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Old January 11, 2017, 03:45 PM   #1
4EVERM-14
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Entry Fees

Should club officials demand that non members be charged an additional fee to shoot in events that are sanctioned by National Governing bodies? NRA, USPSA,SASS, etc.
The leaders of one of the clubs to which I belong is attempting to control the fees that match directors charge. They are within their rights to require a financial return to the club. Some places require a percentage of the gross collected or a flat payment that goes to the host club. Guest fees would be appropriate if the match was club level or just for members. However, I don't believe non members of the host club should pay extra when they attend open events where their scores are reported, classifications are determined and National records are at stake. What's your opinion?
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Old January 11, 2017, 03:57 PM   #2
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I agree,,,

It's driven by greed, not necessity.

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Old January 11, 2017, 03:58 PM   #3
Jim Watson
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I know one place that charges nonmembers extra for club level matches but they did not while holding sanctioned events.

There is another range that charges more for walkons than preregistered shooters.
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Old January 11, 2017, 04:38 PM   #4
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IF the match is open to anyone, then the costs should be the same for everyone.
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Old January 11, 2017, 05:25 PM   #5
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Match fees can be justified in many ways.
Extra charges for non members of the host club to compensate for club expenses.
Extra charges per shooter for the sanctioning body in order to hold official matches.
Set percentage of total match fees to the host club.
As long as everything is clearly stated, the host club should have the right to decide.
If it proves unpopular, the club officers will soon find out with diminished attendance.
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Old January 11, 2017, 05:33 PM   #6
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The club where I go to has a limited membership that they call Practical Shooter membership that allows registration to USPSA, IDPA and Action Steel events held at the club. This is not required for Sanctioned events. Cost of this limited membership is around 40% of regular membership dues.


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Old January 12, 2017, 11:55 AM   #7
RickB
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Where are match fees going, if not to the host range?
That is, if the fee is $20 for members, doesn't that go to the range, and why would they want to potentially scare away revenues from non-members by charging them a higher fee?
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Old January 12, 2017, 01:45 PM   #8
T. O'Heir
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"...It's driven by greed..." Far more likely to be driven by liability insurance fees. Mind you, most club insurance covers 'guests' for injury, but not likely if said guest opts for a suit.
Events that are sanctioned by National Governing bodies are probably covered by that National Governing body's insurance. If a club decides to charge more for non-club members they'd very likely lose any further sanctioning by any National Governing body. Likely with a loss of any kind of affiliation too. And then it'd get political.
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Old January 12, 2017, 03:20 PM   #9
4EVERM-14
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Quote:
RickB Where are match fees going, if not to the host range?
There are target costs, % to the sanctioning body, prizes and something for the host club. All of this is included in the entry which every shooter accepts as the price of doing business.
My objection is that every shooter pays that entry.
In many cases there are more 'nons' then club people entering. To set them as second class citizens is a slight which could lead to lower participation.
As has been previously posted. It's all just GREED!
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Old January 13, 2017, 03:31 AM   #10
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Our club has a slightly higher fee for non members. If you're only going to shoot a couple matches a year, cheaper to not join. If you're going to be at most of the matches, join the club and it's cheaper. Why should shooters who pay for the membership end up paying more total per match, match fee plus membership fee?
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Old January 13, 2017, 07:36 AM   #11
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Isn't that membership fee there to allow them access to the club throughout the year for practice, etc?
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Old January 13, 2017, 07:55 AM   #12
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Our club require a $2 added fee for matches compared to club members. If they join their first match is free and then they save the $2 each match. The club membership would be cheaper than the added fees.
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Old January 13, 2017, 09:37 AM   #13
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Some ranges offer discounted fees for people that are members of clubs. The clubs get members discounts in return for the fees they collect.

Not unlike any business that offers something additional for people who are more frequent customers or otherwise help them out.

Frequent flyer miles, case discounts at gas stations, reduced fees for paying in advance, becoming a "member" of some grocery store to get discounts etc. nothing new.

They are awful people if they charge extra for non members. The nicest folks offer discounts for people who are members.
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Old January 13, 2017, 10:26 AM   #14
iraiam
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A match that draws people from all over the place would almost certainly have a large contingent of non range members. In such a case, this policy would smack of a pure attempt to line pockets.

If the object is to cover the costs to host the match, then why the member/non-member entry fee difference? I find it difficult to imagine that it costs the range more for a non-member to shoot the match they agreed to host.
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Old January 13, 2017, 02:31 PM   #15
Don P
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At our local matches non-members pay and extra $5. All the sanctioned matches that I have shot, match fees are the same for everyone. I have worked matches that the match fee is comped because of working the match. I would be really pissed to find I paid more to shoot a sanctioned match that a member of the range taking into account that I had to travel and possible lodging. I would raise so much hell and discontent I would probably get DQ'ed or get my match fee back
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Old January 13, 2017, 04:55 PM   #16
aarondhgraham
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All I know is,,,

It would be different if it were just a club-level match,,,
A club I know of charges non-members a few extra dollars in the entry fee.

I find this reasonable

But if I traveled to go to and paid an entry fee to compete in a sanctioned match,,,
Only to find out the club has attached an extra fee for non-members,,,
I would be very irate and probably complain to the match officials.

This can be "justified" in many ways,,,
But in reality it's just another way to grab some money.

It's like when sales tax revenue goes down for some reason,,,
And cities increase fines for civil violations like not mowing your lawn.

They "justify" the hike saying it costs money to enforce the laws,,,
But in reality the justification statement is just lip-service.

They just want some of your money,,,
And have the means to take it.

It's exactly like that guy in Michigan,,,
Who recently got a $120.00 dollar ticket for warming up his car.

