Bolt-action shotguns? - Page 2

Chaz88 · October 17, 2016, 12:32 PM

I have a fairly new Savage 220 rifled bolt action. It is a great deer gun for shotgun only places.

In case you were wandering they also made lever action shot guns. I have a Winchester in 10g, it killed a lot of geese back before steel shot.

darkgael · October 23, 2016, 05:08 PM

Quote:

QUOTE: "...with a little practice, I can cycle the second shot about as quick as a pump gun."

You need to practice more with the pump

Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly. You have probably seen videos of the "Mad minute" of Enfield fame. High power match rifle shooters joke about not using semiautos because they don't want to wait for the action to cycle.

Virginian · October 23, 2016, 06:17 PM

Whenever someone starts waxing nostalgic about a bolt action shotgun (not the new slug guns) I just put it down to a combination of wishful thinking and/or bad memory. The early bolt actions were a way to produce a cheap repeater. I never saw one that handled worth a hoot as a wingshooter's gun. For rabbits and/or squirrels they do okay. I feel the same about single shots (not dedicated purpose built trap guns). They were made to satisfy a need cheaply.
I had a bolt action for my first shotgun. I'm a fairly quick study and it didn't stay long.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · October 23, 2016, 09:32 PM

You can still buy one:

http://www.browning.com/products/fir...ns/a-bolt.html

Not cheap anymore though

bamaranger · October 24, 2016, 01:45 AM

We went through two bolt shotguns when I was a kid, both .410's. My Dad bought a Mossberg bolt with an adjustable choke, the dang thing shot off the first season we hunted it. He replaced the Mossberg with a Savage bolt, that was about the cheapest shotgun I have ever seen. Sharp edges everywhere, detachable mag that was not worth a hoot, a bolt that moved like a crowbar through rocks and a trigger that must have pulled 15 lbs. About two seasons for it, and the sheet metal extractor broke off the bolt face.

Many of my hunting pals as a kid had bolt shotguns.

Lucas McCain · October 24, 2016, 03:05 AM

I have a J.C. Higgins 12 ga. 5 shot tube mag, full choke. 30 inch barrel. In about 1956 ( I was 11 At the time) I bought it used at an auction sale for $30dollars. I used that gun for 7 years, only problem was the forearm cracked, but a hose clamp fixed that. That was money earned form trapping pocket gophers for 2 bits apiece. Couple things you have to remember, a lot of hunters back then went through the depression of 1930, and the 50's weren't so damn great either. We hunted for meat. We didn't waste the limited ammo you had on shooting at flying ducks. The hardware store, we didn't have a gun shop, would sell us shells at 10 cents apiece. We would buy 5 and go hunting for the weekend. I would get over a dozen ducks for the weekend sometimes. The limit then was 8 a day. We sneak up on a slough with ducks and wait till you got 3-4 lined up and ground swat them. When I turned 18, was done with school and got a job and had some money, I up graded to a used L.C.Smith for $50 and could afford a box Gambels Hiawatha shells for $2. I then started shooting the ducks out of the air. It definitely was a lot more fun and gratifying than ground swatting them.
Just a note on the L.C. Smith. When I bought that double barrel a Stevens model 311 cost $70. The reason the L.C. Was so cheap is because the company was gone, no parts were readily available, if something was wrong you would more than likely have to have the part handmade. Therefore a L.C. Smith was the cheapest gun in the rack. Very few people wanted one. I wish I would have known then what I know now. That old gun has never failed me once. When steel shot became necessary, I retired it for ducks, I still use if I go after pheasants.
Times were different back in the old days, and they weren't all that good always. I wouldn't trade them for anything either. We were all in the same boat, and just did the best we could.

CajunBass · October 24, 2016, 06:56 AM

When I was a kid, in the 50's and 60's, bolt shotguns were pretty popular. A lot of "po'folk" had them. They were a step up from a break barrel single shot. Most of them came from Sears-Roebuck or Western Auto.

They might not have been very good for wing-shooting, but those people simply "pot hunted." If it ran, walked, or flew and would fit into, or be cut up, it went into the pot.

When I got my mother to order a new shotgun when I was about 16 years old, I was torn between a Sears Bolt Action and a Sears Double. I went with the double.

dgludwig · October 24, 2016, 03:54 PM

QUOTE: "...with a little practice, I can cycle the second shot about as quick as a pump gun."

