The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 16, 2018, 02:06 PM   #1
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
Another local shooting

This incident happened last night and is just 20 minutes from my home and just 10 minutes from my daughters home. These events are becoming more frequent in our area as just this past summer my daughter had an attempted invasion at her home but the 2 dogs drove him off. He too was later apprehended. So this is the 4th of 5th home invasion with injuries in the past couple years. It's long past time to get the daughter a gun.

Because of these events I have rearmed myself after many years of being unarmed and I have also taught the wife how to shoot. Not ready to carry but I will defend my home and family.

This also brings me to another point which I will post in another thread so I hope you will look for it and reply but I am in need of a quick access pistol safe to safely store a loaded pistol. I have on clue what to look for and the reviews are confusing at best.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ounty-shooting
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 02:08 PM   #2
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,432
Are there kids at home? If not, keep it handy on your nightstand at night, and on your person around the house during the day.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 02:09 PM   #3
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,432
Quote:
Authorities believe the shooting was drug related.
What else is new?
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 02:29 PM   #4
MisterCrabby
Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2018
Posts: 90
Another local shooting

If you don’t carry you may not have time to get to it if your home perimeter is breached...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MisterCrabby is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 02:36 PM   #5
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
Yes there are small grandchildren and we never know when they will show up. Second I don't want to walk around the house with a pistol strapped on but I do want to be able to get it quickly if need be.

That area has had 5 major drug busts in the past 4 years. Not including a meth lab.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 02:39 PM   #6
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
Here is how I feel. If I get to the point that I need to walk my house armed during the day then it is time to sell and move! So no I do not want to carry in my own home.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 03:51 PM   #7
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,706
One or two home invasions per year, or one or two drugs busts per year are very low if you think about it. I live in a small county ~30k population, and there's one or two home invasions / drug busts weekly. I'd say you're lucky. Don't blame you for arming yourself though, I sure am.
Mike38 is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 04:18 PM   #8
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: Weekend cowboy
Posts: 542
Quote:
Here is how I feel. If I get to the point that I need to walk my house armed during the day then it is time to sell and move! So no I do not want to carry in my own home.
Depends on if you live in an urban apartment or a fairly large, multistory property in a very suburban or rural setting.

Apartments, especially budget ones, are easy to manage. Layout is practically right there in front of you. Large rural properties, not so much. Imagine living in an Edwardian house. You go downstairs into the basement to check the steam furnace...You are easily now isolated from the rest of the house. You hear a suspicious noise coming from an upstairs landing, and realize that your Sig P226 is in the master bedroom. Only problem is whatever is making the noise is between you and the bedroom, somewhere in one of the halls or stairs.

A lot of popular Web-based horror fiction and creepypastas often feature realistic depictions of what home invasions look like. They are quite...silent and unnoticeable in multistory houses until they are heard creeping up stairs or running into something. By that time, perp or perps are deep inside the property and room clearing might be necessary. I had to read "A Clockwork Orange" in high school AP English class. HATED it. Because when the "droogies" burst into F. Alexander's house, I kept hoping he would ventilate each and one of them. But the book got me into studying the tactical procedures behind home defense and the proper weapons, calibers, ballistics etc... Often here and on other gun boards when the issue is discussed I often use the "old surprise visit" from that book to illustrate how fast, violent and silent a home break in can be.

I live in an apartment so I normally don't go around the rooms with a holstered handgun. But the pistol is always within reach near my desk when I am writing or on the computer. Rifle is in the bedroom closet. Neighborhood is pretty decent. No violent activity aside from drunken fights and undocumented day laborers urinating and defecating everywhere. I am not too concerned about actual psychos or escaped convicts/hardened killers roaming around. Too urban a place for urban legends to actually happen.

