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August 25, 2019, 05:54 PM | #126 | |
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My impression was that the ammunition had yet to be selected. Can you tell us more about the ammunition that was selected? I'd be interested to know more about it. |
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August 25, 2019, 06:08 PM | #127 | |||
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file:///C:/Users/19109/Downloads/NGSW_Industry_Questions_&_Comments_152_-_281_Part_2.pdf The Government already has the ammunition it wants..... |
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August 25, 2019, 06:14 PM | #128 |
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Projectiles aren't complete rounds of ammunition. Has the Army selected a projectile or has it selected a round of ammunition?
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August 25, 2019, 07:45 PM | #129 | ||
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August 26, 2019, 12:58 PM | #130 | ||
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It is calling for 27 months of initial prototyping and then iterative prototyping for at least 8 years. What that means is the Army will begin fielding the design they accept in 27 months. The design team and manufacturer is on the hook for any design changes that are required for at least the next 8 years. Data will be collected in the units to assist in that. It is kind of like how we got from the M16 to the M4 carbine...... Quote:
It is not going to stifle engineering creativity or ingenuity as long as the ammunition meets the already achieved performance for lethality. I do not think it is very hard to understand nor is it some intellectual exercise. Facts are 5.56mm is obsolete on today's battlefield. You can cry me a river over it but it does not matter what you think on the subject. The Army wants the 6.8mm round and at least the performance it already achieved. It could care less if vendor engineers achieve that performance with ceaseless ammunition, telescoping, or plain ol' brass. The engineers that can come up with the most battlefield advantages and lowest cost in the timeline the Army has set will win. Whoever's prototype offers the most advantages will win the contract. It is that simple. 5.56mm is obsolete and will be replaced. The projectiles the Army wants are being slung downrange at the performance the Army wants as we type in this thread. http://soldiersystems.net/2019/01/31...-weapons-ngsw/ https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=1 Last edited by davidsog; August 26, 2019 at 01:05 PM. |
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August 26, 2019, 01:14 PM | #131 | |
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You’ve insisted over and over that this is a done deal... and it’s not. Nothing is done until it happens. All I’ve contended is that this deadline is too short, that it may not even pass muster or get approved. Definitely not going to happen by 2021... with 2020 just a few short months away. This is a pretty significant upgrade... not only from the 5.56, this aims to replace all that’s been tried. The energy they want isn’t possible from an M4 sized weapon, not without increasing weight and loosing ammunition capacity |
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August 26, 2019, 01:34 PM | #132 |
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I don't know--people have succeeded in making LR308 builds that came all the way down to 6 lbs--even under; then it becomes a game of recoil management and being tuff enough for sustained fire. Hard for me to imagine a high BC/SD .277 bullet that will conform to present day AR/M4 magazine specs and be able to go out long range as well; I'm guessing they end up somewhere between the AR and LR (rem 30 comes to mind).
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August 26, 2019, 01:40 PM | #133 | |
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August 26, 2019, 01:43 PM | #134 |
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Ok, doesn’t seem as realistic now.
I honestly hope this goes through, but I have doubts. If anything, a lot will be learned even if a replacement isn’t selected by this program. I will follow this until the end. |
August 26, 2019, 08:18 PM | #135 |
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It’s horsehockey. Let’s just look at the published requirements. We need a 6.8mm EPR projectile that can penetrate any currently or near term fielded body armor at 600m. It also needs to still deliver accuracy after 10,000 rounds.
Those are two contradictory requirements. For this to happen the Army has to deliver technology no small arms manufacturer has ever showcased. |
August 26, 2019, 08:19 PM | #136 |
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Obsolescence is a powerful motivator.
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August 26, 2019, 08:21 PM | #137 | ||
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August 26, 2019, 08:21 PM | #138 | |
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It’s an underwear gnome project.
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August 26, 2019, 08:38 PM | #139 | ||
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August 26, 2019, 08:43 PM | #140 | |
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All of this exist's right now and at least six vendors are tweaking it to gain efficiencies. https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/...784960?lang=en |
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August 28, 2019, 01:20 AM | #141 | |
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August 28, 2019, 11:59 AM | #142 | |
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Obsolescence is a powerful motivator. This isn't going to the moon or some huge unobtainable engineering leap. The specification calls for 60-80k. 60k is current 7.62mm NATO standard chamber pressure and 80k represents a 25% increase. Remington 7mm Magnum is 65k... I think folks are being somewhat melodramatic in a vacuum. |
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August 28, 2019, 12:58 PM | #143 |
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7mm magnum that will last 60,000 rounds? Take my money if that existed.
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August 28, 2019, 01:50 PM | #144 |
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Do we have a velocity? Early rumors had it up in the .270 Weatherby range.
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August 29, 2019, 03:31 AM | #145 |
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In the recent press release for their NGSW entry, Mars, Inc. and Cobalt Kinetics claim to be launching a 140gr 6.8 bullet at 3,200fps from an 18” barrel.
See: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-ngsw-program/ It looks like they are using a traditional case though - basically just a fat WSSM style case. |
August 29, 2019, 06:39 AM | #146 | |
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August 29, 2019, 08:18 AM | #147 |
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Stag, your link is not working. Interesting the felt recoil for the .308 version was similar to a .223/5.56. Here's the link:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-ngsw-program/ |
August 29, 2019, 09:11 AM | #148 | |
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August 29, 2019, 10:38 AM | #149 |
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Does it say how many rounds that magazine holds and what the loaded rifle will weigh?
On edit: I see it says 20 rounds in a magazine. |
August 29, 2019, 11:05 AM | #150 |
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The MARS rifle is 8lbs with a 13” barrel. Not sure if that is loaded or unloaded, with optics, etc. There is also a 70rd drum.
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing that one being the winner. ETA: A similar dark-horse entry, the XR68 from VK weighs “less than 9lbs unloaded” with a 16” barrel and no optics. Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; August 29, 2019 at 11:21 AM. |
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