QUOTE: "You need to practice more with the pump..."

QUOTE: "Nope... Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly..."

I don't need to walk on water to know that there's no way on God's green earth that any bolt-action comes close to rivaling a pump when it comes to rapidity of subsequent shots. Pump guns come close to autos in trained hands in terms of speed.

You might be faster with one bolt-action than someone else using another bolt-action but you will never approach the speed of a pump with a bolt-action.

darkgael · October 24, 2016, 08:31 PM

Dgl: you are, if course, correct about the speed with wch a pump shotgun can be cycled:
Love those Pat Flanigan videos:
https://youtu.be/BYfqu-llMbU
A bolt gun can be cycled pretty fast - not Flanigan fast but still fast:
https://youtu.be/BRZZcNCTFyQ
Note the time to operate the bolt for one shot ---forget the aiming, just the bolt cycle.

Virginian · October 25, 2016, 07:34 AM

I don't think you can compare the bolt cycling speed of a good bolt action rifle with any bolt action shotgun I have ever seen. Also in the above video they are shooting prone, not offhand.

tangolima · October 25, 2016, 09:43 AM

The shotgun in the video was Winchester with speedpump. It could be even faster if a bump fire shotgun was used.

In the mad minute match, shooters held the bolt knobs with thumb and index finger, and pulled the trigger with middle finger. This technique required a smooth cycling action with correct position of the bolt knob relative to the trigger, such as Lee Enfield cock-on-close. A normal bolt shotgun probably won't work. And you don't want to hold a gun like that when you hunt anyway.

Bolt action is much stronger than pump, and it is an over kill for shot shells. It sacrifice a needed feature, speed, for unneeded performance, strength.

-TL

Virginian · October 25, 2016, 01:18 PM

Bolt action shotguns were not stronger than a pump. Every pump I have seen has the bolt lock into the barrel or forward portion of the receiver in some fashion. The bolt shotguns relied on a squared off handle boss that was welded to the bolt to keep the action closed, and the action/ barrel was even two piece.
Bolt action high power rifles for the most part are very different animals.

darkgael · October 25, 2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

I don't think you can compare the bolt cycling speed of a good bolt action rifle with any bolt action shotgun I have ever seen. Also in the above video they are shooting prone, not offhand.

Understand that I agree that the pump is a faster action. About the shooting prone vs a field position....for extended shooting, one cannot disagree. For one shot, though, a quick manipulation is quite doable. The shooter manipulates the bolt in a manner very much like a straight pull bolt: the first shot is fired, the hand shifts back (maybe) and the top edge of the hand slides under the bolt knobat the same time the shooter rotates the edge of the hand up and back. It is not necessary to grasp the bolt.The fired shell ejects and the hand rotates forward catching the bolt with the thumb, driving it forward and chambering the next shell....a flick up and back.

Hawg · October 25, 2016, 06:57 PM

Be leery of firing a bolt action 12 gauge sold by Sears. Many of them were made by J.C. Higgins and were recalled. The bolt doesn't have locking lugs, the only thing retaining the bolt is the thin metal of the receiver. Some of them have cracked and even sheared off.

O4L · October 25, 2016, 09:42 PM

My dad bought me my first new shotgun in 1975. It was a Mossberg 20 gauge bolt action.

He got it for me to go on my first pheasant hunt.

I'm left eye dominant so I always shot long guns left handed. With a little practice I got to where I could shoot double clays with it quite well, and had no problem getting my share of birds in the field at 14 years old.

Gunplummer · October 26, 2016, 04:24 AM

So what? "The thin metal of the receiver" is just as thick as the barrel. I would venture to say the tubing used is tougher than a shotgun barrel. The only thing I ever had against them was most had the crappy box magazine. Now you were fighting both a rimmed feed and an off balance cartridge. Still use my old .410 anyway.

Virginian · October 26, 2016, 08:09 AM

J.C. Higgins never made one gun. They were rebranded from other manufacturers - Mossberg and Stevens for example.
The problem wasn't the receiver tube being weak, but the bolt handle or other retention system. I know there was one Sears model where the bolt tended to shear off that they recalled.

tangolima · October 26, 2016, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virginian

Bolt action shotguns were not stronger than a pump. Every pump I have seen has the bolt lock into the barrel or forward portion of the receiver in some fashion. The bolt shotguns relied on a squared off handle boss that was welded to the bolt to keep the action closed, and the action/ barrel was even two piece.
Bolt action high power rifles for the most part are very different animals.

