Getting a 9mm soon....

Nathan · August 24, 2015, 07:20 PM

So, what kind of low recoil load shoul I build for my wife and kids?

WVMountaineer · August 24, 2015, 08:08 PM

3.9 grains of Bullseye with 125 grain lead bullets works real well for me. God Bless

Sevens · August 24, 2015, 08:09 PM

It has been my experience that there is not a lot of wiggle room when it comes to recoil in a 9mm load because there isn't a lot of range to work with -- lowering the power with the goal of cutting recoil slams quickly in to feeding/ejecting failures in the platform.

With that said, two things come to mind to give you a start...

Many find that heavy for caliber 147gr slugs simply "feel" nicer, easier and less snappy than do average weight 115-124gr. Also, it is fact that a lead slug goes down a bore easier than does a jacketed or plated slug, so (theoretically) a cast lead 147gr slug over a small charge of fast burning powder "should" be on the lighter end of a small spectrum.

Also, it's been my experience that one of the most intimidating factors of 9mm to new shooters is the high pressure muzzle blast. To that end, outdoor shooting is far more enjoyable with a 9mm than indoor shooting that traps a new shooter with all the muzzle blast.

Good luck!

Real Gun · August 26, 2015, 09:46 AM

I use 5.2 gr Power Pistol and 124 gr FMJ (old supply). If recoil is an issue with something as basic as 9mm, perhaps fundamentals need to be reviewed with the shooters. Mohammed is supposed to go to the mountain with this caliber. Do they have 22s to use for practice of the basics?

Note that 9mm is typically supersonic, so the sonic boom along with the pressure level is part of that characteristic crack you find that makes you want to move away from someone shooting 9mm. Choose a load that is subsonic, and everyone will be more comfortable, including with the recoil issue.

Nick_C_S · August 26, 2015, 02:37 PM

Size matters.

I'm surprised nobody has asked you what gun you plan on getting. Because a full sized 9mm is generally a manageable piece - even for those slight of stature. Compacts and sub-compacts are a different story.

Back to ammo: Recoil is a personal thing.

Quote:

Many find that heavy for caliber 147gr slugs simply "feel" nicer, easier and less snappy

This is one of the rare times when Sevens and I part ways. Although, I agree that 147's are less snappy, and have more of a "push" over ever-so-slightly more time; I find their overall recoil to be more intense. To me, 115's, although "snappier," are more tame feeling overall.

But as Sevens also mentioned ("Many find. . ."), felt recoil is a personal thing.

All that said, I carry my 9mm with 124gn bullets (Speer GDHP +p), so I practice with 124 grainers. Practiced with it out at the range just this morning, as a matter of fact

.

MEATSAW · August 26, 2015, 02:45 PM

5.1 gr of Accurate #5 with a coated cast 124gr bullet is just right.

Sevens · August 26, 2015, 03:31 PM

Haha, I also find it interesting and intriguing when Nick and I disagree, because it is indeed a very rare event!

I will add just for clarity that 147's versus 115/124 is what I hear from friends -- close buddies and casual aquaintences. Alas, I have -zero- hands-on experience myself in using 147gr slugs in 9mm. For me... part of the draw of 9mm is economy and I make my component bullet purchases in serious volume, so I long ago settled on 124gr plated and I have no desire whatsoever to deviate from it.

Nick_C_S · August 26, 2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

I long ago settled on 124gr plated and I have no desire whatsoever to deviate from it.

Nor is there any reason to. Good choice.

Nathan · August 27, 2015, 08:54 AM

They all have time behind the 22. Still have it for skill building....22 does not recoil, so getting over the recoil concer will be hard by 22 only.

My hope is to lad some 115 or 124 plated at just above 380 level of recoil.

We bought an XDS 9. The extended mag grip, small grip and texture make it ideal for them.

Real Gun · August 27, 2015, 03:56 PM

It will have to be a load powerful enough to reliably cycle the gun with a given set of springs.

Nick_C_S · August 27, 2015, 04:24 PM

XDS 9. Good choice.

