what was the final word on the para hawg 1911 in 9mm?

scottycoyote · June 6, 2018, 04:09 PM

ran across one recently im interested in (ive been wanting a 1911 9mm for sometimes concealed carry). Doing some research it looks like there were some issues when these pistols came out with the extractor, etc........just wondering if these issues ever got sorted out with fixes down the road? I can get this pistol a little cheaper than an emp or colt defender (the 2 guns ive been trying to decide between) but if its not reliable I dont want it for carry of course. Any input appreciated

**Aguila Blanca** · June 6, 2018, 05:13 PM

What was the Hawg? I remember the name, but I don't associate it with a size.

I have an early Para-Ordnance Slim Hawg in .45 ACP. I think the possible extractor issue you may be thinking of has to do with what Para called the Power Extractor, which was their attempt at using sort of an "internal external extractor." It was their own design, but it worked a bit like the aftermarket Aftec extractor. The extractor was a two-piece, hinged contraption with a tiny coil spring at the hinge joint.

After Ted Szabos died, Para turned to EGW (Evolution Gun Works) in Pennsylvania. EGW produces a heavy duty version of a standard 1911 extractor (one piece) that's sized to fit the oversize bore that the Power Extractor used. As an alternate, multiple sources sell a sleeve insert that modifies the Power Extractor (or "PXT") slide for use with a standard 1911 extractor.

Ahh ... Google Fu tells me the Hawg 9 is the 9mm version of the P10.45/Warthog. I haven't tried the Hawg 9 but I do own the aforementioned Slimhawg (which is the single stack version), and I have owned an early P10.45. Both good pistols. My Slim Hawg is in my carry rotation. When I'm not carrying it, it's in my bedstand.

I haven't experienced any issues with the Power Extractor in my Slim Hawg, but I don't have a high round count through it. It's a 3-inch pistol. It's for carry, not playing at the range. I don't think Remington has service replacements for the original Power Extractor. Para had switched over to the EGW extractor before the company was bought by Remington.

Mosin44az · June 6, 2018, 10:20 PM

Since you asked for “any input “ here goes:

You say it’s just “a little cheaper” than a Defender or Emp? The Defender has a great rep and Springfield has a great reputation for service. Why choose an orphan from a defunct company with an iffy reputation over one of those two? Even if the Para is 600 cheaper your money is wasted if the gun isn’t reliable.

Both the Defender and Emp are thinner as well.

**Aguila Blanca** · June 7, 2018, 10:14 AM

I don't think Para-Ordnance's reputation is any more "iffy" than Colt's. Yes, Colt has a much longer history, but when discussing post-WW2 commercial pistols there are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with Colt and who continue even today to bash them on the Internet. Both Colt and Para-Ordnance had runs of a few bad years (Colt more than once, Para basically only once), but both mostly made good, solid, affordable pistols.

Over the years I have owned probably about a dozen Para 1911s. The only one that gave me any headaches was one I bought used, and that had been "tuned up" by the previous owner. Once I un-tuned it and put it back to factory configuration, it ran like a raped ape. I still have that one. (Not the Slim Hawg.)

jreXD9 · June 7, 2018, 01:14 PM

I know you're talking about a 9mm, but I had the Warthog in .45 and it just wouldn't run right. Beautiful little .45, though. I didn't have the patience to get it running, so I got rid of it and went to a S'field XD45 subcompact back then. Every S'field I've had has run like a top!

Lohman446 · June 7, 2018, 02:05 PM

My limited experience with Para... and it is VERY limited.

During the "bad years", and I am told they were limited, the problems were BAD. I recall wanting to buy a Para in this time. I had grown up reading about these great 1911ish guns in the gun rags of my teenage years and finally had the money to buy one. In my mind, and at the time, this was a TON of money for a gun and I expected something ultra high end out of them which likely colored my expectations.

So I'm at the counter and "I want a Para" To his credit the man on the other side of the counter did not try to talk me out of it.

The first one I picked up would not cycle the slide fully back. The second one would not go into battery when slide forward and the third just had general fit and finish issues.

I am told that this was a relatively short time and Para corrected itself but by then I had moved on.

My point: I would not be drastically scared of a used Para today. There were a lot more good ones made then bad and the bad ones, in my very limited experience, were so bad you should catch it.

**Aguila Blanca** · June 7, 2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I still have that one. (Not the Slim Hawg.)

I should clarify that statement. I did not mean that I don't still have the Slim Hawg. I do have the Slim Hawg and, as I had commented, it's either in my bed stand or on my belt. What I meant was that I also still have the Para that was a problem child when first bought. I do not blame Para-Ordnance for the problems. Bubba had been busy. Once that was diagnosed and factory parts were installed to replace the "upgraded" replacement parts, it has been boringly reliable. It's one of two pistols that I used to shoot in competition (the other is also a Para), and it's the one I will probably use if I try competing again this year.

rodfac · June 10, 2018, 02:34 PM

Quote:

The first one I picked up would not cycle the slide fully back. The second one would not go into battery when slide forward and the third just had general fit and finish issues.

