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Old October 27, 2016, 04:33 AM   #1
dgludwig
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Optics for Bullseye

Does someone know when "red dots" or its ilk become "legal" for sanctioned Bullseye matches? Was the use of same initially ever challenged by iron sights only advocates? Or were these non-magnifying devices always legitimate to aim with in Bullseye competition?
Thanks.
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Old October 27, 2016, 12:35 PM   #2
T. O'Heir
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"...sanctioned Bullseye matches..." Sanctioning depends on who's rules are being followed. No optics allowed in ISSF(Olympic) but optics are ok for NRA Conventional Pistol.
Anyway, dot sights have only been around for roughly 30 years. And not all red dots are suitable. Dots can be too big.
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Old October 27, 2016, 12:50 PM   #3
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Glad you asked this question. I'm just starting my adventure into Bullseye. Just went and shot my workups yesterday.

I'm planning to use irons though so I can learn the game.


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Old October 27, 2016, 02:31 PM   #4
dgludwig
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The question hasn't been answered yet. I'm still interested in when this "travesty" (allowing sights other than optics became "legal" in NRA sanctioned events) became legitimized. As you might guess by now, I'm a "fringe element", wondering when (and how) Bullseye shooting started catering to shooters who wanted the game to be easier to score better with.

"Irons" are the way to start with-and to end with, imo.
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Old October 27, 2016, 04:05 PM   #5
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red dot optics and / or pistol scopes became legal in NRA conventional pistol competition (AKA Bullseye) around 1989. Pistol scopes were first & then soon thereafter, Aimpoint came out with their red dot.
I started with a 2X Bushnell scope, then a 2x Leupold, then an Aimpoint. Still have the .45 with the IMI knockoff of an Aimpoint on it. That knockoff was sold to competitors by the then National Champion in conventional pistol.
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Old October 27, 2016, 04:37 PM   #6
dgludwig
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Thanks, velocette.
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Old October 28, 2016, 09:31 AM   #7
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NRA Bullseye scope , aim point history

Good place to ask. http://www.bullseyeforum.net/ I remember scopes being first used in the 70's when i was competing. I remember a shooter having a perfect 300 on the indoor Gallery Course with 22lr.

I tried a 4x on a High Standard Victor Dec 1980, to much power for me. Shot worse.

Quote:
The Aimpoint AB is a manufacturing company founded in 1974 and is based in Malmö, Sweden.
Shot a lot of indoor with this system. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...yePistol01.jpg

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Old October 28, 2016, 09:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
The tradition of utilizing open iron sights in bullseye was first challenged with the introduction of the "Bullseye Pistol Scope" by Burris in the 1960s.
http://bullseyepistol.com/dotsight.htm Google knows all.
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Old October 28, 2016, 02:31 PM   #9
dgludwig
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Thanks to all for your insightful inputs. But I'm still wondering when you could "legally" start using an "optic" at NRA sanctioned Bullseye matches, like at Camp Perry. Were the rules changed to accommodate optics or did shooters just start using them because they were never officially prohibited? Velocette said "around 1989." Was there an "official" mandate issued from the NRA?
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Old October 28, 2016, 05:40 PM   #10
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Email the NRA. They'll probably be able to give you an exact date!


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Old October 28, 2016, 05:51 PM   #11
243winxb
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Still looking. Found this
Quote:
Joe Pascarella, 1981 .45 ACP na-
tional pistol champ at Camp Perry. He
outpointed 845 other contestants with
his AIMPOINT sight. And, he racked
up his championship in a gusty wind!
We'd also like you to know that
Master Sergeant Bonnie Hannon fin-
ished six points behind Joe. You can
guess what sight he has mounted on
his handguns- AIMPOINT, of course!
Date of photo not found.


Photo from http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/brian-zins/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tmp_10221-zins01-965344481.jpg (26.8 KB, 225 views)

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Old November 24, 2016, 12:46 AM   #12
John C
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My understanding is that it wasn't "allowed" or "prohibited". The rules never addressed sighting methods. As mentioned earlier, Gil Hebard introduced pistol scopes, and the rest is history.

Basically, the rules didn't prohibit optic sights because no one considered the possibility in the 1940s and 50s.
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Old November 28, 2016, 08:50 PM   #13
dgludwig
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QUOTE: "...Basically, the rules didn't prohibit optic sights because no one considered the possibility in the 1940s and 50s..."

I guess that makes about as much sense as anything else does. I'm just surprised the sanctioning body(s) didn't take into account the sights like they did almost everything else (size of pistol/barrel length/trigger-pull weight, ammunition, etc.).
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Old December 16, 2016, 03:28 PM   #14
darkgael
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Optics

"Irons are the way to start with and end with".
I disagree (and I shoot with irons).
Easier to shoot better? Are they? Have the records increased substantially since optics were allowed? Bill Blankenship's record of 2674 stood for many years. Shot with irons. It was eclipsed in 1974 by Herschel Anderson's 2680. Still the National record - also shot with irons (iirc). Second place since 2012 has been John Zurek's 2679...don't know what sights Mr. Zurek used.
Are optics easier to use? Y'know, with irons one at least gets the illusion that the sights stop moving. With a dot sight, that never happens. The dot always dances. What the optic does is allow focus on the both the dot and the target together. That allows shooters with failing eyesight to continue to shoot when
their eyes will not accommodate irons. That is a good thing.
In any case, shooting well involves much more than the differences between iron and optical sights.
The magic is still trigger control.
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Old December 17, 2016, 12:33 PM   #15
dgludwig
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QUOTE: "... What the optic does is allow focus on the both the dot and the target together..."

Which, of course, makes optics "easier to use". Which is why most all serious shooters today use optics, whether they have failing eyesight or 20/20 vision.
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Old December 17, 2016, 01:17 PM   #16
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I stuck it out with iron sights for about 4 years and switched to an inexpensive Bushnell red dot on my 1958 Hi Standard Supermatic Trophy in 2014. I think it's added an average of 15-20 points (at least) to my 900 score. Most of the advantage, I believe, comes at slow fire where I used to be happy to average 80 and now am disappointed if I don't average at least 86 or 87, and have been as high as 97 in a round.
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