1911 triggers

[WVsig]

Go to your local gun shop ask to see all the 1911s which match your personal needs and then test the trigger of each gun. Select the best trigger based on your personal criteria.

Rise and repeat and enjoy ...

[Tactical Jackalope]

^ +1 with WVsig

Nothing beats the good old fashioned "draw your own conclusion".

They're way too many awesome ones out there for anyone to decide on just one. I have personally owned several different ones, and I still don't feel knowledgeable enough to say which I feel is "best".

[pete2]

I sold guns for a few years. I found that the trigger pull varied greatly form one gun to the next. Try it before you buy it is the only way to tell. If you can afford a Wilson, Baer, or some other semi custom it should have a good trigger every time. Colt, S&W, Sig, Kimber, ETC. will vary greatly from gun to gun.

[LED]

Pete I understand the philosophy. And which model do YOU go to for the trigger?
I really dont want to shell out too much. I am not even shopping. I want to hear what models people look at first.

RecoilJunky, GeetRman -thanks

[SauerGrapes]

My Springfield Range Officer had the crispest, glass breaking trigger out of the box, I've seen in a couple years. Not the lightest mind you but, very nice to shoot.
I just bought a Colt Combat Elite a couple months ago. One of the worst triggers I've ever shot out of the box. Great gun, just needed some trigger work.

[WVsig]

Pete I understand the philosophy. And which model do YOU go to for the trigger?
I really dont want to shell out too much. I am not even shopping. I want to hear what models people look at first.

You do not seem to understand the info being given to you. Triggers on production guns will vary from gun to gun even within a single company line or even the same model.

Take 5 Wiley Clap instant collectible Colt 1911s and you will find that there will be 5 different triggers on those 5 guns.

If you are looking for the best trigger you can get you always choose the individual gun not the brand or the model. As others have pointed out it is not hard to take almost any in spec 1911 and get it to the point where it has an excellent trigger.

If you need a list which does not equate to reality here is one. In my experience the best production 1911s on the market today are as follows. This however does not mean you will get the best trigger from these guns right out of the box. These recommendations are based on overall build quality and reliability because as it has been stated over and over again in this thread the actual trigger you get from a production 1911 will vary from one gun to another.

1. Dan Wesson: They were by far the best value when they used cast frames and you could get a CBOB for less than $900 all day long. Now the entry level guns with forged frames start around $1200. They are as close to semi-custom as it gets in the production world but you are paying close to or the same as semi-custom guns like Les Baer.
2. Colt: $850 to $1200 I am a Colt Fan I think that they still make a great production 1911. They are better today with the CNC machines etc... then they were in the 80s. You can get a quality Colt under $900.
3. SA: $800 to $1500 I prefer SAs to all the other new-comers like Ruger, Remington etc... They have a proven track record of producing quality forged frame 1911s even if they take some liberties with some of JMB spec.
4. STI Spartan: $700 This is a RIA with STI parts and a little more attention at the Armscor factory. They are a very nice gun with a lot of nice competition type features at a bargin price. Great gateway drug....
5. RIA when you get the sub $700 level these are my personal go to recommendation. You get a lot for your money. They will run they have a decent warranty and 95% of shooters cannot out shoot these guns nor will they shoot enough rounds out of them to shoot them to the point of failure.

I personally am not a fan of external extractor 1911s I will not comment on S&W and Sig although I have own 1911s from both companies.

[LED]

This is only a guess, but in the litigious society, wouldn't it make sense to manufacturers to leave the 1911 trigger pull mil-spec rough. As a line of defense in negligent discharge cases? I thought Range Officer was a good sounding name, but there might be a legal hint that the model is for sports, not self defense. So they can in fact improve the trigger when they want to, even in a lower$$ model.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Microgunner

He said more movement was designed into the trigger to insure the block was deactivated.

He was mistaken.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by LED

If you were to buy a 1911 within $1500 or so, shooting for sports, with no gunsmith in sight, and trigger is king, which model would you check out first?

Colt Gold Cup O5070X (the stainless version -- to get the beavertail and "combat" hammer).

But if you and I each bought one on the same day, the triggers most likely would not have the same pull weight or the same amount of creep.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Colt Gold Cup O5070X (the stainless version -- to get the beavertail and "combat" hammer).

But if you and I each bought one on the same day, the triggers most likely would not have the same pull weight or the same amount of creep.

Yup. Colt Gold Cup Trophy Match. One of my most accurate semi auto handguns.

[1911Tuner]

Triggers on production guns will vary from gun to gun even within a single company line or even the same model.

This...and the reason for it is that production pistols aren't built...they're assembled. There is little if any hand-fitting, and only if necessary to get the required function after cherry picking through the parts or assemblies.

This is only a guess, but in the litigious society, wouldn't it make sense to manufacturers to leave the 1911 trigger pull mil-spec rough. As a line of defense in negligent discharge cases?

What is "Mil Spec Rough?" A rough, gritty/creepy trigger indicates that something is wrong. US Army ordnance specs called for 5-6 pounds, which...while a bit heavier than what most people want...is still perfectly serviceable. I've handled a lot of USGI pistols with very little use, including a few Remington Rands that appeared to be ANIB, and I've never found one that had what I'd describe as a "rough" trigger.

A small amount of creep, as long as it's smooth, doesn't qualify as rough.
In fact, a true Mil Spec 1911 pistol should exhibit a little creep in the trigger due to the long, undersquare hammer hooks. "Glass Rod" triggers are partly achieved by cutting the hooks below ordnance minimum length and squaring them...which means that they're essentially out of spec.

Now for the IMHO segment:

These 3.5-4 pound triggers that seem to be all the rage are useful mainly on the target range during deliberate slow fire. They sprang from Bullseye competition. If you ever have to shoot for blood, you won't notice the difference between a 3.5-4 pound glass rod trigger and a 5-5.5 pound ordnance spec trigger...not will it likely have any bearing on the outcome of the fight, other than possibly firing the gun before you want to or need to in the heat of the moment due to the trigger being a bit too ticklish.

[Hunter Customs]

If you ever have to shoot for blood, you won't notice the difference between a 3.5-4 pound glass rod trigger and a 5-5.5 pound ordnance spec trigger...not will it likely have any bearing on the outcome of the fight, other than possibly firing the gun before you want to or need to in the heat of the moment due to the trigger being a bit too ticklish.

If you fired the gun before you wanted or needed to you violated a very important safety rule.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire the gun, then the 3.5-4 pound trigger pull will not get you in any trouble.

I've seen many out of the box triggers that will go 8 pounds.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[Skans]

Series 80 Colt Gold Cup National Match.

[LED]

The trigger on my 80 series Colt GC Trophy stainless was also wobbly. Not that it caused any problems, just a slightly annoying feel. Given the sample variations, did your Colt have that?

By mil spec rough I mean a combat grade trigger. I do not carry a 1911 for duty or self defense. My interest is in sports shooting. I want a mil spec trigger on my battle rifle like the kalash back in the day, but a touchy feely one on my target gun.

[1911Tuner]

If you fired the gun before you wanted or needed to you violated a very important safety rule.

Safety rules? In a gunfight?

I've used a little exercise that I call "Beat the Drop" to demonstrate that particular "safety" rule can get you killed. It's been an eye-opener for a good many young cops I'm acquainted with.

Basically, they stand behind me with an empty gun at high-ready, finger off trigger, safety ON. Mine is loaded, by my side, in one hand...held loosely/casually...with instruction to "fire" when they see me move.

When they learn that they can't wipe off the safety and pull that trigger in time to keep me from shooting them...we step up to on target/off trigger/on safe.

They still can't beat me.

Then it goes to off safe/on target/finger off.

Same results.

Then we go all the way to finger on/off safe/on target.

By the time we get around to finger on/safety off/on target, the quicker ones can match me...with the occasional shooter who can get his shot off slightly ahead of me by maybe .1 second. The ones who use DA revolvers and autos never even get close.

And they're full expecting me to make that move.

And I'm old...and I have a bad rotator cuff...and I'm not nearly as quick as I once was.

[Skans]

just a slightly annoying feel. Given the sample variations, did your Colt have that?

No, it has a very crisp trigger - no wobble. I have compared it against a series 70 and there's no way I can tell any difference. That's why I stated it was a Series 80. The Series 80 guns are often considered second rate to Series 70....I know the differences, but I think the feel of the trigger on a Series 70 is all hype. Just my opinion based on my experience.

[Tactical Jackalope]

No, it has a very crisp trigger - no wobble. I have compared it against a series 70 and there's no way I can tell any difference. That's why I stated it was a Series 80. The Series 80 guns are often considered second rate to Series 70....I know the differences, but I think the feel of the trigger on a Series 70 is all hype. Just my opinion based on my experience.

I have a Series 70 and the Gold Cup...and I'll have to agree with you on that for the most part when it comes to shooting rapidly or double taps. But, there IS something different when you're doing concentrated tight groups, where the Series 70 breaks a little more...how can I explain this. It breaks differently. Really hard to explain, but I notice it when I'm shooting at the range. Cool, calm, and collectively.

[LED]

Tuner1911
During the exercise, why did your instructees stand behind you, even with the empty guns?

[geetarman]

My first 1911 was a series 70 Gold Cup. I still remember how good the trigger felt when I got it. It was like no experience before. I sold that gun after I moved to Arizona in 1990. I never shot another 1911 until a couple of years ago. The gun I bought was a Sig 1911 TacPac. Steel frame, not alloy. There is no way I can compare the triggers of those two guns but I get almost the same rush with my newer 1911s as I did with my older ones. It is hard to explain, but my 1911s just feel "right." My fingers are not sensitive enough any more to feel subtle differences in trigger pull. I can feel creep and gritty triggers and my guns are not creepy or gritty. I just can't tell if the current crop of guns is better or worse than the old Gold Cup. It really does not make a difference. They have good triggers and they shoot good.

[stephen426]

LED,

If you are looking in the $1500 range, I would try to find a nice pre-owned Les Baer. I have the Tunder Ranch Special and a Monolith Heavyweight. These guns are built incredibly tight and have great triggers. If you want to go new, check out STI. I have the Edge, but that is more of a competition gun. You might want to check out the Range Master which is right near your price point.

[1911Tuner]

If you fired the gun before you wanted or needed to you violated a very important safety rule.

They were behind me and off to the right...still able to see me move, but not pointing their guns directly at me.

And, I verified the guns' condition twice before we started and at each successive escalation.

The point is that reaction will always lose to action, as Bill Jordan proved dramatically during Ed Cantrell's murder trial by drawing and firing a round before a deputy could pull the trigger on an aimed, cocked revolver. Of course, few of us can effect a .30 second hit from the leather...but most of us can if the gun is already in our hands, even pointed straight at the ground.

Since the average human reaction time runs from 1/2 to 3/5ths of a second...even the best of us will be hit at about the same time our finger finds the trigger.

So, this idea of finger off trigger/pistol at low-ready works well on the range and in the classroom...but it can get a body shot all to Helen Gone when the flag flies for real.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not a cop. I won't be ordering a suspect to freeze/drop your weapon or holding him at gunpoint. Pointing a gun at someone is lethal force...or in some jurisdictions...even unholstering the gun is construed as lethal force or the threat of. If the situation has deteriorated to the point that I have to pull the gun...pulling the trigger is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by LED

My interest is in sports shooting. I want a mil spec trigger on my battle rifle like the kalash back in the day, but a touchy feely one on my target gun.

Then your $1500 budget is probably unrealistic, and you should stop even thinking about a production 1911 and start pricing custom (or at least semi-custom) pistols.

Or else learn how to tune your own triggers. It isn't difficult. (Even I can do it.)

[geetarman]

It isn't difficult. (Even I can do it.)

BUT. . .can you lawyer proof it?

[BigJimP]

The best triggers on my 1911's right out of the box came from Wilson Combat....and on both of my Wilson's I didn't spec a trigger pull / I left it up to them - with their spec on that model ( 3.5 - 3.75 lbs). I expected no creep - and no slack ...and I wasn't disappointed ( one gun is right at 3.75 lbs ...one is right at 3.5 lbs )..and they're mid grade models ( CQB, Protector ) ....not his higher end guns.

But in today's prices - both Wilson's are over $3K ...and if I order another gun from them, I'll probably spec it at 3.5 lbs which is what I like on a carry or range gun in a 5" 1911 / not that I can't live with 3.75 lbs....
-------------
Around $ 1,500 ....I'd probably expect the better triggers out of Springfield or maybe today's Colt's / but I see too many with too much slack or creep in the triggers that I would want removed.

The good news is....the triggers on any of them can be cleaned up ....for a few hundred bucks.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by geetarman

BUT. . .can you lawyer proof it?

???

He said this is to be a target pistol. What needs to be lawyer-proofed?