Lead bullets and pistol clean-up.

[arfan]

Having just completed reloading 50 lead bullet cartriges for my 9mm Beretta, I became curious about cleaning the firearm after my next trip to the range. Will the lead be more difficult to clean from the weapon than the FMJ bullets I've been using? The lead bullets are definately less expensive to purchase than the jacketed ones and will allow more shooting fun at the range. But, I do not want to make the gun maintenance more difficult (time consuming)... Neither do I want to negatively affect the operability of the gun.

Thanks!

[rodwhaincamo]

I'm looking forward to the experienced replies here as I want a good penetrating bullet for hog defense in my 44. As for FMJ all I can find is 1 at 240 grns, which seems minimal. Seems my handgun is hard enough to clean as it is. But it seems hard cast bullets are my only heavy choice.

[Jim243]

Im not the right person to answer you, but i too loaded 9 mm hard cast lead RN for my PX4 Storm. Doesn't seem any harder to clean than FMJ. Actually I have a harder time getting copper fowlling out than lead. Also used the lead bullets in my PT92 without any issues. Just keep you FPS under 1,200 and should not be a problem.

[dwhite]

I use hard cast lead in 40 S&W and 357 mag. I usually don't have any excessive lead build up in either cartridge. My 40's run around 900 fps. The 357's run up to 1400 fps. They are a lot cheaper than jacketed, that's why I use them.

Some of the faster powders seem to cause more leading. TiteGroup is reported to be especially bad as it's double-base the nitroglycerin makes it burn much hotter than single base powder. There seems to be a sweet spot between powder speed, bullet diameter, bullet hardness, and barrel diameter. I use Clays for my 40 loads and have minimal leading. I know it's pretty fast, but it works, for me.


I'm curious what your load is.

Good Luck.

Let us know how they work.

All the Best,
D. White

[FlyFish]

I don't have experience with 9 mm directly, but I shoot lead in a number of other calibers. You may or may not end up with lead fouling, and there doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to be any way to predict if it's going to be a problem with a specific gun/bullet/load combination.

You should be able to see lead fouling as dark deposits in the grooves, usually (in my experience) more toward the breech than the muzzle. I've had great luck removing it quickly and completely by wrapping a bore brush or wool mop with pieces from a Chore Boy copper scrubbing pad. A couple passes through the barrel and the lead is gone. Sort of a poor man's Lewis Lead Remover, which also works great but costs a bit more. Just be sure the scrubbing pad is all-copper (which the Chore Boy brand is), some are copper-coated steel and might damage your barrel.

[rodwhaincamo]

So if any major lead deposits are in the barrel it's a breeze to remove? I seem to have trouble cleaning my gun after using jacketed bullets. I was told to let the solution sit for some time before cleaning. Seems after 45-60 mins I still get slightly dirty patches. I've yet to shoot since I can't seem to get ammo when I look so I haven't tried this yet.

[FlyFish]

So if any major lead deposits are in the barrel it's a breeze to remove? I seem to have trouble cleaning my gun after using jacketed bullets.

The Chore Boy thing works like a charm for me and just about everyone else I know who's tried it. I've never been particularly concerned about jacket fouling in handguns - in my rifles, which is a different matter, I use liberal applications of a commercial copper remover followed by a few passes with JB Bore Paste.

FWIW, I don't think I've ever had a dry patch come out of a gun barrel without some dark marks on it. I think just the steel from even a perfectly clean barrel will leave marks on a dry patch. Even if there is a little something left behind, I suspect it does less damage than the amount of cleaning necessary to remove it.

[DBAR]

I usually let my barrel soak in Kroil which is a very thin, deep penetrating oil. I let it soak for 6 hours or so, sometimes over night. I then use a regular brush, and run it through 50 of so times, run a soaked patch through it, and then a few dry ones.

I found that it all works better if your barrel is clear of all copper, and lead before your start shooting lead. I use "one patch" for the copper, and kroil for the lead.

