The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Gear and Accessories

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 15, 2018, 02:53 PM   #1
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,668
cleaning rod ?

What is the best material for a rifle cleaning rod graphite, brass, steel or aluminum ? I would need a 36" rod for 22 cal and up
Is there any preference between Dewey, Tipton or boretech ?
rebs is online now  
Old September 15, 2018, 03:23 PM   #2
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,076
You are not going to get an all in one rod. 17 and 22 caliber are separate. For my 22 I got a 22 caliber as the rim fires are somewhat delicate in that rim area. I use a 17 caliber jag.

Rods make not a lot of difference though people will rant endlessly about them. Myths abound. Like Aluminum hold grit and will wear out a barrel. right.

So, run a cleaning cloth down the rod, clean anything off and then do it with your hand. Anything bad will be felt.

What does work nicely is a rod with the roller bearing handle. Not a have to, but I like them. I have two, one with the nylon brush on it and the other with the jag. That way I don't have to switch. back and forth. Time saving is worth it.

Mine are coasted metal, same as aluminum, keep them clean and no issues. Probably no issues if not clean but I do.

Fiberglass is fine as well.

I don't even know what the name on mine is. They were the best priced with what I wanted.

Metal rods are fine as well, keep clean.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old September 15, 2018, 03:55 PM   #3
BlackDuck
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2018
Posts: 9
Being new to the forum I am going to say that respectfully disagree with RC20. When you have a match grade barrel the right cleaning rod lets you feel differences in the barrel cleanliness.

I have owned many different rods, but Bore Tech Proof-Positives give the best feel of anything I have used. I do not buy them for the indicator resistant material, I buy them for the Bore Tech bearing system and the handle (different handle than their standard rods).

Material wise, you want something that is not going to scratch off if you catch the end of the bore guide. Dewey for example, will scratch off. You also want to be aware of what the rod is if you are using indicator solutions, or if you ever use something that is ammonia based.

Size wise, rods that are close to the bore diameter are going to flex less. For example, do not use a 22 rod in a 30 cal as it will flex and run the rifling if are using tight patches or brushes.

The other thing to think about is the need for adapters. 12-28 and 8-32 are the most common. Smaller (17-22 caliber) will have 5-40 threads.
BlackDuck is offline  
Old September 17, 2018, 09:48 AM   #4
donkee
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2004
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 449
I prefer brass cleaning rods. Other than that as others have said, different diameter rods for different calibers.
donkee is offline  
Old September 17, 2018, 10:18 AM   #5
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,076
BlackDuck: No issues with a disagreement new or not. Its not personal and we all bring different perspectives to the table (new or not, I hate the new thing, you may be new to the forum and have a lifetimes worth of experience)

That said I am not a bench rest shooter (recreational only) and I am not big into all the nuances that bench rest group tend to swear by.

I don't use a bore guide. Mine are Tipton, not sure if carbon or not. I do use just the one size works for all the calibers I shoot (I don't shoot larger than 30 caliber) - I would have to check rod diameter

I know people keep saying you can wear a rifle barrel out with a rod, my opinion having worked with metal for a very very long time is that is nonsensical.

Its hard enough to cut metal with a file or a grinding wheel that is intended to do just that.

I won't claim that you might not affect the minute accuracy a competitive bench rest shooter requires. They also tend to replace barrels quite often.

If I knew any who shot Savages I would be in line to take their bad ones!

I do use the Bore tech eliminator and have not had it affect what brass there is on the jab and rod end.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old September 17, 2018, 11:23 AM   #6
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,208
I don't buy into the rod's wear out barrels either. Aluminum is much softer than steel, so is those plastic covered rods. My though is the barrel will wear out the rod years before the rod will damage the barrel in any way! My rod for all my rifles is plastic coated, no idea what the rod itself is made from! Been using it for many years and haven't bothered one of my barrels! If you worry that the rod might harm your barrel, by all means get one your comfortable with! Doesn't really matter how much or how little you pay for a rod it will last for many years with just a little care, ie don't bend it! I think story's about rods wearing out barrels are started because many shooter's have to much time on their hands to think up thing's like that. They mention it a few time and next thing you know, some company selling gun cleaning rods picks up on it and come's out with the you bet your life best cleaning rod ever and of course that calls for a much higher price. The idea of a cleaning rod is the push a patch or brush through the bore to clean it, nothing else!
Don Fischer is online now  
Old September 17, 2018, 11:40 AM   #7
Ben Dover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2013
Location: High up in the Rocky Moun
Posts: 417
Bench rest and serious bullseye target shooters seem to prefer steel, or coated steel, single piece rods. They always use rod guides.

