Do i need to crimp?

Ub3rn00ber · July 28, 2009, 01:47 AM

I just loaded some 44 mag rounds, they are very snug in the case. Do i need to get a crimp die and crimp them anyway? They are for my raging bull

Shoney · July 28, 2009, 03:14 AM

Yes! You will need to crimp because of the heavy recoil. Using either jacketed or cast, there must be a crimp to keep the bullet from going forward in the chambers of the cylinder.

Neck tension alone probaby will not be enough to hold all bullets as you shoot. They work forward until they stop the cylinder from turning. This situation can be a problem to correct, depending on the cylinder(s).

Start with a light crimp in the cannelur of jacketed bullets or crimping grove of lead bullets. Then measure the cartridges after each shot to see if your crimp is enough. Adjust your crimping die to a slightly heavier crimp if necessary. Shoot them again measuring their length, until your crimp is sufficient.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 28, 2009, 06:34 AM

Agree with SHONEY... even though the Raging is a heavy solid gun, the heavy lead bullets want to stay put if they are not moving, & continue moving once put in motion ( just like you get more penitration with a heavier bullet )... anything in the heavier 357 mag & up as far as bullet weight will want start to jumping crimp under recoil... the lighter the gun, or the heavier the bullet the more stresses are put on the unfired cartridges

I had some Magtech ( normally crimped ) 454 Casull jump crimp & lock up my revolver in a Ruger Alaskan, in the 1st 6 rounds fired ( my 1st time firing the 454 Casull & out of a snubbie )... I had several people tell me I was going to smack myself in the head shooting it... well I'm a pretty big guy, so I was holding the gun too tightly, & stiff arming the revolver during firing, which imparted more recoil forces to the unfired cartridges... after I loosened my grip & let the gun arc upward, I didn't have anymore jumping crimp issues...

so yes, you'll want more than a taper crimp on heavy revolver cartridges

LHB1 · July 28, 2009, 04:37 PM

Quote: "I just loaded some 44 mag rounds, they are very snug in the case. Do i need to get a crimp die and crimp them anyway? They are for my raging bull "

Crimping is needed to prevent bullet jump from recoil and to assist in powder combustion. Won't your present seating die also crimp the round? On the .44 Mag dies I use (RCBS), the bullet seating die includes a roll crimp feature built into the die. Perhaps your seating die simply needs readjustment to crimp the loaded round.

Doodlebugger45 · July 28, 2009, 05:48 PM

You do need to crimp and it's possible to do it with your seating die. But the Factory Crimp Die makes it even easier to do. When you first try it with just the seating die, it's kind of aggravating to get the seating and crimping adjustments set just right to do both in the same operation. I bought the FCD for my .357 and .45 Colt and it sure simplified things. Now that I understand things a bit better, I don't have the FCD for my 44 mag or my 480 Ruger because I'm too cheap to buy those. But a rich Texan should definitely buy the FCD for his 44 setup.

Ub3rn00ber · July 28, 2009, 07:10 PM

I went and got a crimp die. Now that I have a progressive and a single, I like the single stage better. For 9, 45, 7.62 or 223 the progressive would be way better though.

Shoney · July 28, 2009, 07:15 PM

Doublebugger brings up a good point. When to crimp??

If you are using jacketed bullets, you can usually seat and crimp in one operation. With cast bullets I always seat and crimp in seperate operations with the same die, even when reloading on a progressive press. Some people see this as a pain in the butt, however, it will yield more accurate ammo.

When seating and crimping at the same time, the bullet is moving down into the case as the crimp is applied. It rarely effects jacketed bullets, unless you are over crimping, whereupon it shaves copper off the bullet.

Seating and crimping lead bullets at the same time can result in a number of problems, depending on the setup. Usually it shaves a little off the bullet, or it can dig into the lead, either expanding the bullet buy a few thousanths or leaving a ring of lead over the case. These lead ringed cases are hard to see, but can cause the cartridge to hang up and not chamber. Therefore, I opt to seat and cripmp all lead bullets in seperate operations.

Use of a Factory Crimp Die (FCD)
I prefer not to use them. There are many seasoned reloaders who have observe reloaders using the FCD to correct faulty reloading errors. Get it right the first time, then use the FCD if you so desire.

Edward429451 · July 28, 2009, 10:16 PM

It seems to me that you're always better off seating and crimping in separate steps.

Crankylove · July 29, 2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

It seems to me that you're always better off seating and crimping in separate steps.

That has always been how I do it. I personally find it easier to set up doing the seating and crimping in two seperate steps, rather than trying to get the seating depth and crimp dialed in together. I have heard some say that it saves time to do it together, but I really don't find that it saves any time to set it up in one step. The few times I have done them both in one step, I find myself spending more time trying to get it set right in the begining than it would have taken me to go back through and crimp them all once they were seated.

Ub3rn00ber · July 29, 2009, 10:16 AM

I'm loading at the hit end of the speer guide, 7gr of unique. A few of the loads are 7.2 is that going to make a huge difference?

Shoney · July 29, 2009, 12:14 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Ub3rn00ber
Which cartridge and which bullet?

Quote:

at the hit end of the speer guide

What are you saying? At the high end?

Doodlebugger45 · July 29, 2009, 12:39 PM

That's the tough thing about loading at the high end of the range they give. I'm guessing you're loading a 240 gr lead bullet, since that's the only bullet I see in the Speer manual that would call for 7 gr of Unique. They give a range of 6.5 to 7.0 grains. The starting weight is indeed a great place to start and see how it works in your gun before moving up.

