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Old March 1, 2018, 05:04 PM   #51
JN01
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Originally Posted by RC20 View Post



In short he will throw gun owners under the bus if it gets him some kind of glory (at leas tin his mind). Democrats may be the boogey person) they at least believe in the rule of law and the process even if you disagree on the law in questions.

Like a majority of gun owners, I would like a discussion and looking into various aspects of some restraint on guns that does not take them away.

If that is a licensing process, non high capacity magazines, gun sales restricted until 21, a community background check.

Any law can be sun settled in 5 to 10 years.

I know one guy is a serious gun owner that thinks ARs should have a 2k tax on them.

In the end, this country gets handed off to a new generation, its going to be something other than white majority and its going to go where they take it not us.

We are seeing a shift in access to the public. The NRA model is no longer the only one in town, NRA does not control social media and they are not remotely good at it.

The Parkland kids got ahead on the issue and they have maintained it. That's the new generation. They are vastly more media savy that I was in high school and they have the tools to get that message out and across.
Democrats believe in the rule of law and process? You have got to be kidding. Remember Fast and Furious? IRS targeting of conservative groups? Violations of the Espionage Act by Clinton, Obama,and Co? All buried by Democrats and their minions. Democrats had no problem with misidentified SS and VA benefit recipients being stripped of their gun rights without due process.

Your ideas for gun controls that "won't take them away" by their very nature will facilitate just that. Licenses can be easily denied and/or be made unaffordable. The time needed to do "community checks" could be stretched out indefinitely, or again, made unaffordable to most people. What is a high capacity magazine? NY seemed to think over 7 rounds was too many. Why some arbitrary number?

Democrats smell blood in the water, they aren't going to have any interest in a sunset provision like the first AWB had.

You have a valid point on the NRA needing to be better on social media.

I'm not sure it was just the Parkland kids being on the issue, they had lots of help from the usual suspects. I think they were just waiting for the next tragedy with a plan to use kids in such a manner.
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Old March 1, 2018, 05:09 PM   #52
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My guess is Trump wants a record vote on a big package of gun control because he thinks that is a loser issue for the Dems and he wants GOP to be able to go into midterms with some progun votes against a heinous bill.
Of course, if enough gutless, wishy-washy Republicans vote to pass it, that could be a YUUUGE miscalculation.
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Old March 1, 2018, 05:13 PM   #53
In The Ten Ring
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Of course, if enough gutless, wishy-washy Republicans vote to pass it, that could be a YUUUGE miscalculation.

Only for those that voted for Trump......

"but, but, but we got a conservative on the Supreme Court!" And what happens with the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case? That has happened already.

And what happens if Trump gets another SC appointment and this time, doesn't appoint a conservative or the one he does appoint turns out be like Roberts on ACA?

I see now how the prediction "Trump will destroy the Republican Party" might have been correct.

Last edited by In The Ten Ring; March 1, 2018 at 06:13 PM.
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Old March 1, 2018, 06:05 PM   #54
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It’s almost as if he can’t be trusted, go figure.
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Old March 1, 2018, 06:44 PM   #55
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Never trust a politician, lawyer or billionaire... someone told me that growing up.
Stripping rights, before due process, should be concerning to all no matter your political affiliations.

I have always been convinced that nearly all of our leaders want us disarmed; some just use second amendment to gather votes.
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Old March 1, 2018, 08:19 PM   #56
Tom Servo
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If anything, we need to learn a big lesson as a nation: stop voting based on slogans and emotional appeals.

The President's history on 2nd Amendment issues is no secret. As far back as 1996, he was on record supporting bans on "assault weapons" and waiting periods. It was foolish for the NRA to blow $53 million on his campaign just because he wasn't the other guy.
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Old March 1, 2018, 08:21 PM   #57
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Never trust a politician, lawyer or billionaire..
.

I was also raised to distrust folks with money or position. As an adult I have come to know that judging people by what they do or have is a very poor way of determining their character.
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Old March 1, 2018, 08:48 PM   #58
thallub
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What are the Parkland kids supposed to do? Going back to school quietly has not worked. Kids are dying because violent nutcases are shooting up schools. Adults have a very sorry record when it comes to addressing school massacres. Go kids!!!

Meanwhile every proposal to improve the reporting of mental cases to NICS is met with disapproval from gun owners: "Slippery slope" and all that.

Yep, folks get on the boards and blame "liberals" video games, moral decay, and other stuff for school massacres. IMO: The biggest factor in this stuff was no fault divorce. Ronald Reagan signed the first no fault divorce statute into law in 1969 in CA. He regretted that action for the rest of his life. No fault divorce is law in 50 states.

Millions of boys are being raised by females with little or no interaction with their fathers. i'm a Big Brother. My record mentoring boys is not great. However, one fatherless boy i mentored is a US Army special operations officer.