Just my taste, but I would never allow an aluminum rod anywhere near one of my guns.,
__________________
The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower
Ben Dover is offline  
Old September 17, 2018, 11:50 AM   #8
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,430
I like the Bore Tech rods personally.
Dufus is offline  
Old September 17, 2018, 12:48 PM   #9
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,121
Hot lead, gilding metal, burning powder and rust are what harm barrels. Getting in the habit of pushing the cleaning rod one way so that whatever you have removed isn't pushed back down into the barrel or action is a good practice. Also when I clean firearms I prefer to use chemistry, a good soak, 30 minutes or or more-except on nickeled firearms-does more to removes debris, powder residue, etc. better than scrubbing.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old September 17, 2018, 01:24 PM   #10
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,261
"...much softer than steel..." Steel cleaning rods are softer than barrel steel too.
The brand doesn't matter. The ease of finding jags that fit does. Some of 'em are proprietary. And like RC20 says, you won't find one rod for all calibres. Especially a .17.
Partial to pull throughs myself. Brass female end for the assorted jags with a brass weight on the other. Use a rod for hand guns only.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old September 18, 2018, 02:15 PM   #11
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,195
I use steel one-piece rods when cleaning at home.
In the field, bore snakes or coated steel segmented rods.

I avoid brass, and aluminum is just flat-out banned. When aluminum rods are given to me, or come in a lot of items from an auction, they go straight into the recycling bin.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 18, 2018, 03:07 PM   #12
AzShooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2006
Location: Surprise, Az.
Posts: 501
No matte what rod you use, use a bore guide or you are just looking for trouble. You can scratch the bore. If you clean from the muzzle and don't use a bore guide you will scratch the crown and you will end up having to have it re-cut.

I've been shooting various competitions for over 40 year. Just my opinion but don't discount it.
AzShooter is offline  
Old September 18, 2018, 03:10 PM   #13
Rifletom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 647
Ok, I have to know: what is the issue with aluminum rods? I really don't know. Thanks.
Rifletom is offline  
Old September 19, 2018, 10:13 AM   #14
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,195
Aluminum oxide is extremely abrasive.
Aluminum is soft, and easily gets foreign substances embedded in it.

Either factor is bad.
Both factors, together, make aluminum even less ideal - especially if you don't use a bore guide.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 19, 2018, 01:47 PM   #15
rwilson452
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,605
For my Varmint rifles I use Dewey.
__________________
USNRET '61-'81
rwilson452 is offline  
Old September 19, 2018, 03:19 PM   #16
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,076
Aluminm: I grind things with aluminum wheels amounts other types, it aint easy even with the wheel spinning 3600 rpm.

I think its another GUL (Gun Urban Legend). The biggest issue might be grit embedding in the rod, easy enough to run your hand down it, if your hand does not feel it you barrel will not notice it. Personally I just don't like the feel of them but I do have several for my pistols.

Quote:
No matte what rod you use, use a bore guide or you are just looking for trouble. You can scratch the bore. If you clean from the muzzle and don't use a bore guide you will scratch the crown and you will end up having to have it re-cut.

I've been shooting various competitions for over 40 year. Just my opinion but don't discount it.
I don't discount it but I also fail to see the mechanism that causes damage.

The hot gas will eat out the throat in under 1000 rounds on some rifles, many 1500 to 2500. 308 and 06 tend up more in the 5000 round range though likely longer if not bench rest shooting (not that the bench rest shooters shoot them anymore)

I have see the pictures and report of where they shot a gun and established accuracy, then whacked the muzzle about a bit and tested.

They cut it back and increased the damage each time.

I think it was the third or fourth round before they saw any fall off in accuracy.

So, while I am open to discussion, I am also skeptical that anything less than bench rest accuracy is affected by that (let alone scratching.

