Making the Jump-Single to Progressive!

[Heartbar]

Been doing some Cowboy Action Shooting and really going through the rounds. This means I have been spending more time than I want in front of my old rock chucker press!

I am shooting about 500 rounds a month right now, and with summer coming would like to increase that to 800 to a thousand. I shoot 45 LC revolvers and a 357 lever gun ( I also need to be able to load for family and friends, so I guess I need to include, 9mm 44 mag,) I need to be able to load relatively large quantities of these calibers.

Before it gets suggested, the Dillon 650 is out of my budget (I am still acquiring CAS guns and between that and buying reloading components, my budget can only afford around $300 to $400 to upgrade my reloading bench)

Here are the things I have been considering:

1) getting a piggy back for my rock chucker (used around $125-$200)
2) buying a used Dillon RL450 (around $200)
3) buying a Lee Pro 1000 ($160)


Or if I have to to get decent reloads and a good rate:
4) pick up a used Dillon 550 (around $375 to $425)

Anyone want to offer any thoughts or suggestions on how to get where I want to go within the budget I have laid out?

[sixxgunnernick]

Dillon 550B 419.00 and thats new.

[MikeinMinn]

I love my 550B. The only thing that gets you is the conversion kits for each calliber. $42 gets you a powder funnle, shell plate, and locater buttons. You would need 4 differnent ones to do what you want. But its like any thing else once you have them, you have them.

[88KEYS]

I have the 550B it is great and Dillon has great costumer service, warranty service that you can count on. The Dillon had mine about 12 years. Loading many calibers, 9mm, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 44 Mag, 223, 308, 45-70, 50 Beowulf, and likely forgot one or two. The press is very user friendly you set up a tool head and the dies are all set; just have to change a few things ready to load. If you start with one or two calibers then pick up stuff as you go, the dies you have will work. Also quick story broke the cast iron at the base where the lever is attached to the ram. I called Dillon after having it about 10 years, they said send it back. About 3-4 weeks later it arrived and did not know it was mine, looked new. It did have a small paint spot when I painted my bench, so it was mine but was spotless. They updated the primer feed, brand new powder measure and the work order listed nearly $200.00 in parts, no charge.

[riverwalker76]

I love the Lee, and can out load my neighbor on his Dillon. We tried it a couple of weeks ago. I reloaded 125 rounds of .223 while he was still working on #110.

Although, it's all a matter of preference. A lot of folks out there who have to have the best of the best will say "Go with Dillon". I'm not one of those guys. I buy the basic model and am perfectly happy with it. I've loaded around 3k rounds of .223 on mine, and it's still ticking without a hiccup.

[Heartbar]

Dillon 550B 419.00 and thats new.

But what does it take in addition the the press to start getting production out of it? Seems like in all the ads I have seen the list of what options are shown, but not included in the price, is longer than the list of what is included!

May just be my impression, but I don't want to put out nearly $500 bucks and then have to spend another couple hundred to get much production going....

[Hey_Allen]

I went with Hornady, a Lock n Load AP press.

$400 for the press, which came with a powder throw (and both pistol and rifle measure drums for it), as well as a number of the die holder bushings that the LnL presses all use.

To put it to use requires dies for whatever calibers that you want to load, as well as the shell holder plate for that caliber, at ~$24 per caliber from Midway.

If you want to have all the dies you use setup with the bushings and able to just drop into the press, they run around $30 for a 12 pack if I remember correctly. Or you can just thread the dies into the bushings that come with the press and save the cost until you decide at a later point to buy or not buy more bushings.

It can also have an optional case feeder added, but I think that was an additional $200. I haven't been in that much of a rush, at least not just at the moment!

For me, with a sale at Cabella's, I ended up out the door for $427 with the press, two plates, and a soda.


I'm not going to get into the brand Red/Green/Blue/whatever being better argument, they all seem to work as far as I've been able to see.

[Magnum Mike]

Here's a Hornady L n L AP for $380. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...ku=00005095100 . I had mine in 4 days. Cabela's is more and charges me sales tax since they have a store in Minnesota.

[Doby45]

Lee LoadMaster. Cheap and dependable, makes quality ammo at a high rate of speed. I have made thousands of rounds of 40, 9mm, 45 and 223. There is absolutely nothing else on the market I would trade for my LoadMaster even if everything cost the exact same. Anyone on this board that says go with press X because you never have any problems with it is a liar, period. I have seen plenty of posts on this forum and others that encompass issues with every brand and model of press made. Nuff said..

