224 Valk

[stagpanther]

IIRC, both were touted as flatter shooting, lower recoil cartridges for practical shooting competitions .......

True...but that's sorta a "happenstance" comparison by virtue of the little 224 bugger scootin along. As pointed out above, that comparison kinda falls apart when a crosswind is introduced.

[jimbob86]

As pointed out above, that comparison kinda falls apart when a crosswind is introduced.

Which is why these fora are so useful ........ pointing out facts, so that one may more easily sift through all the Marketing and Fanboy hooey .......

[stagpanther]

In the spirit of full disclosure--I don't competition shoot either--so I wouldn't know from first hand experience--except that it makes about as much sense to me as saying a 44 mag can be used in place of a 300RUM as a comparable hunting cartridge.

[Damon555]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I raise your 6mmAR by 6mm Predator.

I can dig it!

The little 6mm's are turning out to be a great compromise between the long range calibers and the tiny varmint rounds.

Your cat is chasing it's own tail. 6.5G Comes from the 220 Russian.

Gee thanks for that tidbit.....now 2 people know

[jimbob86]

Gee thanks for that tidbit.....now 2 people know

????

[stagpanther]

Quote:
Gee thanks for that tidbit.....now 2 people know
????

could be just a touch of sarcasm there.

[jimbob86]

re: "sarcasm" ..... Judging by this:

I suspect that I'll be getting a 22-6.5G wildcat in the future.....

- Damon either did not know it, or is just taking to hear himself talk. A cartridge that is already in production is by definition, NOT a "wildcat"... unless one changed it just to be changing it..... it's been done and been done for over half a century.

[stagpanther]

I stay away from the "been there done that stuff" since I assume somebody has tried just about everything at some point. : )

Which brings me to the latest cat I came up with; the ".17 galactic solar system obliterator." It equals the performance of the 6.5 creedmoor!

[Damon555]

been at this a long time billybob

[TrueBlue711]

I'm building a 224 right now. I had an empty lower awaiting to be built into a long range AR. Thankfully, the 224 was announced before I picked out one of the existing calibers. What really sold me was: 1) fits in standard AR lower, 2) LOW recoil, so no spotter required to help watch where shots land at long range, 3) high BC which keeps the bullet supersonic past just 1300 yds, and 4) cost of factory ammo from the start is cheap (I don't reload, so this is a huge factor for me).

Now, my 224 build is almost done. I'm only waiting on the barrel, which should be here in about a week. Went with the CMMG 24" barrel. Really excited for the build to be done then take it to the long distance range near me to stretch it's legs. Yes, the purpose of my build is a bench gun for long range only. Can I hunt with it or haul it around for more mobile shooting? Sure. Will I? Heck no, I have other lighter guns for that.


And all the nay-sayers need to look at what the 224 was designed for: long range shooting using an AR-15 platform. Comparing this to the Creedmoore is literally comparing an AR-15 to an AR-10. If you stick to the same basket of oranges and compare it to all of the other calibers that fit in a standard AR lower, this one seems to come out on top when it comes to long range shooting. Even beats the 22 Nosler.

[COSteve]

In my post #25 above, I wasn't slamming the Valkyrie even though some of you who read it would draw that conclusion.

In the smaller AR15 size platform the Valkyrie's ballistics says it's better than a heavy bullet 5.56. Federal claims it's better at 1,000yds than a 6.5 Grendel so if that's also true it has some usefulness IF one is tied to the AR-15 platform either because they have the lower and upper but just need to barrel it and put in a bolt and carrier, can't handle a larger, heavier rifle like either the AR-10 or M1A but 'need' a semi-auto, or have no interest in a bolt gun.

I also get that there are a lot of folks out there that might feel the AR-15 platform is the proper place to start. It probably will work out over time to have a following. Whether it's a large following or a niche market, only time will tell. Hey, if some guy has an old 6.8spc AR-15 and wants to try something else, it's a natural.

What I believe is that if a shooter comes to the long range, 1,000yd game with an open idea of caliber, it seems to me that the Creedmoor is a better starting point than the Valkyrie. That said, I understand that there are a ton of guys out there with a lot of AR-15 parts that could be built up into a Valkyrie fairly cheaply and that may become a driving force behind the caliber.

[CarJunkieLS1]

Stag I have an 18" PSA 224 Valkyrie Upper. Mine was a little overgassed out of the box, a simple turn of a screw from the adjustable gas block and it's been 100% and doesn't beat up the brass.

The factory 75gr TMJ is MOA accurate and my reloads using RL-17 and a 75 ELD has been stellar. Load development isn't complete but I've gotten many tiny tiny groups.

