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September 13, 2012, 09:23 PM | #1 | |
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Doing this could get you jail time.
Don't do this!
SOURCE Quote:
This pharmacist could end up in jail, lose his license, and be denied all further firearms ownership. Unless the suspect is running away firing over his shoulder at you never, never, never shoot.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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September 13, 2012, 09:25 PM | #2 |
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You'd think a smart guy like a Pharmacist would know his state laws...
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September 13, 2012, 09:27 PM | #3 |
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Be specific -in what states can you pursue for a proper crime?
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September 13, 2012, 09:54 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
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September 13, 2012, 10:11 PM | #5 |
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In Texas the law says you can shoot to stop a criminal from fleeing the scene of his crime, but personally I wouldnt take a chance on shooting a guy in the back while hes running away. I would not put it past our system for a minute to put you away for that reguardless what the law says.
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September 13, 2012, 10:15 PM | #6 |
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Shooting a man in the back is hard to defend. Always has, always will be.
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September 13, 2012, 11:17 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468327
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September 13, 2012, 11:30 PM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
It should have read: Quote:
"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind." |
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September 13, 2012, 11:34 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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September 13, 2012, 11:39 PM | #10 |
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The Texas law in question goes back to the days of horse thievery. Several years ago, a guy shot a tow truck driver who was repossessing his car in the middle of the night. He shot at the guy with a scoped rifle.
The keys to the shooting were that he was taking property and it was night time. Texas has a whole bunch of laws that are defined by night or day -- like burglary laws. In Killing of Repo Man, Law Shields the Killer In the stated case, here, the guy did not get anything other than the poo scared out of him. Once a BG is no longer a threat and is retreating you are taking your life, liberty, and fortune in your hands if you shoot him. The rule of thumb is "When in doubt, don't."
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
September 14, 2012, 12:10 AM | #11 | ||
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Quote:
TX law specifically states that the person must "reasonably believe the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the" citizen of the property." Since a repo man does have a claim of right to dispossess the person, he can not be legally shot unless he "accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud". Sounds like the prosecutor wasn't really on the ball...either that or he figured it wouldn't be possible to get an indictment in his area. Quote:
Here's some additional information on shooting to protect/recover property in TX. http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...9&postcount=18 http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...4&postcount=26
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Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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September 14, 2012, 12:52 AM | #12 |
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shooting in Winslow Township NJ
What exit?
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September 14, 2012, 04:12 AM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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September 14, 2012, 08:18 AM | #14 | |
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Defense of Property
These are the Texas Penal Code Provsions on the use of force in protecting property. I've left out the parts that have nothing to do with someone fleeing.
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I'm not going to shoot someone running away with my TV at night. I'll just hope they trip on some of the tools scattered in the front yard and get hurt. It would have to be something that represented a very large portion of my material or emotional life before I shot someone like that. I can't even imagine what those things would be. |
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September 14, 2012, 09:25 AM | #15 |
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I think people are looking at the wrong subset of statutes.
IE, I don't see this as a "When can you shoot to stop somebody who is stealing your property?" question. I see this more as a "When can you shoot to stop an armed, violent, fleeing felon who poses potential danger to the community?" question. The answers to those two questions are often very different. |
September 14, 2012, 09:54 AM | #16 |
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A few years ago, a fellow shot at a burglar fleeing his place of business. He missed and the shot went through a wall and killed a little girl across the street. It was very sad as I knew both the shooter and the girl's family. The shooter received a fairly stiff prison sentence.
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September 14, 2012, 10:07 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
Fleeing, without anything that belongs to you and having not actually harmed anyone, generally speaking shooting at them is a no-no. Being that the guy was a scumbag anyways, I hope the pharmacist gets cut some slack but I also hope he learns a valuable lesson as a result
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September 14, 2012, 10:20 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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September 14, 2012, 11:48 AM | #19 |
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I actually have no problem with shooting a fleeing violent armed perpetrator. He is not just fleeing from his current crime, he is fleeing to his next crime where his victim(s) might not fare as well.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
September 14, 2012, 12:03 PM | #20 |
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Does "heat of the moment" apply?
Does "heat of the moment" apply?
I doubt if it would for the pharmacist. Look at the recent video of the older man in that Florida Internet Cafe,,, He started firing and kept firing after the bad guy(s) turned and fled. There was never a pause in the action,,, He started firing when they were facing him,,, And kept on firing until they were out of the door. I as a reasonable person see nothing wrong with that,,, He was acting in the heat of the moment. People under attack shouldn't be expected to walk such a fine line,,, As knowing the exact second that they should stop firing. Now the pharmacist scenario is a different thing,,, He was past the heat of the moment,,, He should not have fired. Kind of like the pharmacist in Oklahoma,,, The immediate threat had passed yet he fired again,,, In one way it pained me to see him convicted of 1st degree murder,,, But the initial threat was over and he clearly was not in harms way any more. My take on this might be a bit provincial,,, But if I am pulling my gun on an armed assailant,,, I'm going to keep shooting until he's down or absolutely fleeing. If he has simply turned his back to me for a moment,,, How am I to know if he's disengaging or seeking cover to fire at me from? Judging when to stop firing seems as difficult as when to start firing. Aarond .
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September 14, 2012, 05:36 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
In the Jerome Ersland case, this did come up specificially and the DA discussed the matter and noted that Ersland, in his shooting pursuit of the fleeing armed robber (who stole nothing and who never fired a shot) was n his rights to do so. The robber was an obvious danger to the public. Of course, then getting a gun and pumping several rounds into the unconscious robber on the floor is where Ersland screwed up, but until that time, according to the DA, the video indicated nothing illegal on the part of Ersland. From the story in the OP, I have a feeling that the pharmacist was not protecting the public. He was chasing and shooting the robber out of "contempt of victim" which would be a lot like "contempt of cop" where cops go overboard for transgressions against them.
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September 16, 2012, 01:13 PM | #22 | |
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@Jimpeel,
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I don't know about Colorado law, but in Texas if someone is running away you can't shoot him because he is running towards his next crime. |
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September 16, 2012, 01:35 PM | #23 | |
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September 16, 2012, 02:11 PM | #24 |
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I have read laws for some states that would allow this, but generally the shooter has to have witnessed the violent crime, and has to believe the perpetrator will pose an immediate threat to others if allowed to escape.
I don't have time right now to do a look-up, but Frank Ettin may be able to elaborate. |
September 16, 2012, 06:07 PM | #25 |
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Judge and jury
It is presumptive, to say the least, that you have the right and implied responsiblity to shoot an alleged criminal on the way to who knows where. This is similar to the thinking of Zimmerman that shot Martin in Florida. Zimmerman assumed that Martin had to be a criminal, and in the end, an innocent kid was capped. Guns don't endow any of us with some superior god like power to make those judgements.
Misuse of firearms will always feed the anitgun crowd. Even percieved misuse will be twisted and used to the disadvantage of gun owners. |
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