Kel-Tec KSG 14+1 - 12 gauge

diablo508 · February 19, 2011, 02:39 AM

I just came across one of these today online...WOW! I am in love! I cannnot wait to get one...

I already have a Moss 500 (Persuader with Knoxx SPEC-OPS recoil reduction stock) ...but this one just says " BUY ME!!".... who else is gonna be on board?

globalsmack · February 19, 2011, 09:28 AM

The trigger is horrible on this. You have to let it go before you pump for it to reset.

sirsloop · February 19, 2011, 09:43 AM

The idea of a bullpup shotgun is great, but its a unitasker. IDK... I kinda think of my 870 pump as a "do it all" gun. I only see this thing being used in urban combat scenarios... not like you're going to take this hunting or clay shooting. Know what I mean? Kinda falls into the same category as the Saiga 12. Cool shotgun, but probably will never be used for anything but closet duty and blowing up gallon jugs at the range.

Technosavant · February 19, 2011, 10:57 AM

They're going to be extremely popular. For a home defense gun, they'll be hard to beat (for what it's worth, I read that the trigger issue was on a preproduction gun and it will be fixed before they roll off the line for real). Problem is, it's a new design, so it's anybody's guess how it will work and hold up, and it's also rather pricey for a pump gun- $800. For that price I can go to my local gun shop and get TWO 870s with the 6 round magazines.

It looks interesting, a lot of guys will be jumping on them, but it will likely be one of those "love it or hate it" designs, with the main dividing line being one's purpose- if you like guns for defense you'll love it, if you're into guns for hunting and that kind of thing, you won't.

zippy13 · February 19, 2011, 11:42 AM

If is was legal in my state, I might be tempted. However, I get a mental image of a civil litigation attorney telling a jury that a gun like this could be owned only a blood thirsty vigilante, and twelve heads nodding in agreement.

TheKlawMan · February 19, 2011, 01:23 PM

I don't know what the courts will rule, but fully expect the DOJ to treaty this as an illegal weapon based ono what I know, which is that it is designed to functionin with both magines working in unison so as to enable the shooter to switch back and forth from one to another. Since they are intended to function together, the two might be treated as a single magazine system. I also believe, but may be wrong, that the weapon may be used with one of the two magazines removed. If true that would tend to support an argument to the effect that they are two separate magazines. Another possibility is, if the gun is illegal as is, what if they are imported with a plugs inserted to limit the number of shotshells the weapon may hold, as is done to comply with migratory bird hunting laws limiting to 3 shells.

Bill DeShivs · February 19, 2011, 02:05 PM

The gun is not illegal. They aren't imported-they are made in Florida.
What difference would it make if it has 2 magazines?

TheKlawMan · February 19, 2011, 03:17 PM

Bill DeShivs; Sorry. I was referring to its legality in California where a large capacity magazine, meaning any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, is illegal. That is why it could make a difference if it is construed as having a single ammunition feeding device holding 14 shells or two that hold 7.

JohnRaven · February 19, 2011, 04:09 PM

I think its a very interesting design and I would like to try one out...

We'll see how it works after its been on the market for a few years.

As for it being ''illegal'' in California. Who cares. Get the hell out of that communist state.

Technosavant · February 19, 2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

That is why it could make a difference if it is construed as having a single ammunition feeding device holding 14 shells or two that hold 7.

I don't remember if it was California, but I think somebody talked to somebody in one of the more restrictive states, and the answer was that it had two magazines, not one.

You'll probably have to wait and see, but you may get lucky on this one. It just depends on who does the determination and if they're reasonable.

diablo508 · February 19, 2011, 11:53 PM

good points on the gun and it's use...I'm still in the market for a good Trap gun (break-action) but it is just one of those I'm gonna have to get for the sheer coolness! LOL

globalsmack · February 20, 2011, 10:28 AM

Keltec said it's Cali legal. You have to manually switch the tubes. They said they did loads of legal research to make sure it was Cali legal.

Crosshair · February 20, 2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

The trigger is horrible on this. You have to let it go before you pump for it to reset.

Supposedly that was just for the display model at the SHOT show and the production will properly reset. Not sure if that is true or not. We will have to wait and see the production models to see if that really is true or not.

If the trigger does go dead like we have seen in the videos of it then that would indeed be quite the deal breaker for a great many people.

31kilo · February 20, 2011, 11:12 AM

I'll buy the Ruger copy

Crosshair · February 20, 2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

I'll buy the Ruger copy

Honestly, that might not be a bad thing. Ruger would at least ditch the Mattel style of stock assembly that Kel-Tec seems to be stuck on.