They "justified" the law by saying it prevents car theft,,,
But in reality they just needed money.

This is exactly the same thing,,,
Decide to do something then figure out a "justification" at a later time.

Aarond

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Old January 29, 2017, 12:21 PM   #17
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The local club here charges $5 per shooter whether it is a national event or a club event. All shooters, whether members or not pay that fee.
It helps to off-set the cost setup and tear down and range maintenance. The club doesn't make a lot but it does make the events pay for themselves.
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Old January 30, 2017, 09:37 PM   #18
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At my local club IDPA matches are $20, members save $5, working SOs save $10.

Rifle league matches are $15 or free if you are a member.

There are cost involved in running these matches of course, targets are probably a buck peice, add to that slats to hang targets, the cost of recording equipment (timers, ipads etc), simple range maintenance like keeping berms in shape etc. Stuff cost money.

As a member Ive already paid a chunk for the privilege, it's guaranteed money for the club. Is my member ship plus my match dews dead equal to what it cost for me to shot? Nope, But I want my club to have $$ in the coffers. Should this be a means for a club to gouge non members? Absolutely not, none the less they need to make a little money to keep the gears turning.
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Old February 9, 2017, 12:34 PM   #19
tedbeau
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My club does charge more for monthly matches for non members. We have a few shooters that shoot almost every week and pay the extra $5. I could never understand the logic of paying $5 X 45 or 50 weeks verses paying the 80 dollar membership. We did just have one of these guys pay his membership last night, so this year he will save himself $200.
On sanctioned matches we do not charge extra for non-members. I agree, if you expect people to travel and get a hotel room to shoot your match it doesn't make sense to charge them extra.
One thing we do for our sanctioned matches is we give a $25 discount if you register early. This has several advantages. One if the weather is iffy, people that have already paid their fee will still show up to shoot. Two it makes ordering trophies, meals and shirts easier if there are less last minute additions. Three it doesn't mean the bookkeeper/Score keepers end up staying up till midnight the night before the match entering all the last minute registrations.
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Old February 9, 2017, 01:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
One thing we do for our sanctioned matches is we give a $25 discount if you register early.
That's quite a discount. What do the costs normally run?

With sporting clays, there are three main companies that offer on-line preregistration: Winscore, ScoringPro and Iclays. There are options to collect deposits or full payment, or none at all and collect the money at the club. Is there a similar program for these matches? As you mentioned, just getting a handle on how many to expect for lunch is a big savings for the host club. At multi-day events, golf carts are rented. Since most clubs do not have enough normally, the preregistration also lets the club get an idea how many extra carts to rent. (Those run the shooter ~$75/day, club about $60).
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Old February 10, 2017, 10:48 AM   #21
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It depends if you want to attract new shooters or not.

I realize clubs have expenses but they need shooters also.

The club I shoot pistol matches charges a flat $5 for everyone, (some events you can shoot a second gun for an extra $3). Their goal is to get more people involved and its working. Yet they get enough funds for target maintenance and other expenses, because of the number of shooters.

My local club tried charging $10 for each gun (RF and CF) for our bowling pin matches. I talked them into allowing one to shoot both guns for $10 instead of charging an additional fee for two guns. We get more shooters, and end up making more money.

In trying to get more involved in Rifle Shooting I don't charge anything for the CMP Clinics and Matches. I eat the CMP fees to conduct the matches. My goal is more shooters, not making money.

Our club isn't loosing money.

Same with training. I do most of the firearm training (CCW and SD classes) and I refuse to charge anything.

I want shooters, our club is suppose to be non-profit.

I hate to see shooting sports become a Rich Man's Sport. Nor should self defense be a rich man's game.

The less money we charge the more people getting involved, the more people getting involved in shooting, the more support we get for supporting gun rights.
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Old February 10, 2017, 03:39 PM   #22
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I would much rather see the club get a bigger cut than the governing body, but I am kind of biased from doing some racing: In the triathlon world, a race can't be considered a Tri unless it is sanctioned by USAT. This means that in addition to the typically steep entry fees, you have to either be a member of USAT or pay for a one time race fee, equivalent to the yearly cost of a membership. This means that an organization that merely sends out a handful of certifying officials is getting about $35 from all of the (typically 1600+) competitors.

Then again if I was that opposed to it I would stop racing instead of just grumbling about it every time I register.
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Old February 10, 2017, 04:06 PM   #23
tedbeau
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As far as the $25 discount goes,

The discount is for the Great Lakes regional (IDPA). The full registration is $125, but almost all our shooters register before the early entry deadline so we get very few shooters paying the extra $25. I think last year was the most late entries we have had in a few years and it was something like 8 to 12 shooters out of a field of 225.
The cost is about normal for a tier two or tier three match and the fee also includes ten stages plus Chrono, lunch the day of the match and a really nice tee shirt for every shooter. Since it's a regional we draw from about four or five states, Canada and we will be having a few shooters from Italy again this year. I think that's really cool. The Italian's are friends of our past match director so they visit each other every couple of years.
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Old February 13, 2017, 10:23 PM   #24
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Additional fees for non-members is quite common at membership only ranges. At the matches I've shot it is typically $5. I've never seen them applied to major matches, only club level matches.

For club level matches the USPSA activity fee is $3 per competitor per division if there is a classifier in the match, and $1.50 for no classifier. The fee goes up for higher level matches.
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Old February 26, 2017, 12:52 PM   #25
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For $1.50 or $5 I wouldn't say anything.

I was fired up to attend a 3-gun match at a "local" (only 30 miles away) club, which was advertising it would be allowing non-members to shoot. Then I got down to the fine print and found they wanted a $50 entry fee for their own members, plus another $150 from non-members.

Uh, no. If you don't want non-members to attend, why advertise?
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