Having looked at some 25 or 30 rifles not with a bore scope, what you see with a button rifled barrel is an atrocity . Even when lapped they are not great.

Sadly, there is no one who has ever had the resources that could test all that scientifically and come up with concrete results.

As human beings we like our rituals. No issue if it helps but skeptical on the fact part.

I read an article by a guy who interview 15 bench rest buys (top ones). Very few of them used even the same practice let alone the same practice up and down the range of it all from cleaning to reloading.

One guy would swear it was the end of the world if you did not do X, the other guy didn't even do X or swore it was Y that was the end all and be all.

Throw the Virgin in the Volcano, it settles down, ahha, it was the Virgin, last month we threw in a non virgin and it just kept rocking and rolling.

note to self: If you live in a culture that does that, loose the virginity thing at the first opportunity. You may go through quite a few virgins before you realize you are on the wrong track.

The one area I have some belief in is the 22 lands more easily damaged, simply because they are different and not as robust as center fire rifles.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old September 19, 2018, 07:02 PM   #17
BlackDuck
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2018
Posts: 9
Spring steel is what I believe most find to be the quickest to, well, spring back, when they start to flex. Aluminum tends to hold the curve a bit.

I too agree that cleaning the barrel is not in itself going to wear it out. The rod takes much more of a beating, say by hitting the rifling or entrance to the bore guide. I will also say I have seen some very nasty throats and muzzles from people not using bore guides. Looking at them with a bore camera makes me thing this is where some of that caution stuff comes from. People will bang the snot out of them with the center of the brush post, and even by using too thin of a rod so the jag or brush has all kinds of meat hanging past the rod to catch on stuff. The other thing is old tech. Ammonia anyone? Some of the chemicals on the shelves today won't take the dried spinach off a plate much less crusty carbon, where the old stuff would take the spinach by burning a hole in the plate.

Pretty sure white flame, dragging copper and lead at 2-4x's the speed of sound, etc. is a bit more harsh than a patch and some solvent.
__________________
I am human therefore I own a bullet puller.
BlackDuck is offline  
Old September 20, 2018, 07:09 PM   #18
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,076
I have to strongly disagree with you as will Unclenick on the new chemical

While not all may do what is advertised, Carbon Killer 2000 (just what it says) and Bore Tech eliminator which is oriented to copper but has a good carbon cleaner aspect do indeed work and work far better than the old stuff.

I've cleaned some really bad barrels up to new condition confirmed with a boroscope not looking down the boar which is misleading.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old September 23, 2018, 09:23 AM   #19
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 2,774
The Dewey coated one piece rods have served me well .zero problems.
cw308 is offline  
Old September 23, 2018, 02:38 PM   #20
gw44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 207
I have 3 Dewey rods to cover all my calibers, is the Dewey rod the best cleaning rod I think so !!!
gw44 is offline  
Old September 23, 2018, 02:48 PM   #21
Ruga Booga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2017
Location: SE Kansas
Posts: 100
Dewey
Ruga Booga is offline  
Old September 23, 2018, 08:19 PM   #22
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,668
Thank you for all your help, looks like a Dewey for me.
I have been using the Otis cable pull threw also and it does a nice job. But I want a good rod also.
rebs is online now  
Old September 23, 2018, 11:05 PM   #23
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,195
I've been messing with an Otis pull-through cable for about a year, on and off. While it has its limitations, I do find it useful. The ability to pack an entire cleaning kit up into a little pouch smaller than folded ear muffs just makes it even better.

There's no replacement for a good cleaning rod.
But I am definitely coming to appreciate the Otis cable for certain situations.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 24, 2018, 11:50 AM   #24
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 2,774
I have a CZ 452 Varmint in 22lr the bore is smaller then 22 I had to go with a 20 caliber Dewey rod , the CZ is he most accurate 22 I ever owned , maybe it's the tight bore. I like the Parker Hale jag , they don't make them smaller then 22 Cal. Dewey one piece coated rods are the only rods I'll use.
cw308 is offline  
Old September 24, 2018, 01:52 PM   #25
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,121
Would wrapping a cleaning in rod in say, Duct Tape help ?
SIGSHR is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11821 seconds with 10 queries