The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 13, 2022, 05:37 PM   #1
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
Enfield No4Mk1 What Am I Looking At Here?

I don't know much about Enfield rifles.

Here's a local offering and I can't make any sense of the markings (or lack thereof)

Can anyone give me any insight based on the few crappy photos?

Thanks!

Jay
Attached Images
File Type: jpg enf5.jpg (25.3 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg enf1.jpg (274.3 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg enf2.jpg (112.7 KB, 59 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 05:38 PM   #2
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
A few more images...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg enf3.jpg (86.2 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg enf4.jpg (212.4 KB, 48 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 05:39 PM   #3
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 14,835
WW2 British military surplus rifle. Over the past 10 years prices on many milsurps have gone through the roof. Unless you are a collector, I wouldn't see any reason tho buy one.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is online now  
Old January 13, 2022, 06:45 PM   #4
BornFighting88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2021
Posts: 272
I had two over the years. Mine were both No.4 Mk1's. I had a sporterized one for hunting with. It was chambered in the original 303 British. An obscure rimmed rifle round. Cock on close, made for a really quick working action for a follow up shot. But if you didn't load the magazine correctly, loading is troublesome. Just make sure the rim of the cartridge against the feed lips is AHEAD of the following cartridge.

They are fun to hit the range with, for sure. Some joker milled a relief in the bolt raceway to allow the bolt face to flip up for removing the bolt. A few times I had needed a quick follow up shot for a running deer only to have the bolt come all the way out the back of the receiver!!

Also had a beater range day parts frankenstein gun. The trigger and sear in it were trash when I picked it up for less than a hundred bucks. A TIG welder and some time and I had it back in shooting condition.

I liked them when I had them. Just wanted something else, so I sold them both off for a huge profit.
BornFighting88 is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 07:26 PM   #5
105kw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2017
Location: Columbia Basin Washington
Posts: 308
Later WW2 Brit Enfield, it has the later flip rear sight.
They can be fun guns, but the cheap surplus ammo is long gone.
Thr R O F on the action band is Royal Ordinance Fazakerly, which is in Liverpool, I think.
Either it was built there, or rebuilt there.
105kw is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 08:12 PM   #6
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,607
I have a No4 MK1 and a No4 MK1*. Yours looks a bit rough, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

They are fairly common and well made rifles, and IMO they are decent shooting rifles as long as they have a decent bore.
Surplus ammo is dried up, but several companies make decent ammo for it.
I enjoy them at the range on a regular basis.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 08:40 PM   #7
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,824
Quote:
It was chambered in the original 303 British. An obscure rimmed rifle round.
Its a common round in Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and the Indian Army.

You can get Boxor brass and some bullet mfts make bullets for it (Hornandy)
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 08:54 PM   #8
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
Quote:
Thr R O F on the action band is Royal Ordinance Fazakerly, which is in Liverpool, I think.
Thanks. I'm used to seeing a neat and orderly display on the band and had no idea what that chicken scratch was!
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 13, 2022, 09:16 PM   #9
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 24,546
Quote:
It was chambered in the original 303 British. An obscure rimmed rifle round.
Obscure? I wouldn't call it that...Introduced in 1888 and officially the British service rifle cartridge until the late 1950s, it had a longer military service life than the .30-06 did.

And, as a sporting rifle round, filled the same niche throughout the British empire and Commonwealth that the .30-06 did in the US. Mostly is ex-service rifles sporterized to some extent though there were some fine rifles built as sporters from the design up chambered in .303 British.

And, btw, if the bolt head of your No4 Mk1 flips up on its own, the rifle is broken. There is a spring loaded catch on the action (and not particuarly easy to use on a new rifle) with the sole function of preventing the bolt head from flipping up, unless you push down on the catch, first. Unless this catch is missing or broken you have to use it to get the bolt out of the action.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 14, 2022, 06:17 PM   #10
BornFighting88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2021
Posts: 272
That catch was removed and a slot milled into the bolt raceway to do the same thing. Boy did that bother me to no end.

Chap that bought it from me knew full well when he purchased it. Probably a wall hanger now.
BornFighting88 is offline  
Old January 14, 2022, 08:21 PM   #11
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
Anyone care to offer a rough value based on the scant info we currently have?