ROCK6 · February 21, 2011, 08:51 AM

I'm still on the fence. Regardless of your opinions of Kel-Tech, you do have to give them props for innovation (or at least adaptation) of products. The proof will be in performance and production. The RFB is still lagging in production and that will turn many off. Kel-Tech does have great customer service, but that's not something you want to rely on when you're buy a new product...you want it to work.

I am considering one as I was wanting to add a shorter shotgun and was planning on a SBS. This is a much better, non-NFA, option with great capacity. I hope they get them to the market in good numbers for some real shooter reviews.

ROCK6

a.lol.cat · February 21, 2011, 09:31 AM

Midwest hunters Outlet has them on pre-order for $673.99
http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/...&APID=386&nn=3

It's a TGSCOM, Inc. sub-company that some people have issues with so YMMV. I've personally never had any problem with them.

tonelar · February 21, 2011, 05:36 PM

Being that it is a Kel Tec, I'd wait til it's actually "in stores near you".

PS; apparently it scared Kamala Harris enough; Cali-DOJ is now claiming this to be illegal.

TheKlawMan · February 21, 2011, 05:57 PM

Per another Caifornia gun forum, glockworld has cancelled preorders for a keltec bullpup after it was determined that it is NOT California legal.

jmortimer · February 21, 2011, 06:17 PM

"Kinda falls into the same category as the Saiga 12. Cool shotgun, but probably will never be used for anything but closet duty and blowing up gallon jugs at the range"

Exactly and if Ruger copies it we will all have a better gun to buy.
BTW Kel-Tec does not sell any handguns here as it is so why did they even try to comply with our idiotic gun laws - what a waste of time especially with our new Attorney General.

globalsmack · February 21, 2011, 06:49 PM

I was told at Shot that Keltec makes the plastic grip housing for Ruger as part of a lawsuit settlement against Ruger.

armoredman · February 21, 2011, 07:17 PM

I want one, and I live in AZ, where stupid laws that limit magazine capacity, action type, "evil features", etc., just plain flat don't exist.

This will be awesome in tight corners, wonder what the sem-auto version will look like, especially since kali apparently made it illegal anyway.

Bill DeShivs · February 21, 2011, 07:34 PM

There was no lawsuit, no settlement.

smince · February 21, 2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Supposedly that was just for the display model at the SHOT show and the production will properly reset.

They had two models at SHOT. The LE model functioned as it should, but the model without the reset was the 'civilian' model and it was said to be an 'additional safety feature'.

That is, until smarter heads told their management it was actually a worthless feature. Evidently for once someone listened to the consumer.

Quote:

As for it being ''illegal'' in California. Who cares. Get the hell out of that communist state.

But the weather is sooo nice

Crosshair · February 21, 2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

They had two models at SHOT. The LE model functioned as it should, but the model without the reset was the 'civilian' model and it was said to be an 'additional safety feature'.

That is, until smarter heads told their management it was actually a worthless feature. Evidently for once someone listened to the consumer.

Yea, a couple of stories floating around. We'll see what happens when they start flowing in the supply chain.

February 19, 2011, 02:39 AM	#1
diablo508 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Pinehurst NC Posts: 118	Kel-Tec KSG 14+1 - 12 gauge I just came across one of these today online...WOW! I am in love! I cannnot wait to get one... I already have a Moss 500 (Persuader with Knoxx SPEC-OPS recoil reduction stock) ...but this one just says " BUY ME!!".... who else is gonna be on board? __________________ *Somewhere... a "True Believer" is training to kill you.*

February 19, 2011, 02:05 PM	#7
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	The gun is not illegal. They aren't imported-they are made in Florida. What difference would it make if it has 2 magazines? __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 19, 2011, 11:53 PM	#11
diablo508 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Pinehurst NC Posts: 118	good points on the gun and it's use...I'm still in the market for a good Trap gun (break-action) but it is just one of those I'm gonna have to get for the sheer coolness! LOL __________________ *Somewhere... a "True Believer" is training to kill you.*

February 21, 2011, 06:17 PM	#20
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	"Kinda falls into the same category as the Saiga 12. Cool shotgun, but probably will never be used for anything but closet duty and blowing up gallon jugs at the range" Exactly and if Ruger copies it we will all have a better gun to buy. BTW Kel-Tec does not sell any handguns here as it is so why did they even try to comply with our idiotic gun laws - what a waste of time especially with our new Attorney General. Last edited by jmortimer; February 21, 2011 at 06:24 PM.

February 21, 2011, 07:34 PM	#23
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	There was no lawsuit, no settlement. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 19, 2011, 09:28 AM	#2
globalsmack Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2008 Posts: 145	The trigger is horrible on this. You have to let it go before you pump for it to reset.