But I have went with friends out to the countryside and spent nights in rented villas, usually for birthday parties and such. Large properties with lots of rooms and lots of hallways. Always carried my hunting revolver loaded with flat points and hollow points. Never worn it on a holster inside the properties, especially with numerous other guests and parties going on, but always had it in a haversack that I carried around with me, even to the bathroom where it would be sitting on the floor near the sink garbage pail while I am taking a shower. No one is going to question a crumpled old looking army green canvas haversack being toted around. Just think it was toiletries or changes of clothing. But if something bad happens I can access my firearm readily. Guess I read too much creepypastas but still like to be prepared. Better safe than sorry!
Rachen is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 04:37 PM   #9
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
The Village of Paddock Lake has a population of 3000 and is mostly rural though it is just 25 minutes away from the interstate between Chicago and Milwaukee. Not so long ago the home invasion rate was zero. It just didn't happen.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 05:23 PM   #10
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
Eh, it less of a pain to carry a pistol in my own home than to carry one in public and if I need it at home the stakes are a lot higher. Not to mention that carry at home is the best solution - the pistol is under your constant supervision and simultaneously safe from misuse (except by you).

If you decide to go with a handgun/safe solution, the Hornady RapidSafe is a good product. Like all of those products, it won’t defeat a determined attack but it will serve most need well.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 06:32 PM   #11
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: Weekend cowboy
Posts: 542
Quote:
Eh, it less of a pain to carry a pistol in my own home than to carry one in public and if I need it at home the stakes are a lot higher. Not to mention that carry at home is the best solution - the pistol is under your constant supervision and simultaneously safe from misuse (except by you).
In some circumstances, it is quite advantageous and appropriate to carry while in the home, like if you are home alone or with children in a multistory house in a crime-prone area. Back in the days before cell phones became a commonplace item, it has been documented that in many domestic violence cases involving a jealous partner breaking in and seriously injuring or killing the victim, the victim had not been able to call the authorities because the landline phone was in another part of the house or in a different room than the one they were caught in when they were taken by surprise. Also, how many people have slipped and fallen and injured themselves, or suffered heart attacks and were not able to reach a phone because it was in another room?

When an emergency happens, even "just out of arm's length" may be too far away. Just like that old saying "When seconds count the police are just minutes away".

Then, there are also those who claim that it is too paranoid to be considering carrying a pistol 24/7 around your home. Lets do a compromise for all parties: Being safe and protecting yourself/loved ones from attack is something that is not just addressed by guns and weapons: It is a multistep procedure involving being observant of your surroundings/paying attention to detail/making your house attractive to it's occupants and unattractive to criminals. One of these things you can do to address the abovementioned is investing fully in passive defensive measures for your house such as solid, reliable locks and chains, motion sensing alarms, video surveillance, window bars, strengthening other possible entrances to the property (ie. basement doors, side doors, kitchen screen doors). With that done, also pay attention to your surroundings and avoid being careless. Think that you might have forgotten to lock the kitchen door after your son brought in his bike? Go check it out and make sure it is locked. It only takes a minute or two. Something just feels a little off? It might be. Go make sure all the locks and deadbolts are secured. Have curtains over those large bay windows at night when the room lights are on. You are not able to see outside into the dark but someone standing outside, out of view, can see everything that is going on inside the room. These are only a fraction of things that you can do to fortify your property from potential criminals. The gun is the second line of defense that you fall back on if the first line is breached.
Rachen is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 07:45 PM   #12
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
Now I'm glad I live where I do and not where you all are.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 08:15 PM   #13
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
I was severely assaulted. Was not armed (though it may not have helped) but I discovered that it is impossible to call 911 when your phone is soaked in your own blood. The touchscreen doesn’t work and it was pre “Hey Siri” days. I managed to draw attention to my plight by yelling at the agressor as loud as I could and someone in a nearby apartment complex heard me. Luckily some officers happened to be a short distance away.
rickyrick is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 10:47 PM   #14
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,715
Quote:
Here is how I feel. If I get to the point that I need to walk my house armed during the day then it is time to sell and move! So no I do not want to carry in my own home.
Quote:
The Village of Paddock Lake has a population of 3000 and is mostly rural though it is just 25 minutes away from the interstate between Chicago and Milwaukee. Not so long ago the home invasion rate was zero. It just didn't happen.
We all enjoy our own levels of complacency. This is why we keep seeing/hearing over and over again about how "I can't believe it happened here." It can happen anywhere. Somebody will always be the first.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 10:54 PM   #15
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,930
If the home invaders are any good at what they do, you won't have time to go unlock a safe to get a gun.