Three in a row that didn't measure up? That's about all I'd need to convince me to move on. Rod

June 6, 2018, 04:09 PM	#1
scottycoyote Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2005 Location: southwestern va Posts: 830	what was the final word on the para hawg 1911 in 9mm? ran across one recently im interested in (ive been wanting a 1911 9mm for sometimes concealed carry). Doing some research it looks like there were some issues when these pistols came out with the extractor, etc........just wondering if these issues ever got sorted out with fixes down the road? I can get this pistol a little cheaper than an emp or colt defender (the 2 guns ive been trying to decide between) but if its not reliable I dont want it for carry of course. Any input appreciated __________________ "i got the most powerful gun in the world........an .88 magnum. It shoots thru schools......"

June 7, 2018, 01:14 PM	#5
jreXD9 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Posts: 404	I know you're talking about a 9mm, but I had the Warthog in .45 and it just wouldn't run right. Beautiful little .45, though. I didn't have the patience to get it running, so I got rid of it and went to a S'field XD45 subcompact back then. Every S'field I've had has run like a top! __________________ Don't go ninjin' nobody don't need ninjin'.

June 6, 2018, 05:13 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	What was the Hawg? I remember the name, but I don't associate it with a size. I have an early Para-Ordnance Slim Hawg in .45 ACP. I think the possible extractor issue you may be thinking of has to do with what Para called the Power Extractor, which was their attempt at using sort of an "internal external extractor." It was their own design, but it worked a bit like the aftermarket Aftec extractor. The extractor was a two-piece, hinged contraption with a tiny coil spring at the hinge joint. After Ted Szabos died, Para turned to EGW (Evolution Gun Works) in Pennsylvania. EGW produces a heavy duty version of a standard 1911 extractor (one piece) that's sized to fit the oversize bore that the Power Extractor used. As an alternate, multiple sources sell a sleeve insert that modifies the Power Extractor (or "PXT") slide for use with a standard 1911 extractor. Ahh ... Google Fu tells me the Hawg 9 is the 9mm version of the P10.45/Warthog. I haven't tried the Hawg 9 but I do own the aforementioned Slimhawg (which is the single stack version), and I have owned an early P10.45. Both good pistols. My Slim Hawg is in my carry rotation. When I'm not carrying it, it's in my bedstand. I haven't experienced any issues with the Power Extractor in my Slim Hawg, but I don't have a high round count through it. It's a 3-inch pistol. It's for carry, not playing at the range. I don't think Remington has service replacements for the original Power Extractor. Para had switched over to the EGW extractor before the company was bought by Remington.

June 6, 2018, 10:20 PM	#3
Mosin44az Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Posts: 2,585	Since you asked for “any input “ here goes: You say it’s just “a little cheaper” than a Defender or Emp? The Defender has a great rep and Springfield has a great reputation for service. Why choose an orphan from a defunct company with an iffy reputation over one of those two? Even if the Para is 600 cheaper your money is wasted if the gun isn’t reliable. Both the Defender and Emp are thinner as well.

June 7, 2018, 10:14 AM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	I don't think Para-Ordnance's reputation is any more "iffy" than Colt's. Yes, Colt has a much longer history, but when discussing post-WW2 commercial pistols there are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with Colt and who continue even today to bash them on the Internet. Both Colt and Para-Ordnance had runs of a few bad years (Colt more than once, Para basically only once), but both mostly made good, solid, affordable pistols. Over the years I have owned probably about a dozen Para 1911s. The only one that gave me any headaches was one I bought used, and that had been "tuned up" by the previous owner. Once I un-tuned it and put it back to factory configuration, it ran like a raped ape. I still have that one. (Not the Slim Hawg.)

June 7, 2018, 02:05 PM	#6
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	My limited experience with Para... and it is VERY limited. During the "bad years", and I am told they were limited, the problems were BAD. I recall wanting to buy a Para in this time. I had grown up reading about these great 1911ish guns in the gun rags of my teenage years and finally had the money to buy one. In my mind, and at the time, this was a TON of money for a gun and I expected something ultra high end out of them which likely colored my expectations. So I'm at the counter and "I want a Para" To his credit the man on the other side of the counter did not try to talk me out of it. The first one I picked up would not cycle the slide fully back. The second one would not go into battery when slide forward and the third just had general fit and finish issues. I am told that this was a relatively short time and Para corrected itself but by then I had moved on. My point: I would not be drastically scared of a used Para today. There were a lot more good ones made then bad and the bad ones, in my very limited experience, were so bad you should catch it.