conduct any criminal investigation. If they find enough evidence then a DA will bring it before a Grand Jury. If they do not find enough evidence, then it is a lawful use of force. Everything else can come down to the fact it was clearly stated the statute applies to Florida and Florida only. You need to check your state laws and abide by them. No need to morph the discussion into something that was never said. |
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February 9, 2022, 06:59 PM | #30 | |||
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Legally, nether would establish the use of force to have been lawful, and either can be reversed. And absent a court judgment granting immunity, civii plaintiffs are free to proceed, regardless of what the DA decides. Got it? |
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February 9, 2022, 08:53 PM | #31 | ||
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Lawful use of force is immune to both civil and criminal prosecution in Florida. Quote:
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February 10, 2022, 08:54 AM | #32 | ||
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We have gone around and around on this. We cannot tell whether you remain badly confused or you are deliberately being argumentative. Do not raise this issue again. |
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February 10, 2022, 10:01 AM | #33 |
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I don't want to ever subject myself to our broken legal system, or even worse to the whims of a jury of my peers, therefore, if you ever hear that I used deadly force, rest assured that there was literally no other way for me to survive.
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February 10, 2022, 10:02 AM | #34 | ||||||
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Right now, the law in Florida is you do not need an immunity hearing if you are not charged. The law grants you immunity by that simple fact. Until clarified by the Supreme Court. AFAIK, the only clarification the Florida Supreme Court has given on this issue the fact the statute as intended by the Legislation favors the defendant. Here is a case that shows just how much the courts wrangle with this.... Quote:
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In the case of No charges = No Requirement for immunity hearing = Immunity Protection under the law. Could someone file a civil case? Sure. That filing would trigger the Immunity hearing which would be granted. That filing in civil court would be a waste of time; which is what most attorney's will tell you. Quote:
I certainly agree this topic is dead and I have no desire to further discuss it. Last edited by davidsog; February 10, 2022 at 10:09 AM. |
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February 10, 2022, 05:33 PM | #35 |
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Join Date: September 11, 2007
Location: St Paul
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Two things:
Your permit is not a Batman badge. Too many people have ideas of intervening in others' personal conflicts or being a hero and stopping an armed robbery of another. Don't. If you shoot someone, and everything is perfect, and you are not even charged, it will still cost you ten grand, minimum, for most any civil suit. Good luck. |
February 10, 2022, 07:33 PM | #36 |
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Act accordingly
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