I was thinking about the Mauser conversions I saw in a gun shop. I stand corrected. Those guns were single shot BTW.

There is no advantage of bolt action then, other than simplicity and low cost.

-TL

98 220 swift · October 27, 2016, 07:57 AM

Quote:

I was thinking about the Mauser conversions I saw in a gun shop. I stand corrected. Those guns were single shot BTW.

I own one of the mauser conversion guns. I have owned 3 at different times. All where 2 shot repeaters. The work they did to make these 12 ga from 8x57 is amazing. The forward locking lugs serve no purpose any more the recesses in the receiver has been machined out for the larger shotgun shell. The only locking lug is the 3rd "safety lug". It does not get shot much recoil is pretty stout the gun is very light. It does make a good shotgun for squirrel or rabbit because it can be packed easily being so light. If I can get photo bucket to work I will post a few pics.

October 17, 2016, 12:32 PM	#26
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	I have a fairly new Savage 220 rifled bolt action. It is a great deer gun for shotgun only places. In case you were wandering they also made lever action shot guns. I have a Winchester in 10g, it killed a lot of geese back before steel shot. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

October 23, 2016, 06:17 PM	#28
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Whenever someone starts waxing nostalgic about a bolt action shotgun (not the new slug guns) I just put it down to a combination of wishful thinking and/or bad memory. The early bolt actions were a way to produce a cheap repeater. I never saw one that handled worth a hoot as a wingshooter's gun. For rabbits and/or squirrels they do okay. I feel the same about single shots (not dedicated purpose built trap guns). They were made to satisfy a need cheaply. I had a bolt action for my first shotgun. I'm a fairly quick study and it didn't stay long. __________________ What could have happened... did. Last edited by Virginian; October 24, 2016 at 11:28 AM.

October 23, 2016, 09:32 PM	#29
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,183	You can still buy one: http://www.browning.com/products/fir...ns/a-bolt.html Not cheap anymore though __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

October 24, 2016, 01:45 AM	#30
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	bolts We went through two bolt shotguns when I was a kid, both .410's. My Dad bought a Mossberg bolt with an adjustable choke, the dang thing shot off the first season we hunted it. He replaced the Mossberg with a Savage bolt, that was about the cheapest shotgun I have ever seen. Sharp edges everywhere, detachable mag that was not worth a hoot, a bolt that moved like a crowbar through rocks and a trigger that must have pulled 15 lbs. About two seasons for it, and the sheet metal extractor broke off the bolt face. Many of my hunting pals as a kid had bolt shotguns.

October 24, 2016, 03:05 AM	#31
Lucas McCain Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2013 Location: Callaway, MN Posts: 361	I have a J.C. Higgins 12 ga. 5 shot tube mag, full choke. 30 inch barrel. In about 1956 ( I was 11 At the time) I bought it used at an auction sale for $30dollars. I used that gun for 7 years, only problem was the forearm cracked, but a hose clamp fixed that. That was money earned form trapping pocket gophers for 2 bits apiece. Couple things you have to remember, a lot of hunters back then went through the depression of 1930, and the 50's weren't so damn great either. We hunted for meat. We didn't waste the limited ammo you had on shooting at flying ducks. The hardware store, we didn't have a gun shop, would sell us shells at 10 cents apiece. We would buy 5 and go hunting for the weekend. I would get over a dozen ducks for the weekend sometimes. The limit then was 8 a day. We sneak up on a slough with ducks and wait till you got 3-4 lined up and ground swat them. When I turned 18, was done with school and got a job and had some money, I up graded to a used L.C.Smith for $50 and could afford a box Gambels Hiawatha shells for $2. I then started shooting the ducks out of the air. It definitely was a lot more fun and gratifying than ground swatting them. Just a note on the L.C. Smith. When I bought that double barrel a Stevens model 311 cost $70. The reason the L.C. Was so cheap is because the company was gone, no parts were readily available, if something was wrong you would more than likely have to have the part handmade. Therefore a L.C. Smith was the cheapest gun in the rack. Very few people wanted one. I wish I would have known then what I know now. That old gun has never failed me once. When steel shot became necessary, I retired it for ducks, I still use if I go after pheasants. Times were different back in the old days, and they weren't all that good always. I wouldn't trade them for anything either. We were all in the same boat, and just did the best we could. __________________ If you have time to do it twice, then you have time to do it once right and put your name on it