February 19, 2011, 09:43 AM	#3
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	The idea of a bullpup shotgun is great, but its a unitasker. IDK... I kinda think of my 870 pump as a "do it all" gun. I only see this thing being used in urban combat scenarios... not like you're going to take this hunting or clay shooting. Know what I mean? Kinda falls into the same category as the Saiga 12. Cool shotgun, but probably will never be used for anything but closet duty and blowing up gallon jugs at the range.

February 19, 2011, 10:57 AM	#4
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	They're going to be extremely popular. For a home defense gun, they'll be hard to beat (for what it's worth, I read that the trigger issue was on a preproduction gun and it will be fixed before they roll off the line for real). Problem is, it's a new design, so it's anybody's guess how it will work and hold up, and it's also rather pricey for a pump gun- $800. For that price I can go to my local gun shop and get TWO 870s with the 6 round magazines. It looks interesting, a lot of guys will be jumping on them, but it will likely be one of those "love it or hate it" designs, with the main dividing line being one's purpose- if you like guns for defense you'll love it, if you're into guns for hunting and that kind of thing, you won't.

February 19, 2011, 11:42 AM	#5
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	If is was legal in my state, I might be tempted. However, I get a mental image of a civil litigation attorney telling a jury that a gun like this could be owned only a blood thirsty vigilante, and twelve heads nodding in agreement.

February 19, 2011, 01:23 PM	#6
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	I don't know what the courts will rule, but fully expect the DOJ to treaty this as an illegal weapon based ono what I know, which is that it is designed to functionin with both magines working in unison so as to enable the shooter to switch back and forth from one to another. Since they are intended to function together, the two might be treated as a single magazine system. I also believe, but may be wrong, that the weapon may be used with one of the two magazines removed. If true that would tend to support an argument to the effect that they are two separate magazines. Another possibility is, if the gun is illegal as is, what if they are imported with a plugs inserted to limit the number of shotshells the weapon may hold, as is done to comply with migratory bird hunting laws limiting to 3 shells.

February 19, 2011, 03:17 PM	#8
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Bill DeShivs; Sorry. I was referring to its legality in California where a large capacity magazine, meaning any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, is illegal. That is why it could make a difference if it is construed as having a single ammunition feeding device holding 14 shells or two that hold 7.

February 19, 2011, 04:09 PM	#9
JohnRaven Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2008 Location: The Republic Posts: 131	I think its a very interesting design and I would like to try one out... We'll see how it works after its been on the market for a few years. As for it being ''illegal'' in California. Who cares. Get the hell out of that communist state.

February 20, 2011, 10:28 AM	#12
globalsmack Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2008 Posts: 145	Keltec said it's Cali legal. You have to manually switch the tubes. They said they did loads of legal research to make sure it was Cali legal.

February 20, 2011, 11:12 AM	#14
31kilo Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Posts: 48	I'll buy the Ruger copy

February 21, 2011, 08:51 AM	#16
ROCK6 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Georgia/Afghanistan Posts: 314	I'm still on the fence. Regardless of your opinions of Kel-Tech, you do have to give them props for innovation (or at least adaptation) of products. The proof will be in performance and production. The RFB is still lagging in production and that will turn many off. Kel-Tech does have great customer service, but that's not something you want to rely on when you're buy a new product...you want it to work. I am considering one as I was wanting to add a shorter shotgun and was planning on a SBS. This is a much better, non-NFA, option with great capacity. I hope they get them to the market in good numbers for some real shooter reviews. ROCK6

February 21, 2011, 09:31 AM	#17
a.lol.cat Member Join Date: December 14, 2010 Location: Da Interwebz Posts: 69	Midwest hunters Outlet has them on pre-order for $673.99 http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/...&APID=386&nn=3 It's a TGSCOM, Inc. sub-company that some people have issues with so YMMV. I've personally never had any problem with them.

February 21, 2011, 05:36 PM	#18
tonelar Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 26	Being that it is a Kel Tec, I'd wait til it's actually "in stores near you". PS; apparently it scared Kamala Harris enough; Cali-DOJ is now claiming this to be illegal.

February 21, 2011, 05:57 PM	#19
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Per another Caifornia gun forum, glockworld has cancelled preorders for a keltec bullpup after it was determined that it is NOT California legal.

February 21, 2011, 06:49 PM	#21
globalsmack Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2008 Posts: 145	I was told at Shot that Keltec makes the plastic grip housing for Ruger as part of a lawsuit settlement against Ruger.

February 21, 2011, 07:17 PM	#22
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	I want one, and I live in AZ, where stupid laws that limit magazine capacity, action type, "evil features", etc., just plain flat don't exist. This will be awesome in tight corners, wonder what the sem-auto version will look like, especially since kali apparently made it illegal anyway.