You may be able to come up with some way to fool them into letting you get it after they've taken over--I've seen that kind of thing reported in a few home invasions. Or you may not.
Quote:
Now I'm glad I live where I do and not where you all are.
I live in a quiet suburban neighborhood. As far as I know there's never been a home invasion in this area. I carry because it is, by far, the easiest way to have a gun readily accessible, not because I think it's likely I'll need it or because I feel unsafe without it.
Quote:
Eh, it less of a pain to carry a pistol in my own home than to carry one in public and if I need it at home the stakes are a lot higher. Not to mention that carry at home is the best solution - the pistol is under your constant supervision and simultaneously safe from misuse (except by you).
Yup.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old November 16, 2018, 11:40 PM   #16
Colorado Redneck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2008
Location: Northeast Colorado
Posts: 1,993
Drug activity

A few years ago there was a home invasion near here. The person that was home was stabbed and seriously injured.
Quote:
One of four people who seriously injured a school teacher in a Golden home invasion, after they’d entered the wrong home, was sentenced to 42 years.
Its easy to be complacent, especially if the crime rate in your neighborhood is low.
Colorado Redneck is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 08:31 AM   #17
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
Yes there are small grandchildren and we never know when they will show up. Second I don't want to walk around the house with a pistol strapped on but I do want to be able to get it quickly if need be.

That area has had 5 major drug busts in the past 4 years. Not including a meth lab.
Carry 'concealed' while at home..no need to have it open carried. Same for daughter..plus nightstand if no kiddies around.
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 12:19 PM   #18
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
Why is this so difficult? I've stated 3 times already I do not and am not going to carry a firearm all day everyday inside my house.. If it is necessary to do this then it's time to find a safer neighborhood. Also do not feel the need to explain the security already in place.

There are young children in and out of the house. This safe is not to keep the guns from being stolen but to keep them out of youngsters little hands but still accessible if needed.
So if the only answer is to carry all day everyday then I will just lock them up when company comes by.

Now someone please explain the difference between keeping one in one of these lock boxes or in a nightstand drawer? A nightstand isn't going to keep it away from little hands.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 12:49 PM   #19
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: Weekend cowboy
Posts: 542
Quote:
Why is this so difficult? I've stated 3 times already I do not and am not going to carry a firearm all day everyday inside my house.. If it is necessary to do this then it's time to find a safer neighborhood. Also do not feel the need to explain the security already in place.
It is cool. Nobody is dictating that you must carry a firearm indoors. It is just that this is a public discussion board, much like a neighborhood sports bar and when questions and issues are posted, people gather around the [digital] bar counter and talk about these issues and try to think up solutions for them. Other members read these threads, and plenty of readers from all over the Internet also read them. The posted collective knowledge serves to educate everybody who partakes in it. Though if the moderators are actually bartenders as well and I can order a few shots of Jim Beam from JohnKsa behind the counter, that would make TFL even better, wouldn't it?

All jokes aside now, we are just brainstorming ideas on how to make your property attractive to those who live inside it, and unattractive to criminals and other individuals with ill intent. We all have our opinions, ideas and knowledge, and we are sharing it for the benefit of everybody.
Rachen is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 01:15 PM   #20
FunGramps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2018
Location: Leftern Washington
Posts: 240
Having a vigilant dog in the house is one of the best security alert systems available.
FunGramps is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 02:55 PM   #21
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
The original intention was to bring and share this news story. To show that shootings don't just happen in larger populated areas and to once again show how this is spreading even into quiet rural areas. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised because of the proximity to the freeway and our location between Chicago and Milwaukee.

Last night the Sherriff had a news conference and gave a report as to how much drugs pass thru the county going back and forth between these two cities. Then to hear this morning there was another shooting last night at a bar.

This area has changed in such that a year ago there was a drug bust in the same area where drugs from pot to heroin were recovered along with thousands of dollars worth of stolen property. Including all manner of firearms, pistols, rifles, shotguns.