October 24, 2016, 06:56 AM	#32
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	When I was a kid, in the 50's and 60's, bolt shotguns were pretty popular. A lot of "po'folk" had them. They were a step up from a break barrel single shot. Most of them came from Sears-Roebuck or Western Auto. They might not have been very good for wing-shooting, but those people simply "pot hunted." If it ran, walked, or flew and would fit into, or be cut up, it went into the pot. When I got my mother to order a new shotgun when I was about 16 years old, I was torn between a Sears Bolt Action and a Sears Double. I went with the double. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

October 24, 2016, 03:54 PM	#33
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	QUOTE: "...with a little practice, I can cycle the second shot about as quick as a pump gun." QUOTE: "You need to practice more with the pump..." QUOTE: "Nope... Oh, ye of little faith. Properly used a bolt gun can be cycled very rapidly..." I don't need to walk on water to know that there's no way on God's green earth that any bolt-action comes close to rivaling a pump when it comes to rapidity of subsequent shots. Pump guns come close to autos in trained hands in terms of speed. You might be faster with one bolt-action than someone else using another bolt-action but you will never approach the speed of a pump with a bolt-action. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

October 24, 2016, 08:31 PM	#34
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Cycle Dgl: you are, if course, correct about the speed with wch a pump shotgun can be cycled: Love those Pat Flanigan videos: https://youtu.be/BYfqu-llMbU A bolt gun can be cycled pretty fast - not Flanigan fast but still fast: https://youtu.be/BRZZcNCTFyQ Note the time to operate the bolt for one shot ---forget the aiming, just the bolt cycle. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

October 25, 2016, 07:34 AM	#35
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	I don't think you can compare the bolt cycling speed of a good bolt action rifle with any bolt action shotgun I have ever seen. Also in the above video they are shooting prone, not offhand. __________________ What could have happened... did.

October 25, 2016, 09:43 AM	#36
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,824	The shotgun in the video was Winchester with speedpump. It could be even faster if a bump fire shotgun was used. In the mad minute match, shooters held the bolt knobs with thumb and index finger, and pulled the trigger with middle finger. This technique required a smooth cycling action with correct position of the bolt knob relative to the trigger, such as Lee Enfield cock-on-close. A normal bolt shotgun probably won't work. And you don't want to hold a gun like that when you hunt anyway. Bolt action is much stronger than pump, and it is an over kill for shot shells. It sacrifice a needed feature, speed, for unneeded performance, strength. -TL

October 25, 2016, 01:18 PM	#37
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Bolt action shotguns were not stronger than a pump. Every pump I have seen has the bolt lock into the barrel or forward portion of the receiver in some fashion. The bolt shotguns relied on a squared off handle boss that was welded to the bolt to keep the action closed, and the action/ barrel was even two piece. Bolt action high power rifles for the most part are very different animals. __________________ What could have happened... did.

October 25, 2016, 06:57 PM	#39
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Be leery of firing a bolt action 12 gauge sold by Sears. Many of them were made by J.C. Higgins and were recalled. The bolt doesn't have locking lugs, the only thing retaining the bolt is the thin metal of the receiver. Some of them have cracked and even sheared off.

October 25, 2016, 09:42 PM	#40
O4L Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2015 Posts: 646	My dad bought me my first new shotgun in 1975. It was a Mossberg 20 gauge bolt action. He got it for me to go on my first pheasant hunt. I'm left eye dominant so I always shot long guns left handed. With a little practice I got to where I could shoot double clays with it quite well, and had no problem getting my share of birds in the field at 14 years old.

October 26, 2016, 04:24 AM	#41
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	So what? "The thin metal of the receiver" is just as thick as the barrel. I would venture to say the tubing used is tougher than a shotgun barrel. The only thing I ever had against them was most had the crappy box magazine. Now you were fighting both a rimmed feed and an off balance cartridge. Still use my old .410 anyway.

October 26, 2016, 08:09 AM	#42
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	J.C. Higgins never made one gun. They were rebranded from other manufacturers - Mossberg and Stevens for example. The problem wasn't the receiver tube being weak, but the bolt handle or other retention system. I know there was one Sears model where the bolt tended to shear off that they recalled. __________________ What could have happened... did.