I'll warn you that the Federal brass is garbage when it comes to reloading, the primer pockets loosen up after 2-3 firings. I've been using Starline 6.8 SPC brass and converting it to 224V. It has 1.3gr less capacity than the federal but I'm on 6 firings for 25 pieces and they aren't having issues. Starline has 224V brass available now so I highly recommend starting there for brass.

Keep us updated

[stagpanther]

I just got in my parts, reload gear and a couple of boxes of federal's 90 gr fusion. Sorry folks--but this calibre is bonafide bad news ballistically--my prediction is that it won't fade away anytime soon.

[ed308]

Sorry folks--but this calibre is bonafide bad news ballistically--my prediction is that it won't fade away anytime soon.

I agree. Looking forward to it being my next build.

[stagpanther]

Well here she is:



As is sometimes the case--the PSA parts didn't play too well with the Anderson lower--the pivot pins are quite tight as are the trigger pins. The EPT trigger--even with a spring kit--breaks right at 5lbs--I'll likely replace it with an adjustable or may do a little spring adjustment--I figure I can get at least another 1/2 lb reduction. The eye relief of the vortex crossfire is a bit too long for an AR IMO--it too will need to be replaced.

Anyway--hope to get out and at least get on paper and break the barrel in.

I got two boxes of 95 gr matchings to start out with for hands-loads--they look like they have great potential

[stagpanther]

Stag I have an 18" PSA 224 Valkyrie Upper. Mine was a little overgassed out of the box, a simple turn of a screw from the adjustable gas block and it's been 100% and doesn't beat up the brass.

The factory 75gr TMJ is MOA accurate and my reloads using RL-17 and a 75 ELD has been stellar. Load development isn't complete but I've gotten many tiny tiny groups.

I'll warn you that the Federal brass is garbage when it comes to reloading, the primer pockets loosen up after 2-3 firings. I've been using Starline 6.8 SPC brass and converting it to 224V. It has 1.3gr less capacity than the federal but I'm on 6 firings for 25 pieces and they aren't having issues. Starline has 224V brass available now so I highly recommend starting there for brass.

Keep us updated

Thanks for that--RL 17? hmmm. Anyways I also bought 250 starline cases--so I figure that will get me going.

[stagpanther]

Just stuck the federal fusion 90 gr ammo into cavity back's cut-out PRI 6.8 mag--fit seems fine (Federals's ammo seems to have a COL of around 2.25 +/-) so I may be able to seat some of the bullets pretty long--depending upon what the chamber allows.

[stagpanther]

Just went out for the first test firing--and the results were--not good.

To be fair--I was mostly test firing to get on paper, scope zeroed and stopping between shots to clean--but nonetheless a few issues made themselves evident. This is NOT a PSA dis-a-flame either, I've had enough experience to know that their assembled rifles and components are often a toss of the dice--sometimes they shoot great right out of the box--but just as often they are "diamonds in the rough" that are going to need some post-op surgery.

The gun appears to firing over-gassed--I was getting a solid "tubular bell clang" upon each recoil--brass ended up getting chucked somewhere in the 4 to 5 o'clock. Not alarming to me--that's actually pretty common for most consumer-grade guns to be over-gassed and can be remedied with some gas adjustment tools.

Brass shavings were ending up inside the receiver--and that IMO is not a good sign. I know that many people think that is normal for a new gun--I am not one of those since I've built guns that did not do that, again I think it's a sign of precision alignment needed or possibly the bolt components need some work, though in the long run probably won't effect the reliability of the gun. A re-assemble may be in order if the problem continues. Brass shavings in a chamber are a real annoyance that will knock off the accuracy of a gun.

The ultra-slim lightweight hand-guard looks like an Aero one, but is stamped with PSA's logo. I know the trend in the industry is for narrow profile MLok rails--I'm not a big fan of this trend because it leaves only the thin flat of the MLok slots on the bottom of the rail which immediately meet the curved sides. Overall, IMO, this makes for a less stable rail when shooting off of bag rests. I prefer more trapezoidal like ones which have a wider flat base at the bottom of the rail for more stability.

It's entirely possible the gun needs to have the right diet of ammo that it prefers, so I'm not especially upset about the 90 gr fusion ammo not grouping well. It's also possible that my average technique with a stiff pull trigger contributed to the lack of accuracy.I have seen a few notes that 90 gr on up bullets "need" 6.5 twist or better--that might be a complication.

I've only got 12 shots down the tube--I'm pretty confident things will improve as time goes on and once I start developing loads looking for the sweet spot the gun likes.

[CarJunkieLS1]

Sorry you are having problems with your upper. Mine was overgassed like yours but it came with an adj. gas block so a few tweaks and it's been great since. As far as barrel twist goes the 1:7 will stabilize the Fusions just fine they are a fairly short bullet not much longer than the 75ELD. It's the 90 Sierra MK that some 1:7 barrels are having trouble with.

