Looking for real-world experience using lead free bullets

Doyle · August 13, 2018, 01:13 PM

I just ordered my first box of lead-free bullets to try (Hornady Superformance GMX). My question for those who have used them relates to grouping. I have read that gilding metal bullets group best when they ride on lands that have been fouled only by gilding metal. That is, if you shoot them through a barrel that has been shooting regular bullets your groups will start out pretty bad and only tighten up after half dozen or so gilding metal bullets have built up a new layer of fouling.

Therefore, it is best to start shooting lead-free bullets on a freshly cleaned barrel and then stick with those rather than go back and forth.

Does anyone have any experience which would either corroborate or refute those claims.

TXAZ · August 13, 2018, 01:23 PM

A fair number of .50 BMG guys shoot bore riders and may be able to help you at fcsa.org

Picher · August 15, 2018, 01:20 PM

I've been using GMX bullets in several rifles/calibers and haven't found any problems. Some rifles like them, some aren't crazy about them, but shoot fairly well in all I've tried.

Until last deer season, they've opened well on Maine deer, but one shot last season in the lungs by my son with a 30-06 at about 50 yards didn't open well, making tracking of a small buck a bit difficult, despite good tracking conditions in dry leaves.

The attached bullet photo shows a .270, 130 grain GMX bullet that killed a running buck from a tree stand that was running dead away at 40 yards. It traveled through the back and into the neck area, close to 30 inches.

Doyle · August 15, 2018, 03:10 PM

Thanks Picher. Did you happen to notice any group size difference between shooting them on a barrel fouled only by gilding metal vs a barrel fouled by ordinary ammo?

jmr40 · August 15, 2018, 06:14 PM

I've put about 100-150 Barnes 30 caliber copper bullets down range. About 1/2 130's and half 150's. I've never heard of this concept so I've not experimented to say for sure. But they tend to shoot very well in some rifles, only mediocre in others. In the rifles that like them I don't see anything improving accuracy.

I don't see the logic in worrying about it. The jacket on conventional bullets is the same metal as the solid copper bullets.

Doyle · August 15, 2018, 07:57 PM

Thanks JMR40. Here is one author who has put forth that idea: https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/h...e-ammo-tested/

How do those 130's in .30 cal perform for you? My box of Superformance 150s came in today. If those don't work well, I may pick up some TTSX 130s and load some. I've seen references to really fast velocities with that weight. I have zero intention of shooting an animal beyond about 400 yds, but the range between about 275 and 400 is where my other deer rifle falls too short and that is the ideal for a 130gr bullet starting out at 3100+fps.

taylorce1 · August 16, 2018, 12:13 AM

My daughter started killing deer with the 55 grain TSX bullet. I was impressed with how well they hammered deer. My daughter and I are shooting the 130 grain TTSX in the .300 Savage, we haven't killed anything yet with them but they shoot well. I'll probably try some in the .308 and .30-06 as well.

Picher · August 16, 2018, 04:17 AM

No difference between the gilding metal TSX and regular gilding metal in my rifles, but Barnes copper bullets fouled terribly in my rifles, so I stopped using them.

taylorce1 · August 16, 2018, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picher

but Barnes copper bullets fouled terribly in my rifles, so I stopped using them.

That was a common problem with the Original Barnes Copper bullets, when they started cutting three grooves into the bullet it seemed to cure the fouling problems most hunters and shooters had.

Don Fischer · August 16, 2018, 11:07 AM

Jacket material with lead core bullet's is gilding metal. The Barnes bullet's, old cup and core and present monolithic bullet's are made of copper. As I understood it Barnes did have a problem with copper fouling in their monolithic bullet's and that was where the rings around the bullet's came in. Haven't read anything about fouling with bullet's made of gilding metal.

Picher · August 16, 2018, 01:49 PM

My Barnes bullets that fouled the bore didn't have rings, and didn't try the ones that had them.

Paul B. · August 16, 2018, 05:47 PM

I've shot the Barnes TSX bullets in a .257 Roberts (100 gr.), 7x57 (120 and 140 gr.), .280 Remington (same bullets as in the 7x57) and .35 Whelen. (225 gr.).

I've had no problem with copper fouling. The results with the .257, 7x57 and .280 are good velocity but accuracy not what I'm looking for. More work needed there. On the other hand, the .35 Whelen has been a tack driver so far with groups usually about .50" and have never had one larger than .80".
Gamewise, shot shots with six dead elk. I'll get those other rifles to shooting well later on when it's not quite so hot and the summer rains quit.
Paul B.

Husqvarna · August 26, 2018, 03:14 AM

Shot a few boxes NORMA naturalis thru one of my rifles because I won a driven hunt in Germany a few years back and they are leadfree

No problem with accuracy but I Kinda dont like to punch thru animals

Got some pretty long deadruns (english words for when a animal is hit and runs of to die???)