Assuming head space and bore condition check out.


Jay
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 15, 2022, 10:21 AM   #12
BornFighting88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2021
Posts: 272
We can.... but be prepared... it may just be what WE ourselves are willing to offer you for it. Best best is to check recently finished auctions on GB or other sold rifles of similar grade to see what they are going for on the market.

Back in 2010 when I purchased my beater rifle for parts, it was like $150 out the door. The sporterized one was closer to $300 before tax and tag. But as mentioned earlier in this thread, surplus rifles have sky rocketed as of late. Don't be surprised to see that this rifle you have, if in ok shooting condition, would be worth more than both of those I mentioned combined.
BornFighting88 is offline  
Old January 15, 2022, 02:13 PM   #13
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
Understood. Local guy is asking $500. The few I've seen offered online are going for about $450, which would exceed that after FFL and shipping.

I may go look at it, but my gut says its not the best specimen. I do collect bolt surplus rifles, but have not delved into the .303's yet.

I probably need to cruise some pawn shops first.


Jay
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 15, 2022, 06:06 PM   #14
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 24,546
I bought mine, in like new condition for $75. Of course, that was about 30 some years ago....

Supply and demand and the value of today's money have changed that a lot since then.

Sorry I can't be of more help on current prices.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 16, 2022, 12:06 PM   #15
BornFighting88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2021
Posts: 272
Well the price falls into the going rate. That’s not an alarm bell, at least to me. Go look at it if you can. Get someone to put a light in the bore. The original 303 British round was packed with some stringy propellant called “Cordite” (correct me on spelling if I’ve hacked it up), and corrosive Berdan primers, so the bores on some of them could be almost smooth.

A lot of them used Boxer primed brass with more modern powder propellant. So you should be ok. But then again. These are nearly 100 year old pieces. Do your due diligence.

All the best!
BornFighting88 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:46 PM   #16
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
I picked it up yesterday. Five bills for the rifle, 2 boxes of PPU and 4 clips. Probably not my greatest deal, but I wanted it and had the dinero.

Everything looks OK to me. Dirty but serviceable.

Got more pics to share. I still don't know what year it is or who made it.

Input welcome.

Jay





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E1.jpg (892.2 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg E2.jpg (799.4 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg E27.jpg (700.0 KB, 64 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:48 PM   #17
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
More pics....





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E3.jpg (618.6 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg E4.jpg (639.1 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg E5.jpg (541.9 KB, 63 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:49 PM   #18
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
More pics





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E6.jpg (538.7 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg E8.jpg (470.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg E9.jpg (266.7 KB, 62 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:51 PM   #19
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
More pics...





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E13.jpg (577.0 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg E14.jpg (541.1 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg E15.jpg (589.0 KB, 62 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:53 PM   #20
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
More pics...





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E16.jpg (833.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg E17.jpg (842.7 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg E18.jpg (530.7 KB, 61 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:54 PM   #21
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
More pics...





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E19.jpg (695.8 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg E20.jpg (599.4 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg E21.jpg (591.6 KB, 62 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:56 PM   #22
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
More pics...





Attached Images
File Type: jpg E22.jpg (541.3 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg E23.jpg (555.0 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg E24.jpg (470.2 KB, 60 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 05:59 PM   #23
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
Last one...



I'm very pleased to see that none of the fasteners are tortured and distorted.

Anyone know what the welded over hole is on the left side of receiver?


Thanks.

Jay
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E26.jpg (433.4 KB, 60 views)
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 06:28 PM   #24
jaytex1969
Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2007
Posts: 42
I don't see an import mark yet.

Is that it near the muzzle, or is that some kind of proof stamping?
jaytex1969 is offline  
Old January 17, 2022, 07:24 PM   #25
BornFighting88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2021
Posts: 272
$500 isn't bad for that deal. In current climate.

The sporterized one I had was a Long Branch out of Canada, and it had 1944 clearly stamped next to the model number on the left side of the receiver.

The only thing you might have to really do requiring elbow grease is take all the wood off and scrub any cosmoline out. The parts gun I had was caked in the stuff under all the wood. Bore looks ok on yours. You will enjoy that rifle, for sure.

Figure early 1940's for the year of your make.
BornFighting88 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06678 seconds with 11 queries