Nathan, you're going to have to just load by trial and error to find a load recipe that is tame, yet still able to cycle the action. If it were me, I would go with a 115gn plated or jacketed bullet and a fast powder. From my inventory of powder, I would (and do) use AA#2; but any fast powder (Bullseye, W231/HP-38, Nitro 100, VV N310, TiteGroup, etc.) would do just fine.

But before you do that - assuming it's a new piece - I recommend taking it out to the range and putting about 300 or so rounds of regular strength ammo through it, to get it broke in. IMO, in order to do a good work up (or work "down"?) of a light load, you need your gun to be broke in.

Shotgun Slim · August 27, 2015, 05:23 PM

I am in the camp that goes with the heavy for caliber bullet for a more pleasant recoil sensation. Not trying to sell a bill of goods: there is not "less" recoil necessarily,just more of a straight back push with less muzzle snap. A 147 can be loaded to be very pleasant and still run the gun. That being said I know that a 124 over 4.0 grains of Titegroup is a good one that sorta splits the difference. Also Meatsaw's load a few posts back is a good one. Have fun experimenting and be safe.

Mike38 · August 27, 2015, 05:28 PM

For light target loads I use 3.7 grains of Titegroup under a 122 grain lead truncated cone bullet.

skizzums · August 27, 2015, 08:31 PM

my plink load is an xtreme plated 125gr HP with 4.0gr HP38. accurate, clean and affordable. I run lots of lead cast as well, generally with HP38, my most accurate being the lee 358-125 sized down to 357. Run with 3.8gr HP38 powdercoated

depends on your gun what you'll shoot the best, my 9mm rifle like the 147gr with HS6, and my most accurate pistol load is a 90gr XTP also with a heavy dose of HS6. Titegroup is about perfect for standard weight 115-125gr jacketed 9mm BTW

vaalpens · August 27, 2015, 10:00 PM

I don't have a very light recoil plinking load, but when I was working up loads I noted some loads with very soft recoil and an ejection pattern inside of 3ft. They has no problem cycling my 9mm SIG SP2022. These soft loads were 124gr plated bullets loaded with 3.8gr 700-x and 4.5gr Unique.

Nick_C_S · August 27, 2015, 10:42 PM

Quote:

A 147 can be loaded to be very pleasant and still run the gun.

I forgot about that: heavy bullets tend to cycle actions better under light load conditions. Good point.

What can I say, I'm mostly a revolver guy

Nathan · August 28, 2015, 08:41 AM

I agree that under 115's and running the gun could be questionable.

I'm thinking 124 plated or coated with titegroup, for now.

I have aa#5, titegroup, long shot, SR4756 and maybe wsf.

CCI or WSP primers.

I'll probably try some acme bullets.

MarkGlazer · August 29, 2015, 02:36 PM

Titegroup for a light recoil, I think not. Titegroup will give you quite the opposite effect. I found myself in this scenario when I first began loading. The gunshops' only employee who had "loading experience" suggested that it was a good powder to "start" with. That was two plus years ago and I've learned a great deal about reading burn rate charts and balancing them against powder weight and bullets. Since then I've been through Ramshot Silhouette (lesser recoil than Titegroup) and now Longshot, which is my preferred and only 9mm powder [courtesy of Machinegun Tony].

Since you are working on loads for your wife and kids, I would study the burn rate charts, converse against data and bullet type and weight and test your powders with the understanding that Titegroup is the fastest burning powder in your inventory.

(PS - I will wager that your wife selects either AA#5 or Longshot)

Good luck. Be safe.

Nathan · August 29, 2015, 02:43 PM

Mark, you are saying faster burning powders in general give you more recoil sensation? So, Bullseye or AA#2 would recoil more in the same round than HS-6 something slower?

Mike38 · August 29, 2015, 02:53 PM

Mark, I'm curious why so many Conventional Pistol (Bullseye) shooters use and suggest powders like Bullseye and Titegroup, etc. for light loads? I know when I started shooting Bullseye competition that's what was suggested to me.

MarkGlazer · August 29, 2015, 03:18 PM

Guys, I can only tell you my personal experience. The burn rate chart bears this out. The faster the powder the more recoil you can get out of a gun. The weight of the gun is also something to be taken into consideration as well, plus the grains of powder plus the bullet type and weight. But overall, the faster the powder, the higher the likelihood of a strong recoil.

I started with Titegroup and my wife did not like the recoil, neither did I. She has a CZ 75 P01. At the time I had a CZ 85, now a Canik Stingray. I have 2 lbs left and love working with it in my Rossi .357 lever rifle. I also use it in a .357 magnum pistol. Even in the magnum, Titegroup has a good bounce. I shifted to a lesser burn rate powder (Silhoutte) and our recoil dampened. I shifted down into Longshot and we both found that our accuracy increased and the recoil was even less.

I am not an expert, just a consumer with experience. The proof in the test will be what Nathans' wife has to say when she tests rounds with each powder. I would suggest, to be fair, that you load mid-point for each powder, same bullet weight.

Send me a PM and let me know how things turn out.

Good luck. Be safe.

Sharkbite · August 29, 2015, 03:54 PM

Without velocity data to go along with the powder used the "lower recoil from slower powders" statement is suspect.

I would imagine the lower recoil was a result of lower velocities.

Shotgun Slim · August 29, 2015, 04:25 PM

Nathan you can work with what you have. Take the 124s and start your Titegroup and #5 at slightly below the starting loads you will see in your manuals. Load maybe ten at a time and also load progressively lighter by a tenth of a grain or two,ten at a time,until you get down to where the load won't run the gun.Then you know to load a bit heavier than the failing load. Once you have done that with both powders then just load several of each in order in the same magazine and shoot for feel. Do that with all the powders you care to try and let the best load for what you want to do show itself.

Nick_C_S · August 29, 2015, 05:36 PM

Quote:

faster burning powders in general give you more recoil sensation?

No they don't.

In general, faster propellants yield less recoil because they are no longer "thrusting" as hard as a slower propellant when the bullet leaves the barrel.

5whiskey · August 29, 2015, 06:48 PM

3.0 grains of 700x hi-score under a 125 grain slug is VERY tame in 3.6 barrel Baby Desert Eagle. My 11 year old girl can shoot it very well now, and she has been shooting it for a little over a year now. It cycles the action well also. I like 700x for 9mm because a 14 ounce can is way cheaper than a pound of other powders, you can reload at least 2k rounds of 9mm with it, and it actually is a pretty accurate powder. It's a fast powder, which likely contributes to it being a little less snappy.

It is dirty though. Between shooting lead and getting lube gum buildup after a few hundred rounds this stuff adds a lot of soot to it as well. It's dirty, but at least it's easy to clean.

August 24, 2015, 07:20 PM	#1
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	Getting a 9mm soon.... So, what kind of low recoil load shoul I build for my wife and kids?

August 24, 2015, 08:09 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	It has been my experience that there is not a lot of wiggle room when it comes to recoil in a 9mm load because there isn't a lot of range to work with -- lowering the power with the goal of cutting recoil slams quickly in to feeding/ejecting failures in the platform. With that said, two things come to mind to give you a start... Many find that heavy for caliber 147gr slugs simply "feel" nicer, easier and less snappy than do average weight 115-124gr. Also, it is fact that a lead slug goes down a bore easier than does a jacketed or plated slug, so (theoretically) a cast lead 147gr slug over a small charge of fast burning powder "should" be on the lighter end of a small spectrum. Also, it's been my experience that one of the most intimidating factors of 9mm to new shooters is the high pressure muzzle blast. To that end, outdoor shooting is far more enjoyable with a 9mm than indoor shooting that traps a new shooter with all the muzzle blast. Good luck! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 26, 2015, 02:45 PM	#6
MEATSAW Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Location: Burnet, TX Posts: 727	5.1 gr of Accurate #5 with a coated cast 124gr bullet is just right. __________________ Veteran OEF (2002) and OIF1 (2003) - US Army Member of the Burnet Gun Fighters, Inc. and of course the NRA Oregon State University alum -- Go Beavs!

August 26, 2015, 03:31 PM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Haha, I also find it interesting and intriguing when Nick and I disagree, because it is indeed a very rare event! I will add just for clarity that 147's versus 115/124 is what I hear from friends -- close buddies and casual aquaintences. Alas, I have -zero- hands-on experience myself in using 147gr slugs in 9mm. For me... part of the draw of 9mm is economy and I make my component bullet purchases in serious volume, so I long ago settled on 124gr plated and I have no desire whatsoever to deviate from it. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 27, 2015, 04:24 PM	#11
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	XDS 9. Good choice. Nathan, you're going to have to just load by trial and error to find a load recipe that is tame, yet still able to cycle the action. If it were me, I would go with a 115gn plated or jacketed bullet and a fast powder. From my inventory of powder, I would (and do) use AA#2; but any fast powder (Bullseye, W231/HP-38, Nitro 100, VV N310, TiteGroup, etc.) would do just fine. But before you do that - assuming it's a new piece - I recommend taking it out to the range and putting about 300 or so rounds of regular strength ammo through it, to get it broke in. IMO, in order to do a good work up (or work "down"?) of a light load, you need your gun to be broke in. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

August 24, 2015, 08:08 PM	#2
WVMountaineer Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2015 Posts: 330	3.9 grains of Bullseye with 125 grain lead bullets works real well for me. God Bless

August 26, 2015, 09:46 AM	#4
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	I use 5.2 gr Power Pistol and 124 gr FMJ (old supply). If recoil is an issue with something as basic as 9mm, perhaps fundamentals need to be reviewed with the shooters. Mohammed is supposed to go to the mountain with this caliber. Do they have 22s to use for practice of the basics? Note that 9mm is typically supersonic, so the sonic boom along with the pressure level is part of that characteristic crack you find that makes you want to move away from someone shooting 9mm. Choose a load that is subsonic, and everyone will be more comfortable, including with the recoil issue.

August 27, 2015, 08:54 AM	#9
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	They all have time behind the 22. Still have it for skill building....22 does not recoil, so getting over the recoil concer will be hard by 22 only. My hope is to lad some 115 or 124 plated at just above 380 level of recoil. We bought an XDS 9. The extended mag grip, small grip and texture make it ideal for them.

August 27, 2015, 03:56 PM	#10
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	It will have to be a load powerful enough to reliably cycle the gun with a given set of springs.

August 27, 2015, 05:23 PM	#12
Shotgun Slim Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Location: Va Posts: 291	I am in the camp that goes with the heavy for caliber bullet for a more pleasant recoil sensation. Not trying to sell a bill of goods: there is not "less" recoil necessarily,just more of a straight back push with less muzzle snap. A 147 can be loaded to be very pleasant and still run the gun. That being said I know that a 124 over 4.0 grains of Titegroup is a good one that sorta splits the difference. Also Meatsaw's load a few posts back is a good one. Have fun experimenting and be safe.

August 27, 2015, 05:28 PM	#13
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	For light target loads I use 3.7 grains of Titegroup under a 122 grain lead truncated cone bullet.

August 27, 2015, 08:31 PM	#14
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	my plink load is an xtreme plated 125gr HP with 4.0gr HP38. accurate, clean and affordable. I run lots of lead cast as well, generally with HP38, my most accurate being the lee 358-125 sized down to 357. Run with 3.8gr HP38 powdercoated depends on your gun what you'll shoot the best, my 9mm rifle like the 147gr with HS6, and my most accurate pistol load is a 90gr XTP also with a heavy dose of HS6. Titegroup is about perfect for standard weight 115-125gr jacketed 9mm BTW __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

August 27, 2015, 10:00 PM	#15
vaalpens Member Join Date: March 5, 2015 Posts: 44	I don't have a very light recoil plinking load, but when I was working up loads I noted some loads with very soft recoil and an ejection pattern inside of 3ft. They has no problem cycling my 9mm SIG SP2022. These soft loads were 124gr plated bullets loaded with 3.8gr 700-x and 4.5gr Unique.

August 28, 2015, 08:41 AM	#17
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	I agree that under 115's and running the gun could be questionable. I'm thinking 124 plated or coated with titegroup, for now. I have aa#5, titegroup, long shot, SR4756 and maybe wsf. CCI or WSP primers. I'll probably try some acme bullets.

August 29, 2015, 02:36 PM	#18
MarkGlazer Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 329	Titegroup for a light recoil, I think not. Titegroup will give you quite the opposite effect. I found myself in this scenario when I first began loading. The gunshops' only employee who had "loading experience" suggested that it was a good powder to "start" with. That was two plus years ago and I've learned a great deal about reading burn rate charts and balancing them against powder weight and bullets. Since then I've been through Ramshot Silhouette (lesser recoil than Titegroup) and now Longshot, which is my preferred and only 9mm powder [courtesy of Machinegun Tony]. Since you are working on loads for your wife and kids, I would study the burn rate charts, converse against data and bullet type and weight and test your powders with the understanding that Titegroup is the fastest burning powder in your inventory. (PS - I will wager that your wife selects either AA#5 or Longshot) Good luck. Be safe. __________________ non ministrari sed ministrare

August 29, 2015, 02:43 PM	#19
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	Mark, you are saying faster burning powders in general give you more recoil sensation? So, Bullseye or AA#2 would recoil more in the same round than HS-6 something slower?

August 29, 2015, 02:53 PM	#20
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Mark, I'm curious why so many Conventional Pistol (Bullseye) shooters use and suggest powders like Bullseye and Titegroup, etc. for light loads? I know when I started shooting Bullseye competition that's what was suggested to me.

August 29, 2015, 03:18 PM	#21
MarkGlazer Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 329	Guys, I can only tell you my personal experience. The burn rate chart bears this out. The faster the powder the more recoil you can get out of a gun. The weight of the gun is also something to be taken into consideration as well, plus the grains of powder plus the bullet type and weight. But overall, the faster the powder, the higher the likelihood of a strong recoil. I started with Titegroup and my wife did not like the recoil, neither did I. She has a CZ 75 P01. At the time I had a CZ 85, now a Canik Stingray. I have 2 lbs left and love working with it in my Rossi .357 lever rifle. I also use it in a .357 magnum pistol. Even in the magnum, Titegroup has a good bounce. I shifted to a lesser burn rate powder (Silhoutte) and our recoil dampened. I shifted down into Longshot and we both found that our accuracy increased and the recoil was even less. I am not an expert, just a consumer with experience. The proof in the test will be what Nathans' wife has to say when she tests rounds with each powder. I would suggest, to be fair, that you load mid-point for each powder, same bullet weight. Send me a PM and let me know how things turn out. Good luck. Be safe. __________________ non ministrari sed ministrare

August 29, 2015, 03:54 PM	#22
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Without velocity data to go along with the powder used the "lower recoil from slower powders" statement is suspect. I would imagine the lower recoil was a result of lower velocities.

August 29, 2015, 04:25 PM	#23
Shotgun Slim Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Location: Va Posts: 291	Nathan you can work with what you have. Take the 124s and start your Titegroup and #5 at slightly below the starting loads you will see in your manuals. Load maybe ten at a time and also load progressively lighter by a tenth of a grain or two,ten at a time,until you get down to where the load won't run the gun.Then you know to load a bit heavier than the failing load. Once you have done that with both powders then just load several of each in order in the same magazine and shoot for feel. Do that with all the powders you care to try and let the best load for what you want to do show itself.

August 29, 2015, 06:48 PM	#25
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	3.0 grains of 700x hi-score under a 125 grain slug is VERY tame in 3.6 barrel Baby Desert Eagle. My 11 year old girl can shoot it very well now, and she has been shooting it for a little over a year now. It cycles the action well also. I like 700x for 9mm because a 14 ounce can is way cheaper than a pound of other powders, you can reload at least 2k rounds of 9mm with it, and it actually is a pretty accurate powder. It's a fast powder, which likely contributes to it being a little less snappy. It is dirty though. Between shooting lead and getting lube gum buildup after a few hundred rounds this stuff adds a lot of soot to it as well. It's dirty, but at least it's easy to clean.