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=108719

$229.99 with the dies you need, plate you need, powder drop and case feeder.

[David Wile]

Hey Heartbar,

If you can get a Hornady LNL AP for $380 at Mid South Shooters Supply as Magnum Mike noted, you ought to snap one up in a hurry. Nothing short of a Dillon 650 can compare with it, and I prefer the Hornady LNL over the Dillon 650. I am not saying the 650 isn't as good as the LNL, I am just saying I like the LNL better, and I have been using mine since 1997.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[73-Captain]

"A lot of folks out there who have to have the best of the best will say "Go with Dillon". I'm not one of those guys. I buy the basic model and am perfectly happy with it. I've loaded around 3k rounds of .223 on mine, and it's still ticking without a hiccup."



After suffering through the use of a RockCLUNKER, I went with a Lyman and was happy.

Thought I needed a progressive and thought I could not afford better so I went with a Lee 1000.

Suffered through the use of that Lee for way too many years until I could not stand it.

Bought a Dillon 650 and have never looked back.

Now I keep asking myself, WHY didn't I buy a Dillon in the first place!!!


Wow, loaded 3,000 rounds so far. That is just a few hours with my 650.

C.

[sixxgunnernick]

Rockclunker..not knockin it..maybe its good but thats funny.

[David Wile]

Hey Captain,

A Rockclunker? Are you serious? Do you have any idea how many RCBS RockChuckers have been sold in nearly 50 years, and do you have any idea how many folks still have and their original RockChuckers even though they may also have a progressive machine?

Rockclunker? Other than spitting way too many spent primers on the floor, the RockChucker has become the de-facto classic single stage press of the modern reloading era. It may not be the largest single stage press, and it may not be the best single stage press, but it is by sheer numbers sold the classic singe stage press against which all others are compared.

Whatever could have happened to you and your RockChucker press to make you describe it as a Rockclunker? I really would like to know.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Waldog]

Buy a Hornady LNL here: http://www.manventureoutpost.com/pro...Loader-AP.html

Can't beat this price ANYWHERE. ($362!!!) Great price on case feeder as well.

The only Dillon that can compare to the LNL is the 650. And, it's a whole lot more money.

(Both the Dillon and LNL are NICE presses. Which color do you like and how much do you want to spend?)

[riverwalker76]

Now ... in asking this question you see what I mean by my previous statement.

Everyone is going to say buy what their favorite is, and that's fine. That's what I found when I was in your shoes a little over a year ago. I ended up going with the Lee because of the price and reputation.

In some cases it's almost as bad as politics when you are discussing reloading equipment. I hear it locally all the time. "Don't buy RCBS junk" and "Don't buy Hornady Junk". It all boils down to what you want. Everyone is going to have something bad to say about the other product just because it's not what they chose. Every press out there will do what you want it to. It's all about who wants to buy what, and for what reason. I just happened to choose the brand that offered me the best setup for the least amount of money. Lee is American Made ... just like most of the others. With the money I saved by buying my Lee I bought a Nikon ProStaff for my .243, and I can still outload my neighbor who uses his Dillon.

See my point.

[Jobfix]

Several years ago I came soooooo close to selling my old RCBS single stage press and I am SOOOOO thankful that I kept it. It is very useful for going through the body sizing that has got to be done occasionally, swaging military brass primer pockets, used it necking down Win.284 ~ 6mm, just to name a few uses... Hang on to it! "O'B"

[Rig Magician]

I bought my LNL from manventures. I searched the web for over a month looking for th best price. Also they don't make up for there lower prices by adding to the shipping. I ordered several things and the shipping was only 15$. This is the second time I have ordered from them and I would recomend them to anyone. They didn't have the press in and I sent the customer service man asking for an ETA for it . He told me he would let me know when it came in. A few days later he sent me an email saying it was in. Iwent on line and it did not show up in the system. I sent him one back and he replied he added it to the web site. I checked back and it was there ready for me to order. Now that is good service to me. I am waitng for my dies and another shell plate to get in. He told me he would let me know when they arrive.
Mark

[dmazur]

May just be my impression, but I don't want to put out nearly $500 bucks and then have to spend another couple hundred to get much production going....

You shouldn't have to. Dillon includes one shellplate and caliber conversion kit (which includes the powder funnel) in a caliber you specify. (.45LC)

Additional calibers are $43 each -

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...Conversion_Kit

3 additional conversion kits are going to run you $129, assuming you have the dies you'll need for .357, 9mm and .44 Mag.