Good luck,
DBAR

[Stargazer]

I just got a new Redhawk in 45 Colt. I was using "only" jacketed bullets until I got tired of putting out .60 cents every time I pulled that trigger. I ordered some lead bullets to try out and if it works out the cost will only be .33 cents or so for powder, primer and bullet, delivered. The bullet maker strongly suggested to remove ALL copper fouling prior to using any of his bullets. So I got myself some M Pro-7 copper remover. No ammonia in this brand. With a flashlight you could literally see the copper fouling rather easily. It took 30 minutes, three cycles of wet patch liberally, run through the bore, let sit for 10 minutes and then swab out with a clean dry patch. The bore is shiny steel only now. I had shot about (250) hot loads through her with mainly 300 grain jacketed bullets. The copper fouling was very evident.

Now I got to find some of that chore boy stuff, fixing to have lead fouling, minimal I do hope, to clean up.

[LHB1]

I have no experience with 9mm but have shot hard cast lead bullets since 1964 in .357 Mag, .44 Mag, and .45 ACP with no leading problems. IME the pistol barrels clean up just fine with a few passes of bronze bore brush soaked in Shooters Choice Bore Cleaner followed by dry swabs/mops. Softer swaged bullets may lead more but I do not use them. Some people report using small pieces of chore boy brass cleaning pad wrapped around bronze bore brush to clean lead from barrels. Have never tried it because none of my guns ever leaded enough to need it. Good luck with your cast lead 9mm loads.

[Snobal]

What LBH1 said --- except, I've been shooting cast bullets since the late 60's in .38, .357, 41, 44, and 45 LC....

...and....

I have not had good luck with store-bought "hard-cast" bullets.

I usually get some bore leading with "hard" bullets.

But I have had wonderful results with home-cast bullets made of wheel-weights and a little added tin to get the bullets to cast well (from 2% to 5%), with the old-time NRA formula bullet lube.

With the softer wheel-weight and tin alloy, I get a touch of forcing cone leading in all of my revolvers with most powders, and almost none in .44 Mag at near max charges of H-4227 or IMR-4227 powder. With that alloy, I can wipe out the bore with a patch.

If needed, I use a Lewis Lead remover to clean the forcing cone.

The best part of pouring your own lead bullets is being able to size them to fit a particular revolver. For example, my .44 Mag Redhawk shoots the best with bullets sized to .431 and a compressed load of H-4227. I've taken several deer with that load in SC and NY --- and shot informal competition with it.

JMHO --- YRMV

[freakshow10mm]

If you have a bullet that is sized properly to your groove diameter, cast of proper alloy, and the lube is quality, and use a medium to slow burning powder, you won't have problems.

After shooting lead I clean my guns with a squirt of Hoppe's Elite and two to three passes with a Boresnake. Clean barrel.

[frumious]

I have been reloading for about a year now. I use moly-koated lead bullets from billy bullets. I started with 45acp and now do 9mm and 38spl as well. I currently use Bullseye, which is one of the fastest-burning powders available, but I only load at starting charge weight or a little higher as I am reloading for economy, not load development.

When I used AA#7 I thought the .45 was a lot dirtier after each session than it had been when I was shooting Winchester White Box. When I switched to Bullseye it got less dirty so I guess the slower-burning AA#7 was the culprit there.

I have not noticed a problem with leading at all. That could be due to either the moly-kote or the lower velocities I shoot at. I think the moly-kote is worth the few extra $$ just to keep from messing with bullet lube.

-cls

[bamaranger]

Just went through all of this w/ a buddy and 9mm loads.

His pistol leaded heavily, after we had loaded a considerable # of lead 9mm on my multistage.

Scrubbed plenty, but the final solution was to let the dismounted, field stripped bbl soak in a butter tub of Hoppe's #9 for about 24 hrs. It brushed out easlily then.

Our problem was likely "soft" hard commercial lead bullets. Load was moderate, 1000 fps or less in the manual. ( no notes but I'm thnkin' 4.3 gr Unique and 125 gr LRN)

[fourdollarbill]

I shoot 357 mags and sometimes when trying a new bullet or making a new load I can lead them up something fierce. BUT it only takes me less then one minute to clean the heaviest lead out of any bore.

