Rookie question! .32 revolver vs .32 ACP? - Page 2

Cosmodragoon · March 3, 2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

.32 H&R Magnum - A lengthened, more powerful version of the .32 Long. Never particularly popular, but still encountered.

.327 Federal - Longer than the H&R and more powerful. Designed to give a 6 shot compact revolver with power approaching the .357 Magnum. Neat concept, but appears to be dying.

The .32 H&R Magnum enjoyed moderate popularity. It was comparable to standard-pressure .38 special in terms of power and recoil but allowed an extra shot on the wheel. This made it great for alloy-framed snubbies. It looks like Charter Arms is still producing their little Undercoverette in .32 H&R Magnum.

The .327 Fed Mag is not dying! A bunch of new guns just came out for it. It achieves power levels between 9mm and .357 magnum. Lighter loads recoil like .38 +p. It picks up a lot with longer barrels. Some of the recent offerings include the 7-shot GP100 in five and six-inch barrels, and the Henry Rifle in sixteen and twenty-inch barrels. The cheapest commercial load gets up around 2200 fps from the 20" rifle.

Jim Watson · March 3, 2018, 02:20 PM

People do strange things.
A Cowboy of my acquaintance had a set* of .32 H&R, the Ruger "Vaquerito" revolvers and the scarce Marlin lever action. Did he blip away with mild loads for HSLD shooting? No, he loaded them to the maximum allowed by SASS, 1000 fps revolver, 1400 fps rifle.

*Cowboy shooters speak of "sets" of guns. This means two revolvers and a lever action, normally in the same caliber. Affluent enthusiasts - the guy above is both - will have multiple sets of guns to suit their taste on any given day. You have to have a shotgun, too but you don't necessarily have to have one for every set of rifle and pistol.

TruthTellers · March 3, 2018, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon

The .32 H&R Magnum enjoyed moderate popularity. It was comparable to standard-pressure .38 special in terms of power and recoil but allowed an extra shot on the wheel. This made it great for alloy-framed snubbies. It looks like Charter Arms is still producing their little Undercoverette in .32 H&R Magnum.

The .327 Fed Mag is not dying! A bunch of new guns just came out for it. It achieves power levels between 9mm and .357 magnum. Lighter loads recoil like .38 +p. It picks up a lot with longer barrels. Some of the recent offerings include the 7-shot GP100 in five and six-inch barrels, and the Henry Rifle in sixteen and twenty-inch barrels. The cheapest commercial load gets up around 2200 fps from the 20" rifle.

Charter still makes a .32 H&R Mag, but it's only a 5 shot. With 5 shots, I'd rather have a .38+P.

It's odd too because when .327 came out, they made it with a 6 round cylinder. Charter has made 6 shot revolvers before, but now all they focus on is 5 in centerfire, 6 in rimfire.

Cosmodragoon · March 3, 2018, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Charter still makes a .32 H&R Mag, but it's only a 5 shot. With 5 shots, I'd rather have a .38+P.

It's odd too because when .327 came out, they made it with a 6 round cylinder. Charter has made 6 shot revolvers before, but now all they focus on is 5 in centerfire, 6 in rimfire.

The Undercoverette is actually smaller than a J-frame. It's a petite little revolver so I understand only having five shots and not making it in .327 Fed Mag. The one they released in .327 was their Patriot, which I think is built on the same frame as their larger Bulldog.

**Mike Irwin** · March 4, 2018, 06:47 AM

"The .32 H&R Magnum enjoyed moderate popularity. "

Moderate popularity and never particularly popular are really the same thing.

gwpercle · March 6, 2018, 08:18 PM

When I first got into shooting and reloading one of the most informative books I ever bought was " Cartridges of the World" it contains info on current and obsolete American and foreign Ammunition. Has drawings, limited reloading data and info on just about every round every made in a factory. Descriptions of 1500 different calibers. Still in print too.
Very good reference book that will answer a lot of ammo questions.
Gary

kymasabe · March 8, 2018, 09:41 PM

.32 acp does have slight rim, and is susceptible to rimlock.

James K · March 8, 2018, 10:47 PM

First, we need to understand the term "case support". In order to get uniform primer ignition (and uniform reliability and accuracy) it is necessary for a cartridge case to be supported against the blow of the firing pin. Traditionally, this was done by using the cartridge rim, which not only provided case support, but also was used for extraction of the fired case.

But, around 1900, some folks hit on the idea of a magazine fed or even an automatic or auto loading firearm. The best way to get that working well was to eliminate that pesky rim and just cut a groove in the case for extraction. But then, how to stop the case and support it against the firing pin blow? The desire to also increase the power of the cartridge led to a neat solution where the cartridge was made with a shoulder and neck - that allowed more powder space, and at the same time the shoulder provided for case support and ease of feeding. That worked well and when the idea of an auto loading pistol came along, the natural step was to make he cartridge with a bottle neck, copying the rifle cartridge design of the era.

But the pistol cartridge had a lot less space for powder and that limited its potential power. Two designers, on opposite sides of the Atlantic, found themselves with the same problem. John Browning simply could not figure out how to get proper support as well as extraction for an auto pistol cartridge any other way than by using the rim, so he reduced the rim to a minimum consistent with reliable feeding. In the meantime, one Georg Luger, in Germany, had a problem of a slightly different kind. He had a pistol which worked OK with a cartridge having a shoulder (7.65mm Parabellum), but his government wanted a pistol of a bigger caliber and redesigning the current model for a larger overall cartridge meant years of work. But simply loading a larger diameter bullet meant no shoulder was possible (though he tried), so he decided to support the case on its mouth, using case tension and careful chambering to avoid the deep crimp hitherto used at the case mouth.