Yes, you can buy an additional toolhead for each caliber, and an additional powder measure. This makes caliber conversion about as quick as can be done on a 550B. However, you don't need these things to use it.

Assuming you're already reloading using a single stage, you already have a scale, calipers, reloading manuals, etc.

IMO, the 550B is a "low hassle factor" machine that is well worth the cost...

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, a fat number of Cabela's points, and the before the first of the year come-on of 1000 Hornady bullets, brought me to the point I had avoided for years.

It looks like the "free" bullets are now down to 500 rather then the 1000, at least that is what a couple of the companies are advertising at present.

I am still working through the learning cure, but have already put over a 1000 rounds through it - 45acp and .44mag - and sure can't see any reason for something else, cheaper or more expensive.

Not a Lee fan, so that was never a consideration, but expect the LNL to be with me until the son moves it away along with my years old RCBS single stage Rockchucker.

Hope that will be awhile yet. God knows, I don't know!

The RCBS press stays around to produce rifle fodder, but the LNL should keep the handguns well fed.

Keep em Coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[David Wile]

Hey Heartbar,

Back in your second post you mentioned you could get a new Dillon 550B for $419, and you finished the post by expressing your concern at spending $500 for a press and then having to spend hundreds more for extras. First off, there is a big difference between a Dillon 550B and a Hornady LNL AP. They are not comparable in any way. If you want to complare a Hornady LNL AP to a Dillon, it would have to be the Dillon 650, and Waldog and Magnum Mike both cited vendor where you could get the Hornady LNL AP for less than $400.

In response to your point of spending hundreds more to "get much production going," I am guessing that you are concerned about spending another $200 for case feeding equipment and hundreds more for bullet feeding equipment to add on to the 650 and the LNL. Yes, the adds show many add on items like the case feeder and the bullet feeders, but you have to get past those adds. Both the 650 and the LNL come out of the box ready to load ammo progressively. Like a single stage press, you will have to have whatever dies you wish to use, and you will need a shell plate for whatever calibers you wish to load. Like shell holders, shell plates are commonly used for several calibers. I have about 30 shell holders for my single stage loading, but I only have about nine shell plates that I have purchased over the years.

As far a case feeders, bullet feeders, powder cops, and special expansion dies, forget them. You do not need them to produce ammo progressively. Some folks have to get whatever is available for a human to purchase, but you really do not need those items. I have been using my LNL since 1997, and I have never found a need for any of those things. I have a friend with a case feeder, and I cannot stand the noise it makes. In my opinion, the case feeders and bullet feeders do not add much to overall throughput on the press. I also have never had a need for a powder cop of any kind since the Case Activated Powder Dispenser that comes with the machine is very accurate as long as I am using ball and flake powders. That is not true for extruded powders, however, so I simply do not use extruded powders on a progressive press.

You really do not have to spend extra money to get a LNL AP press operating. Other than dies which all machines require, you will only need a shell plate for whatever caliber you are loading. When I bought my LNL, a shell plate came with it, but I don't know if that is true any longer. If you have a shell plate and die set for the LNL, you can open the box and start loading with the press as it comes out of the box. The same is true of the 650.

Now, do you need extra things like a scale, loading blocks, manuals and a whole lot of other things like that? Absolutely. But you need those same things for single stage loading also, and since you already load on a RockChucker, you should have everything you need.

If you can afford $400 for a new progressive machine, you can obviously get a Hornady LNL AP which is a great machine, and you will not have to buy any of the add ons everybody offers. You simply do not need them. Once you take an LNL AP out of the box and learn how to use it, you can load one finished round with every cycle of the loading handle just as it comes. With each cycle of the handle, you will need to put a new case in the shell plate rotation, and you will have to place a bullet in a case mouth as you start to lower the handle and raise the ram. To feed a case, feed a bullet, and cycle the handle down and up will take me perhaps five seconds. That means one finished round every five seconds, and that is what I call progressive reloading.

For those who just have to have a case feeder and a bullet feeder to hurry things up, I ask what is next? A motor to operate the press handle? Then I guess those who are really pressed for time could just hire someone to operate their progressive press for them.

Do not get lost on all the add on stuff that is confusing to one trying to make an informed decision. With a die set and a shell plate, you can start reloading on an LNL AP right out of the box.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Really well said Dave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND ----If you factor in the value of the "free" bullets Hornady will gladly send you after buying their equipment, the LNL becomes an even better deal!