The second part of the topic was to decide how to protect the guns I keep loaded out of the hands of the little children that are constantly in and out. I am not in a position that I feel that I need constant coverage but I do want to keep one next to the bed and just left in a drawer isn't going to cut it.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 03:00 PM   #22
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,524
Also forgot to mention that yesterday afternoon there was a new report the expressway in Milwaukee was shut down but they didn't know why yet. It turns out there was a road rage incident and 2 drivers suffered gunshot wounds!

Well, Deer gun season opens today here in Wisconsin.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 03:03 PM   #23
TomNJVA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2014
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 241
You may want to consider keeping the gun loaded and out of reach from small hands by hiding it on a high shelf but available to you, provided that when children come over you would immediately retrieve the gun and lock it up until they leave. Likewise if you leave the house and children may come over in your absence.

I keep a firearm on each level of my home, as well as in the garage and car, in case I am chased or choose to retreat. All are loaded and ready to fire, but I have no children visitors. If I did I would unload them and hide them well in high places with magazines hidden in a high area of a different room. If I had regular children visitors I would get a safe.
__________________
In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.
TomNJVA is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 04:08 PM   #24
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: Weekend cowboy
Posts: 542
Quote:
The original intention was to bring and share this news story. To show that shootings don't just happen in larger populated areas and to once again show how this is spreading even into quiet rural areas. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised because of the proximity to the freeway and our location between Chicago and Milwaukee
I have learned a long time ago, not to equate more urban areas with higher crime rates. Sometimes, just the reversal is true. I live in a very urban area. No fields or vacant properties. Trying to find parking is a nightmare. There are two subway lines and two bus lines within walking distance. The neighborhood is predominantly Russian and Chinese, with a smattering of Orthodox Jewish and older-generation Italians. There is virtually no crime. And I mean none. You can go days without seeing a single police cruiser drive by. When something does happen, it is usually just some drunk guy acting stupid.

Now let's see about Nassau County: It is suburban, with a few pockets of rural, and very woodsy. A few gated communities, and a few family owned farms. A lot of criminal activity. Very heavy drug trafficking and high population of addicts. And A LOT of gang-related murders. MS-13 and Latin Kings seem to frequent the area and settle scores there. Many bodies dredged up from rivers and ponds. Several high profile cases over the recent years of innocent high-schoolers lured out into the woods and barbarically slaughtered for gang initiations. Also a drug addict named David Laffer massacred five people in a CVS store because he wanted oxycodone pills and did not want to leave witnesses. A lot of highways nearby. With a lot of exits and entrance ramps. Translate that to a lot of contraband flowing back and forth. And prostitution. If I am living in Nassau I am going to carry even inside my home. Don't know about apartments, but if in a house, I am definitely toting a gun everywhere. A LOT of home invasions. And raccoons. Some of which are rabid and have attacked pets and children.

Quote:
It turns out there was a road rage incident and 2 drivers suffered gunshot wounds!
Illustrates that you don't have to live in an area with a lot of criminals to be unsafe. There are a lot of emotional and immature children trapped in adult bodies out there. Adult bodies that have unfettered access to booze, drugs, vehicles and weapons. Any number of things can make these seemingly normal individuals tick off and start acting irrationally and dangerously. Remember, John W. Gacy did not live in a bad neighborhood. Yet, 30 neighborhood residents were murdered and stuffed into a crawlspace under that guy's basement.
Rachen is offline  
Old November 17, 2018, 07:53 PM   #25
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,930
Quote:
Why is this so difficult? I've stated 3 times already I do not and am not going to carry a firearm all day everyday inside my house...
It's not so much that it's difficult as it is a matter of what you want to do being more or less ineffective against what you have stated you want to prepare for.

If someone says they want to be able to remove Torx screws but stated that they were going to buy a set of Phillips head screwdrivers for that purpose, it makes sense that people would speak up and point out that Phillips head screwdrivers won't meet their requirements, even if the original person is adamant about wanting Phillips head screwdrivers. I think that's what's going on here.
Quote:
Now someone please explain the difference between keeping one in one of these lock boxes or in a nightstand drawer? A nightstand isn't going to keep it away from little hands.
Correct. I believe the comment about the nightstand was based on the assumption that no children would be able to access the area during the night when the gun was in that position.

If you want to keep the gun away from children, something that locks is definitely the way to go.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10247 seconds with 8 queries