Browning, meanwhile, continued on the path to the minimum rim size, and his .25 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), .32 ACP, 9mm Long, and .38 ACP all were produced with small but effective rims, at the cost of some feeding problems.

But, at some point, possibly during one of the early U.S. auto pistol trials, Browning encountered the 9mm Parabellum (the German trade name for Luger's pistol) and realized that here was a pistol cartridge that had no rim, yet which was well supported. That was the end of the tiny rim on Browning's cartridges. The two Browning cartridges designed after that, the .380 ACP and the .45 ACP, were rimless, with only an extraction groove, but no true rim.

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · March 9, 2018, 08:28 AM

I thought that the 7.65 Roth-Sauer was the first straight walled semi-auto cartridge to headspace on the cartridge mouth...

Hal · March 11, 2018, 07:26 AM

Quote:

When I first got into shooting and reloading one of the most informative books I ever bought was " Cartridges of the World"

Outstanding book!

Cheapshooter · March 11, 2018, 02:02 PM

Here is a recommendation for any rookie. Even interesting reading for the more experienced who have never really looked into the amazing number of cartridges from past to present day.
Well worth the thirty bucks! (Less if you shop around)
https://www.amazon.com/Cartridges-Wo...s+of+the+world

Hal · March 12, 2018, 10:30 AM

A lot of older versions of COTW can be found for a real discounted price at gun shows and online.
Same thing with older reloading manuals - which can be a treasure trove of information also.

March 4, 2018, 06:47 AM	#30
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"The .32 H&R Magnum enjoyed moderate popularity. " Moderate popularity and never particularly popular are really the same thing. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 8, 2018, 09:41 PM	#32
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	.32 acp does have slight rim, and is susceptible to rimlock. __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

March 9, 2018, 08:28 AM	#34
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I thought that the 7.65 Roth-Sauer was the first straight walled semi-auto cartridge to headspace on the cartridge mouth... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 11, 2018, 02:02 PM	#36
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Here is a recommendation for any rookie. Even interesting reading for the more experienced who have never really looked into the amazing number of cartridges from past to present day. Well worth the thirty bucks! (Less if you shop around) https://www.amazon.com/Cartridges-Wo...s+of+the+world __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

March 3, 2018, 02:20 PM	#27
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	People do strange things. A Cowboy of my acquaintance had a set* of .32 H&R, the Ruger "Vaquerito" revolvers and the scarce Marlin lever action. Did he blip away with mild loads for HSLD shooting? No, he loaded them to the maximum allowed by SASS, 1000 fps revolver, 1400 fps rifle. *Cowboy shooters speak of "sets" of guns. This means two revolvers and a lever action, normally in the same caliber. Affluent enthusiasts - the guy above is both - will have multiple sets of guns to suit their taste on any given day. You have to have a shotgun, too but you don't necessarily have to have one for every set of rifle and pistol.

March 6, 2018, 08:18 PM	#31
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	When I first got into shooting and reloading one of the most informative books I ever bought was " Cartridges of the World" it contains info on current and obsolete American and foreign Ammunition. Has drawings, limited reloading data and info on just about every round every made in a factory. Descriptions of 1500 different calibers. Still in print too. Very good reference book that will answer a lot of ammo questions. Gary

March 8, 2018, 10:47 PM	#33
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	First, we need to understand the term "case support". In order to get uniform primer ignition (and uniform reliability and accuracy) it is necessary for a cartridge case to be supported against the blow of the firing pin. Traditionally, this was done by using the cartridge rim, which not only provided case support, but also was used for extraction of the fired case. But, around 1900, some folks hit on the idea of a magazine fed or even an automatic or auto loading firearm. The best way to get that working well was to eliminate that pesky rim and just cut a groove in the case for extraction. But then, how to stop the case and support it against the firing pin blow? The desire to also increase the power of the cartridge led to a neat solution where the cartridge was made with a shoulder and neck - that allowed more powder space, and at the same time the shoulder provided for case support and ease of feeding. That worked well and when the idea of an auto loading pistol came along, the natural step was to make he cartridge with a bottle neck, copying the rifle cartridge design of the era. But the pistol cartridge had a lot less space for powder and that limited its potential power. Two designers, on opposite sides of the Atlantic, found themselves with the same problem. John Browning simply could not figure out how to get proper support as well as extraction for an auto pistol cartridge any other way than by using the rim, so he reduced the rim to a minimum consistent with reliable feeding. In the meantime, one Georg Luger, in Germany, had a problem of a slightly different kind. He had a pistol which worked OK with a cartridge having a shoulder (7.65mm Parabellum), but his government wanted a pistol of a bigger caliber and redesigning the current model for a larger overall cartridge meant years of work. But simply loading a larger diameter bullet meant no shoulder was possible (though he tried), so he decided to support the case on its mouth, using case tension and careful chambering to avoid the deep crimp hitherto used at the case mouth. Browning, meanwhile, continued on the path to the minimum rim size, and his .25 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), .32 ACP, 9mm Long, and .38 ACP all were produced with small but effective rims, at the cost of some feeding problems. But, at some point, possibly during one of the early U.S. auto pistol trials, Browning encountered the 9mm Parabellum (the German trade name for Luger's pistol) and realized that here was a pistol cartridge that had no rim, yet which was well supported. That was the end of the tiny rim on Browning's cartridges. The two Browning cartridges designed after that, the .380 ACP and the .45 ACP, were rimless, with only an extraction groove, but no true rim. Jim

March 12, 2018, 10:30 AM	#37
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	A lot of older versions of COTW can be found for a real discounted price at gun shows and online. Same thing with older reloading manuals - which can be a treasure trove of information also.