I am not as yet totally up to speed on my new LNL, but Ill tell you this about that, I am producing ammo one whale of a lot faster then I did for years on the single stage press, and I had that down to a system.

It will only get better from here, especially as I work through my hord of partly processed brass and get into the brass as it comes from the firearm.

Have a bunch of brass which has been batch processed to one point or another and this is preventing me from really getting a good system established on the new LNL.

However, due to the speed of the new press, it won't take long to work that pile down.

It took a long time before I came to buy a progressive, and considering the speed with which it produces ammo, just as it came form the factory, I'm not likely to buy a bunch of expensive and un-needed add ons.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[chaad]

With the number of different calibers, it is a pretty cheap changeover. I have had great results with mine, and the free bullets were a nice bonus. Amazon even carries the shell plates, in case your shop is out of them.

[Heartbar]

Thanks everyone for all the input.

I have stopped in and look at the comments, but have not had enough time to respond (been busy trying to get ammo loaded for this month!)

Here is what I have determined…

Option 1 most likely is out as I have the RC II, and if they make them I have not been able to find a piggy back set up for it. To buy another press, just to put the piggy back on, would raise the cost up to the point, I might as well spend a little more and get a true progressive press.

Option 2: No one commented on the used Dillon RL450... Just couldn’t make myself spend the money on ones that are that old, and the ones I came across were being sold by “finders” who had got them from estates and didn’t know anything about them or even if they were all there. Hope I don’t regret passing on the couple I found!

Option 3: As tempting as the economics of this press is(Lee Pro 1000), I can’t get past the poor reviews it received by people who had actually purchased it and tried it.

Option 4: I think I was being too conservative in my estimation of these units used. Used Dillon 550B’s are selling for well over $500 for the extras they have. And as far as buying a new Dillon, I just don’t think I like the way they are sold. Kind’a reminds me of the days when you went down to the car lot to buy a truck and they included the bumper as an “option.” Didn’t really need to have it, but they are kind’a nice to have. Almost every review I read included a comment the strong mount is a “must have.” Then why don’t they increase the price and just include it in the package. Seems to me that would be a more honest way of marketing…just my opinion.

Many mention the Hornady, Lock n Load AP press. The more I look into it, the more it seems like it will do what I want, and they seem like a company I wouldn’t mind doing business with. And the reviews by the people who have purchased them are very overwhelmingly positive.


Again thanks for the comments, you all definitely shortened my research time!

[TXGunNut]

I have a very early 550 (actually ordered a 450) but today the Hornandy looks good with the positive reviews and "free" bullets. I like their bullets and other products but had no problem with Dillon back when I was competing in a handgun game. Customer service was great, especially for a very new product. Back in those days a certain up-and-coming Bianchi Cup shooter was using their press and he always ran into a design issue a bit before I did and they almost always had a fix when I called. I have a pretty big pile of replaced parts, all sent free of charge! Would have been better if the press had never failed but I can't recall missing a match because of loader issues. I suspect today's 550B is a much better press than mine but mine had the bugs worked out long ago.
Keep your old single stage! I have two, one's an aluminum RCBS mounted to a portable table for load development at the range. Some day you'll get interested in rifle shooting and there she'll be, waiting patiently for you!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Afternoon Heartbar,

As I haven't followed much about Dillon products, I haven't picked up on the thoughts about needing some type of "strong" mounting system.

I have however, been using a system for 2 -3 years which is the best I have ever seen/used.

I went for years with the usual bolt to the top of the bench type mounting, but saw a friend's system, as said, the best idea and method I have ever seen, and followed that pattern when setting up to reload in our new digs.

My 30 year + old loading bench now resides in a shop loft and is still full of holes - patched and un-patched from different presses and loading tools used over the years.

This is not and will never need to be a factor with the new system.

Under the bench, - in as many places as you desire -are mounted receiver tube(s).

Then your tools, presses etc. are mounted to a mount which is then inserted into the under bench receiver.

Because I was starting with a new set up. my receivers were through bolted to the new bench and then the bench top was covered with formica and trimmed out with oak to match the rest of the house.

This mounting system is waaaaaaaaaaaaay strong, and you can build/have built the tool mounting part of the system at any angle or height which fits your need.

AND, this is all done without holes in the bench top, or tools in the way when some other project calls for bench top space.

Works great with my new LNL and doubt a Dillon needs anything stronger.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot