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May 22, 2018, 07:29 AM | #1 |
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The U.S. Army’s Unicorn Rifle
The U.S. Army is seeking its “Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle”
to replace both the carbine and the SAW in the squad role. This rifle is described on page 16 of this Powerpoint and the unclassified requirements are in this notice: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=0 Among the high points, you’ll notice the rifle comes with an integral suppressor, an unspecified “mid-caliber cartridge with 75-100k PSI chamber pressures.” Along with this, the minimum barrel life is 10,000 rounds with no more than a 10% degradation in dispersion and an overall length of no more than 35 inches with buttstock collapsed. And just in case that doesn’t sound like a tall enough order, it should also be capable of firing a two shot burst with both rounds impacting within 1” at 100m. You’ll also note that there are classified requirements as to hit probability and hit incapacitation (the latter using ARDEC’s new modeling to compute). The rumor mill says at least one of the proposed cartridges is a telescoped polymer-cased 6.8mm tungsten 125gr bullet at 3,500fps from a 16” barrel. Of course, there are many dead and broken dreams on the path from Army powerpoint to functional rifle; but it looks like the Army is planning for some revolutionary change rather than evolutionary. |
May 22, 2018, 09:18 AM | #2 |
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To avoid throat erosion, the barrel will be made of Unobtanium.
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May 22, 2018, 10:25 AM | #3 |
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I see this going nowhere. Just another wasteful project to keep the US military-industrial complex chugging along and sucking at the taxpayer's teat.
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May 22, 2018, 10:51 AM | #4 |
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Wow
Boy that really does set the bar pretty high.
Not sure how long it will be before we see anything quite like that. Also not sure what sort of metallurgical restraints as far as barrel materials goes. 75 to 100K sounds pretty insane. |
May 22, 2018, 06:56 PM | #5 |
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Keeps those useless captains, lite colonels & colonels off the streets.
Insane budgets wasted, then $52 billion they didn't even ask for dumped in there laps, even the strangest ideas are getting dump trucks full of money... Crane is trying to reinvent the wheel, literally... |
May 22, 2018, 09:46 PM | #6 |
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Sounds....interesting. I keep thinking someone has developed some new classified powder.
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May 22, 2018, 10:54 PM | #7 |
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Good thing they're going for an "intelligent rail". Just hope it doesn't cost what the Pentagon
spends on a "substantial screwdriver"... |
May 23, 2018, 12:39 AM | #8 | |
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May 23, 2018, 07:35 AM | #9 |
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I noticed they didn’t list any cost requirement. It does make me wonder though... how many of those individual items they are seeking have been demonstrated at some scale? Is it all just wishful thinking or is some of this stuff maturing?
I know LSAT has been around forever and seems to be doing well. However, the barrel life for that kind of cartridge suggests some pretty amazing and unremarked advances in metallurgy. |
May 23, 2018, 07:50 AM | #10 | |
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Yes, the LSAT is doing very well at burning through taxpayer dollars and lining someone's pockets. |
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May 23, 2018, 11:46 AM | #11 | |
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May 23, 2018, 05:43 PM | #12 | |
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have tweaked both the BAR, and the M60, and they just abandoned them. Stories I heard about the BAR were when that started firing, there were butt-holes, and elbows, and dead people. IMO, many times the army makes a change for the sake of change. |
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May 23, 2018, 06:32 PM | #13 |
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You do know this is "old news"....
This solicitation was put out one year ago, with submissions requested last July. Unicorn, it likely is. Under technology of which we're aware, I don't see it being possible. I do find it somewhat interesting that it could field a non-standard round, likely something in the 6-6.8 mm. realm. But that's a real disadvantage when the NGSAW gunner runs out of ammo, and he can't use 5.56 mags as currently happens. But 20% reduction in ammo weight, while requiring tremendous energy retention at range- sure seems a nonstarter. All in a 12 lb machinegun...and the M249 currently is 17 lbs empty.
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May 23, 2018, 11:46 PM | #14 | |
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May 24, 2018, 11:16 PM | #15 | |
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Alloy steels can get to the lower end of that range, but to reach the upper end and still be "lightweight" suggests exotic materials like Titanium. |
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May 24, 2018, 11:41 PM | #16 |
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Interesting. The really high bar they've set says to me that they are happy with what they have and only something truly amazing is going to make them consider switching.
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May 25, 2018, 07:38 AM | #17 |
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When DOW made the powder for the M-16's ammunition years ago, I wonder if every else assumed science wasn't capable of such feats too?
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May 25, 2018, 08:57 AM | #18 |
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Having personally blown up an AR myself--my inexpert opinion is that most barrels/chambers are already well capable of handling these pressures--even significantly beyond. The real problem is how bad will the consequences be when the inevitable malfunction occurs.
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May 25, 2018, 10:44 AM | #19 | |
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Of course, such a rifle doesn't exist with any current technology. But that doesn't stop the .gov from continuing to burn through taxpayer dollars over and over again to prove this. |
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May 25, 2018, 10:56 AM | #20 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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May 25, 2018, 12:18 PM | #21 |
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To be fair to the OICW program, it was massively successful in the video game world and has led to the experimental, limited deployment of a slightly reduced version of half of that system. So, there’s that going for it.
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May 26, 2018, 11:09 PM | #22 | |
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May 27, 2018, 09:54 AM | #23 |
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Im sure that a Stormtrooper Blaster rifle is in the works.....because its secret...and some of us know these things.... Reversed Alien tech...
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May 27, 2018, 10:30 AM | #24 |
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A plasma rifle in the 40watt range????
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May 27, 2018, 12:03 PM | #25 |
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DE weapons! ⚡️
They got to push the envelope, to get the next best thing. I guess. I believe that some one tried titanium barrels,(s&w? Maybe?) They derifled after a while, far quicker then a normal steel if I’m remembering rigjt |
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