I really don't have enough experience with those loads and that revolver to give you any advice on whether to shoot them with 7.2 grains. Sometimes that extra .2 grains can mean a lot, other times not so much. But you're definitely taking a chance starting out at the high end.

If the bullets are actually hard cast rather than softer lead then it might be OK. They call for 9 to 11 grains of Unique with a 250 grain hard cast bullet.

July 28, 2009, 01:47 AM	#1
Ub3rn00ber Member Join Date: March 9, 2009 Posts: 70	Do i need to crimp? I just loaded some 44 mag rounds, they are very snug in the case. Do i need to get a crimp die and crimp them anyway? They are for my raging bull

July 28, 2009, 03:14 AM	#2
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Yes! You will need to crimp because of the heavy recoil. Using either jacketed or cast, there must be a crimp to keep the bullet from going forward in the chambers of the cylinder. Neck tension alone probaby will not be enough to hold all bullets as you shoot. They work forward until they stop the cylinder from turning. This situation can be a problem to correct, depending on the cylinder(s). Start with a light crimp in the cannelur of jacketed bullets or crimping grove of lead bullets. Then measure the cartridges after each shot to see if your crimp is enough. Adjust your crimping die to a slightly heavier crimp if necessary. Shoot them again measuring their length, until your crimp is sufficient. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

July 28, 2009, 06:34 AM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Agree with SHONEY... even though the Raging is a heavy solid gun, the heavy lead bullets want to stay put if they are not moving, & continue moving once put in motion ( just like you get more penitration with a heavier bullet )... anything in the heavier 357 mag & up as far as bullet weight will want start to jumping crimp under recoil... the lighter the gun, or the heavier the bullet the more stresses are put on the unfired cartridges I had some Magtech ( normally crimped ) 454 Casull jump crimp & lock up my revolver in a Ruger Alaskan, in the 1st 6 rounds fired ( my 1st time firing the 454 Casull & out of a snubbie )... I had several people tell me I was going to smack myself in the head shooting it... well I'm a pretty big guy, so I was holding the gun too tightly, & stiff arming the revolver during firing, which imparted more recoil forces to the unfired cartridges... after I loosened my grip & let the gun arc upward, I didn't have anymore jumping crimp issues... so yes, you'll want more than a taper crimp on heavy revolver cartridges __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 28, 2009, 04:37 PM	#4
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Quote: "I just loaded some 44 mag rounds, they are very snug in the case. Do i need to get a crimp die and crimp them anyway? They are for my raging bull " Crimping is needed to prevent bullet jump from recoil and to assist in powder combustion. Won't your present seating die also crimp the round? On the .44 Mag dies I use (RCBS), the bullet seating die includes a roll crimp feature built into the die. Perhaps your seating die simply needs readjustment to crimp the loaded round. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

July 28, 2009, 07:15 PM	#7
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Doublebugger brings up a good point. When to crimp?? If you are using jacketed bullets, you can usually seat and crimp in one operation. With cast bullets I always seat and crimp in seperate operations with the same die, even when reloading on a progressive press. Some people see this as a pain in the butt, however, it will yield more accurate ammo. When seating and crimping at the same time, the bullet is moving down into the case as the crimp is applied. It rarely effects jacketed bullets, unless you are over crimping, whereupon it shaves copper off the bullet. Seating and crimping lead bullets at the same time can result in a number of problems, depending on the setup. Usually it shaves a little off the bullet, or it can dig into the lead, either expanding the bullet buy a few thousanths or leaving a ring of lead over the case. These lead ringed cases are hard to see, but can cause the cartridge to hang up and not chamber. Therefore, I opt to seat and cripmp all lead bullets in seperate operations. Use of a Factory Crimp Die (FCD) I prefer not to use them. There are many seasoned reloaders who have observe reloaders using the FCD to correct faulty reloading errors. Get it right the first time, then use the FCD if you so desire. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

July 28, 2009, 05:48 PM	#5
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	You do need to crimp and it's possible to do it with your seating die. But the Factory Crimp Die makes it even easier to do. When you first try it with just the seating die, it's kind of aggravating to get the seating and crimping adjustments set just right to do both in the same operation. I bought the FCD for my .357 and .45 Colt and it sure simplified things. Now that I understand things a bit better, I don't have the FCD for my 44 mag or my 480 Ruger because I'm too cheap to buy those. But a rich Texan should definitely buy the FCD for his 44 setup.

July 28, 2009, 07:10 PM	#6
Ub3rn00ber Member Join Date: March 9, 2009 Posts: 70	I went and got a crimp die. Now that I have a progressive and a single, I like the single stage better. For 9, 45, 7.62 or 223 the progressive would be way better though.

July 28, 2009, 10:16 PM	#8
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	It seems to me that you're always better off seating and crimping in separate steps.

July 29, 2009, 10:16 AM	#10
Ub3rn00ber Member Join Date: March 9, 2009 Posts: 70	I'm loading at the hit end of the speer guide, 7gr of unique. A few of the loads are 7.2 is that going to make a huge difference?

July 29, 2009, 12:39 PM	#12
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	That's the tough thing about loading at the high end of the range they give. I'm guessing you're loading a 240 gr lead bullet, since that's the only bullet I see in the Speer manual that would call for 7 gr of Unique. They give a range of 6.5 to 7.0 grains. The starting weight is indeed a great place to start and see how it works in your gun before moving up. I really don't have enough experience with those loads and that revolver to give you any advice on whether to shoot them with 7.2 grains. Sometimes that extra .2 grains can mean a lot, other times not so much. But you're definitely taking a chance starting out at the high end. If the bullets are actually hard cast rather than softer lead then it might be OK. They call for 9 to 11 grains of Unique with a 250 grain hard cast bullet.