BTW the 90 Fusion was a great performer when I shot it into water jugs. Stopped in the 4th jug expanded to over .600 inches and kept over 90% of its weight.

[stagpanther]

Sorry you are having problems with your upper. Mine was overgassed like yours but it came with an adj. gas block so a few tweaks and it's been great since. As far as barrel twist goes the 1:7 will stabilize the Fusions just fine they are a fairly short bullet not much longer than the 75ELD. It's the 90 Sierra MK that some 1:7 barrels are having trouble with.

It's OK--it's not the first time I've run into a "challenge." lol

Your's came with an adjustable block? editI just checked and yes there is an adjustable block! I couldn't see it at first--but right you are! I should be able to tune the hit out easily.

I haven't done any handloads yet--but have done a little playing around with a few bullets to see what kind of COL I can get since I have quite a few larger high BC bullets. Although I haven't used a comparator yet I can already tell that the straight freebore is pretty short in the chamber--consequently the ogive engages the leads/lands pretty quickly. Have you experienced this in your loads? It doesn't seem that some of the longer bullets can be seated even at the "normal" 2.26 COL and need to be shortened to prevent the ogive engaging and pushing back. HUGE drawback IMO!!

Harrison at ARP spent years developing the optimal chamber/throat cut for the 6.8spc--I wonder if he will do the same for the valk--the limitation seems very similar to the original 6.8spc?

Shoulda waited and bought the ARP, I guess: ) No worries, I'll figure something out.

[tobnpr]

For PRS, and maybe varminters I can see it. Far less energy than the Grendel at any practical range, so its mostly limited for paper punching. It'll never stand a chance of replacing the Grendel for hunters.

I have enough trouble spotting bullet traces and splashes from 6.5's and 7's at 1000 yards...this has gotta be about invisible at that range.

What no one talks about, is barrel life. I don't blame 'em, got a cool "V" logo and all, and gotta sell that ammo...Less than the Grendel for sure, but how much less, seems no one knows yet...

[CarJunkieLS1]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

It's OK--it's not the first time I've run into a "challenge." lol

Your's came with an adjustable block? editI just checked and yes there is an adjustable block! I couldn't see it at first--but right you are! I should be able to tune the hit out easily.

I haven't done any handloads yet--but have done a little playing around with a few bullets to see what kind of COL I can get since I have quite a few larger high BC bullets. Although I haven't used a comparator yet I can already tell that the straight freebore is pretty short in the chamber--consequently the ogive engages the leads/lands pretty quickly. Have you experienced this in your loads? It doesn't seem that some of the longer bullets can be seated even at the "normal" 2.26 COL and need to be shortened to prevent the ogive engaging and pushing back. HUGE drawback IMO!!

Harrison at ARP spent years developing the optimal chamber/throat cut for the 6.8spc--I wonder if he will do the same for the valk--the limitation seems very similar to the original 6.8spc?

Shoulda waited and bought the ARP, I guess: ) No worries, I'll figure something out.

I'm loading the 75 ELD at a COAL of 2.280 and haven't had issues with a thing, other than excellent accuracy

[stagpanther]

Interesting--I've just been messing with 80+ gr bullets so far--I think their higher SD profile puts the base of the ogive out there long enough that it starts to jam in the tapering portion of the throat/lands when seated longish. Even the fusion cartridge looks to be shortened to 2.25.

I just logged on to Harrison's webpage at ARP--and this is what he says in the description of his 22" valk "Due to the short freebore bullets shorter than the 90gr SMK will have to be set shorter than mag length to keep the bullets out of the lands." I'm not sure bullet length alone is the determinant, but rather it's sectional density.

[stagpanther]

To test my little theory I made a dummy round with a 75 gr amax--seated it to a COL of 2.3 (which the cavity back magazine allows). It dry-cycled with no problems or evidence of bullet jamming. Compared to sierra's published literature on load data--my guess is I should be able to go beyond both their charge weight and velocity projections.

I have both 2000MR and RL 17--did you find one better than the other? The 2000MR seems a bit more compact--so, you know, always trying to squeeze whatever velocity we can get (safely).

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by tobnpr

For PRS, and maybe varminters I can see it. Far less energy than the Grendel at any practical range, so its mostly limited for paper punching. It'll never stand a chance of replacing the Grendel for hunters.

I have enough trouble spotting bullet traces and splashes from 6.5's and 7's at 1000 yards...this has gotta be about invisible at that range.

What no one talks about, is barrel life. I don't blame 'em, got a cool "V" logo and all, and gotta sell that ammo...Less than the Grendel for sure, but how much less, seems no one knows yet...

Yes, it is a challenge to spot past about 800ish. I have been on glass at PRS matches spotting the 224V a few times now. Trace is hard, splash is harder.

Barrel life is in the 6K range, yes some have been shot out already.