If you have any leading do this:

1. Unroll an Oh'Cedar or Chore Boy brand pure copper scrub pad and cut a 2" sleeve off.
2. Roll that sleeve around a 22 caliber bronze cleaning brush.
3. Lube it with Hoppes #9 or your solvent.
4. Twist and feed it in the bore and scrub the lead out in about 10+ strokes.
5. Patch the bore clean and your done.

[bswiv]

Somewhere around here I still have 2 small bottles of MERCURY that my dad used to use to remove lead. He'd plug one end of the barrel and carefully fill it with the MERCURY.

As best I can tell the lead gets disolved in the MERCURY much as amalgum used in tooth filling.

Big problem is that the darn stuff is, as I understand it, VERY toxic if you get it on you or breath the vapors.

I might be over cautious but I have not opened those bottles in 30 years................

It works good though!!!

[That'll Do]

To answer the original poster's question, in my experience it is much easier to clean out lead fouling than copper from jacketed bullets.

I shoot lead out of a 40 S&W, 357 Magnum, and 44 Special, and I have very little, if any leading. Lead is very easy on a barrel, in my opinion.

[bluetopper]

I shoot hard cast lead exclusively bullets in my 9mm 1911 and do not get any leading, so you may not either.

I shoot 147gr bullets the vast majority of the time.

[mapsjanhere]

The problem with using mercury is not acute toxicity while working with it unless you heat it. The issue is spills, and breathing mercury vapors for the next 10 years. Those little droplets that get away from you is what kills you slowly.
My advise, call your local waste company and find out where to get rid of it. There's just no good household use for it.

[bswiv]

As I said I've been to worried about the toxicity of it to use it. Should do as you say so a accident doesn't happen.........

[B.L.E.]

I believe that mercury will also dissolve copper fouling.

[c.j.sikes]

freakshow 10mm is right, i shoot lead in 9mm cast my own and size same in all cal. no leading problem to speak of in years. size to bore size and make them hard and i use lyman lub. i shoot all pistol and a lot of rifle in lead, sure is cheaper. thanks cjs

[jepp2]

Lead is "different" to remove than jacketed bullets. The Lewis Lead remover kit works very well. Chore Boy wrapped also works (get the true Chore Boy - all copper, not the copper plated substitutes).

Maybe it's a different perspective of what Leading looks like. I have shot swaged and hard cast lead and always had some lead to clean out. Brushes don't work very well to remove it. But it is not that hard to clean out with the correct equipment.

A lot will depend on your loads, and how well your pistol handles them. Don't try to shoot out any lead deposited, by shooting jackets bullets after you shoot lead.

[freakshow10mm]

Point being if you guys are having that much trouble cleaning your barrel you aren't shooting proper bullets.

[res45]

Say you have two identical bullets both sized to .356 dia. one is cast for straight WW alloy with a BHN hardness of say 10 and the other is cast from straight Linotype alloy with a BHN hardness of say 20+. This also applies to most commercial bullets though very few are cast any softer than 18 BHN.

Both bullets are loaded in identical case,primer,powder charge. If the particular bullet is to hard for the pressure generated by the load used it want obturate/enlarge enough to seal the bore properly and the harder bullet will actually shoot slower than the softer bullet that provides the correct seal to the bore although correct size is important it's not the only thing you have to consider.

Some commercial cast bullet maker offer different BHN bullets,the softer BHN bullets are designed to be shot at lower velocities and lower pressures that will generate enough pressure to cause the bullet to obturate,for higher velocities a harder bullet is needed to take the pressure created by the load,leading in not caused by friction as most people assume it caused by gas cutting or blowby. As the velocity and pressure goes up so should the bullet hardness.

Proper bullet size,hardness and lube all come into play. I shoot pure lead,in between and hard cast bullets in all my handguns semi and revolvers,leading has never been a problem,as long as you match you bullets BHN,lube and load properly you should have no leading issues.

Also another important point if your going to shoot lead in your revolver or semi make sure you clean all the copper fouling from the bore first copper fouling will strip lead off the bullet,use a dedicated copper remover or make your own from 10% janitors strength ammonia,you can use it straight or cut it 4 parts ammonia to 1 parts water and have the same thing a commercial stuff.