A boy growing up in a fatherless home is often floundering.
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Old March 1, 2018, 09:01 PM   #59
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I’ve asked how one defines “mental healthcare” to a point that allows restriction of rights outside the legal system
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Old March 1, 2018, 09:39 PM   #60
In The Ten Ring
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"go kids?" Go where? Demand pointless new laws? Scream at and shout down gun owners and their advocates?

Govt failed those students every step of the way but somehow, more govt won't. Right.
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Old March 1, 2018, 09:43 PM   #61
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You are consistent, if nothing else. You want "well thought out and considered action, not knee jerk" and then make a knee jerk statement like the above. I am weary hearing about liberal politicians who are advocating the gutting of the second amendment who "believe in the rule of law" or their love of "the process."
I said rule of law, I don't say right laws or agree with the laws, but laws passed and on the books.

Some want knee jerk reactions because of a long pent up failure to deal with the impact of guns (that includes suicide, gangs killing each other, killing innocent people in the area etc)

As much as I detested Miranda at the time, it also has stopped gross abuses of police officers of no integrity that beat out confessions.

I see issues with both side and want to explore ideas and solutions. When I hear one then I can support it. It may make no difference, but its what I can do.
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Old March 1, 2018, 10:12 PM   #62
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As much as I detested Miranda at the time, it also has stopped gross abuses of police officers of no integrity that beat out confessions.
That sir is a grand mischaractorization. Certainly cops have abused folks in time past with the "third degree," but that practice was already long a thing of the past by 1966 when Miranda was decided. There is a great leap between police "beating out confessions" and failing to tell someone that what they say will be used against them, and they have a right to an attorney.

Also don't forget that Ernesto Miranda was later convicted again during retail. Not that this would give any cops authority to "beat out a confession." But... The thing is, they didn't.
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Old March 2, 2018, 03:49 AM   #63
In The Ten Ring
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I noticed how Dana Loesch tip-toed around the issue of Trump yesterday morning and how Fox News has largely avoided criticism. Now if Obama had said this, well, you know the reaction would have been much different!

I guess they've shook him up enough to keep him on message for the time being but I would still put our position as "shaky."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...r-meeting.html
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Old March 2, 2018, 07:12 AM   #64
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"go kids?" Go where? Demand pointless new laws? Scream at and shout down gun owners and their advocates?
At least they are trying to do something. Better than the nothing we have done since columbine. Oh sure we have done some things that haven't worked at all. But there are still no bullet proof doors/windows at schools. Still no security guards. Still no bolt locks on doors. Teachers still can't carry. ISIS supporters identified by the FBI can still buy guns...i mean the list goes on. How can you blame these kids for wanting action? Guns are an easy target and its going to get to the point where they are banned because no one is doing anything else.

Quote:
I noticed how Dana Loesch tip-toed around the issue of Trump yesterday morning and how Fox News has largely avoided criticism. Now if Obama had said this, well, you know the reaction would have been much different!
This is not surprising. Foxnews is entertainment, not news. Ratings don't go up if they start rallying against Trump. Rallying against Obama got viewers. Heck they probably had a main page article about Hillary or Obama yesterday, they do everyday.
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Old March 2, 2018, 08:30 AM   #65
5whiskey
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Foxnews is entertainment, not news.
So what constitutes "news" and not entertainment. Let me guess... MSNBC
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Old March 2, 2018, 09:02 AM   #66
adamBomb
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So what constitutes "news" and not entertainment. Let me guess... MSNBC
You really don't know? You really think my response would be MSNBC?
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Old March 2, 2018, 09:02 AM   #67
zukiphile
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Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring
I noticed how Dana Loesch tip-toed around the issue of Trump yesterday morning and how Fox News has largely avoided criticism. Now if Obama had said this, well, you know the reaction would have been much different!
I commend you for watching Fox News enough to know what they aren't largely covering. That you've acknowledged that Fox News did feature criticism of the due process comments does indicate the presence of that view on Fox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBomb
This is not surprising. Foxnews is entertainment, not news. Ratings don't go up if they start rallying against Trump. Rallying against Obama got viewers. Heck they probably had a main page article about Hillary or Obama yesterday, they do everyday.
This insight of a daily Fox News viewer adds much to this conversation.


Is it possible that despite the unsound character of seeking a warrant after taking an action, people don't think his proposal reflected consideration or even intent, and that this will never come to fruition, so it isn't a story of great magnitude?

Last edited by zukiphile; March 2, 2018 at 10:12 AM.
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Old March 2, 2018, 12:17 PM   #68
Glenn E. Meyer
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This has wandered far from the charge of this forum.

Thus, closed.
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