Mobuck · August 26, 2018, 06:37 AM

I used some Nosler "E-tips" on deer last year out of 25/06. I was looking for a 100 grain bullet than wouldn't "blow up" occasionally. The E-tips didn't blow up for sure and one penetrated over 24" of deer before exiting on a raking quartering away hit at fairly close range.
If you use that type bullet, keep the weight down and the velocity up.

August 13, 2018, 01:13 PM	#1
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Looking for real-world experience using lead free bullets I just ordered my first box of lead-free bullets to try (Hornady Superformance GMX). My question for those who have used them relates to grouping. I have read that gilding metal bullets group best when they ride on lands that have been fouled only by gilding metal. That is, if you shoot them through a barrel that has been shooting regular bullets your groups will start out pretty bad and only tighten up after half dozen or so gilding metal bullets have built up a new layer of fouling. Therefore, it is best to start shooting lead-free bullets on a freshly cleaned barrel and then stick with those rather than go back and forth. Does anyone have any experience which would either corroborate or refute those claims.

August 13, 2018, 01:23 PM	#2
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	A fair number of .50 BMG guys shoot bore riders and may be able to help you at fcsa.org __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

August 15, 2018, 06:14 PM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I've put about 100-150 Barnes 30 caliber copper bullets down range. About 1/2 130's and half 150's. I've never heard of this concept so I've not experimented to say for sure. But they tend to shoot very well in some rifles, only mediocre in others. In the rifles that like them I don't see anything improving accuracy. I don't see the logic in worrying about it. The jacket on conventional bullets is the same metal as the solid copper bullets. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

August 16, 2018, 12:13 AM	#7
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	My daughter started killing deer with the 55 grain TSX bullet. I was impressed with how well they hammered deer. My daughter and I are shooting the 130 grain TTSX in the .300 Savage, we haven't killed anything yet with them but they shoot well. I'll probably try some in the .308 and .30-06 as well. __________________ NRA Life Member

August 16, 2018, 05:47 PM	#12
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I've shot the Barnes TSX bullets in a .257 Roberts (100 gr.), 7x57 (120 and 140 gr.), .280 Remington (same bullets as in the 7x57) and .35 Whelen. (225 gr.). I've had no problem with copper fouling. The results with the .257, 7x57 and .280 are good velocity but accuracy not what I'm looking for. More work needed there. On the other hand, the .35 Whelen has been a tack driver so far with groups usually about .50" and have never had one larger than .80". Gamewise, shot shots with six dead elk. I'll get those other rifles to shooting well later on when it's not quite so hot and the summer rains quit. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 15, 2018, 03:10 PM	#4
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Thanks Picher. Did you happen to notice any group size difference between shooting them on a barrel fouled only by gilding metal vs a barrel fouled by ordinary ammo?

August 15, 2018, 07:57 PM	#6
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Thanks JMR40. Here is one author who has put forth that idea: https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/h...e-ammo-tested/ How do those 130's in .30 cal perform for you? My box of Superformance 150s came in today. If those don't work well, I may pick up some TTSX 130s and load some. I've seen references to really fast velocities with that weight. I have zero intention of shooting an animal beyond about 400 yds, but the range between about 275 and 400 is where my other deer rifle falls too short and that is the ideal for a 130gr bullet starting out at 3100+fps.

August 16, 2018, 04:17 AM	#8
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	No difference between the gilding metal TSX and regular gilding metal in my rifles, but Barnes copper bullets fouled terribly in my rifles, so I stopped using them.

August 16, 2018, 11:07 AM	#10
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Jacket material with lead core bullet's is gilding metal. The Barnes bullet's, old cup and core and present monolithic bullet's are made of copper. As I understood it Barnes did have a problem with copper fouling in their monolithic bullet's and that was where the rings around the bullet's came in. Haven't read anything about fouling with bullet's made of gilding metal.

August 16, 2018, 01:49 PM	#11
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	My Barnes bullets that fouled the bore didn't have rings, and didn't try the ones that had them.

August 26, 2018, 03:14 AM	#13
Husqvarna Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,000	Shot a few boxes NORMA naturalis thru one of my rifles because I won a driven hunt in Germany a few years back and they are leadfree No problem with accuracy but I Kinda dont like to punch thru animals Got some pretty long deadruns (english words for when a animal is hit and runs of to die???)

August 26, 2018, 06:37 AM	#14
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I used some Nosler "E-tips" on deer last year out of 25/06. I was looking for a 100 grain bullet than wouldn't "blow up" occasionally. The E-tips didn't blow up for sure and one penetrated over 24" of deer before exiting on a raking quartering away hit at fairly close range. If you use that type bullet, keep the weight down and the velocity up.