The Cry Continues - Page 2

turkeestalker · July 8, 2018, 09:30 PM

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And it has nothing to do with good or bad, legal or illegal, right or wrong or even having to make sense.

Very true for our opposition, not so much for our side.

**JohnKSa** · July 9, 2018, 12:18 AM

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Sorry, I feel I need to do something more though I don't know what.

Join gun rights organizations. Contribute to them. Recruit new members. Volunteer to help out when they need it.

They're a big part of why we still have the rights we do.

Double Naught Spy · July 9, 2018, 07:07 AM

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I just don't see how or when this ever ends. Daily, w/o hardly looking we can find stories just as this one. When are they finally going to come clean and admit they are not going to stop until there is a complete and utter ban and confiscation of ALL firearms? When are they finally going to be Honest?

There is no issue of needing to admit anything or being honest about anything. They are just fighting a fight, just like we are. If you didn't understand what their goals were, then you simply were not listening and paying attention.

5whiskey · July 9, 2018, 10:24 AM

If anything, the this article at least points out that "common sense gun control" followed by "no one is coming for you guns" is a fallacy. A lot of damage can be done in a short amount of time with a street sweeper. No scary looking rifle needed. So "common sense gun control" ala "things will get better after an AWB" is a fallacy. The shooter in Maryland also stopped shooting. As bad as 5 deaths are, it could have been worse had he decided to continue. We can't automatically assume that the seemingly mitigated death toll is a result of the weapon choice because the shooter stopped shooting. Had he continued, it may have rivaled the MSD high shooting.

I maintain that a rational discussion about gun control should be between two polar opposite sides. No 2A restrictions at all, or a complete retroactive ban and confiscation. Obviously my personal side is for no restrictions, but the point is that all of the "common sense" incremental steps serve almost zero purpose. If gun control advocates want to stop gun violence, they need to cut to the chase and propose a repeal of the 2nd amendment and subsequent complete firearms ban. And they need to be prepared for things to get worse before it gets better. Float that idea to their constituents, or none at all. Because "common sense" gun control is just feel good appeasement to a base.

thallub · July 9, 2018, 04:51 PM

BTW: A victim of the Capital Gazette shooting attacked the shooter. Wendi Winters is credited with saving the lives of some co-workers.

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Winters charged forward holding a trash can and recycling bin, said Cooley, a sales consultant. Winters shouted something like "No! You stop that!" or "You get out of here!" like she was warding off an unwanted dog.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Winters' colleagues agree she saved their lives. Of the 11 employees in the office during the attack, six survived.

Double Naught Spy · July 9, 2018, 04:59 PM

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If gun control advocates want to stop gun violence, they need to cut to the chase and propose a repeal of the 2nd amendment and subsequent complete firearms ban. And they need to be prepared for things to get worse before it gets better.

So what I see here is that you don't like the fact that they have incrementally been successful in their current strategy and you think they should change their strategy to a more unrealistic version (just like your unrealistic version of no restriction which our side isn't floating at all!) that is doomed to failure.

Stop worrying about how you think they should be fighting their fight and worry about fighting the fight that is actually presented to you.

**44 AMP** · July 9, 2018, 08:49 PM

The next time you run into one of the "we'll all be safer and better off if we ban all guns from private hands" types, ask them how safe they'd feel in prison.

There are no guns in "private hands" in prison.

It isn't the gun....

5whiskey · July 10, 2018, 09:12 AM

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So what I see here is that you don't like the fact that they have incrementally been successful in their current strategy and you think they should change their strategy to a more unrealistic version (just like your unrealistic version of no restriction which our side isn't floating at all!) that is doomed to failure.

Stop worrying about how you think they should be fighting their fight and worry about fighting the fight that is actually presented to you.

I didn't know you could read minds, that's quite the talent! Except... you're not very good at it.

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I maintain that a rational discussion about gun control should be between two polar opposite sides. No 2A restrictions at all, or a complete retroactive ban and confiscation. Obviously my personal side is for no restrictions, but the point is that all of the "common sense" incremental steps serve almost zero purpose.

I still maintain that. I understand what death by 1000 cuts is, and why it's being used. But at the end of the day, the overwhelming vast majority of any gun control proposed will do just about nothing to actually save lives. A complete repeal of the 2nd and a total gun ban will ACTUALLY end a large percentage of gun violence... years down the road, but it will end it eventually. Debate on everything else is nothing but whitewash and feel-good. That was my whole point. I don't even have any animus against anyone that has that stance. I disagree with them on that issue, but I don't hate them for it. Gun control advocates, if they want to effectively reduce violence, should cut to the chase.

kmw1954 · July 10, 2018, 09:51 AM

And last night with the announcement of the new SCOTUS nomination the Cry has just ratcheted up 100 fold. The world is coming to an end. People will be dying in the streets, civil rights are now lost forever. They will be forming death camps. Complete and utter meltdown of society.

Business as usual! Once again I must laugh.

**44 AMP** · July 10, 2018, 03:44 PM

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A complete repeal of the 2nd and a total gun ban will ACTUALLY end a large percentage of gun violence...

Yes, when one side has ALL the guns, and can shoot anyone who disobeys, the number of individual shootings will go down. Been done in other countries before...

Double Naught Spy · July 10, 2018, 03:51 PM

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I didn't know you could read minds, that's quite the talent! Except... you're not very good at it.

I was being kind and giving you the benefit of doubt for your unrealistic notions telling the other side how they should fight their fight. Whenever I see folks claiming the other side is not fighting in a manner that is successful enough, it indicates to me that they feel threatened by the manner that the other side is fighting. That is exactly what is going on. Your post clearly shows this.

Anti-gunners don't need to cut to the chase, as you say. They have gained considerable ground through incrementalism and it scares the hell out of pro 2A people, and rightfully so.

So stop worrying about telling the other side about how they should be fighting their fight to achieve their goals and worry more about how you want to stop the gains they keep making.

rc · July 10, 2018, 06:32 PM

While I don't disagree with the need to regulate machine guns, what's "reasonable" to most people is itself highly debatable from person to person. I knew a lady once that preached 5 bullets is enough. Nobody should have more than that ever. Handguns should be limited to revolvers for protection. She was not a gun owner and generally the poster child of a liberal. Nice enough lady but I didn't try to reason with her because there was no point. Her mind was made up. That logic of needs based rights as logical extends to "nobody needs an assault rifle", "nobody needs a handgun", "what's the harm in a waiting period", "Who needs to carry a gun for self defense", etc. Out of this logic has grown the incremental brainwashing of the public to accept restrictive changes that have no substantial affect on everyday crime. Grandfather it now, outlaw it later after the public is used to the idea. California used this approach with magazines over 10 rounds. Australia outlawed all pump action and semi autos for general civilians. They developed lever action variants of shotguns. Now there is a push to outlaw those because they shoot too fast so therefore are too dangerous. In some countries the very notion of having the right to self defense has been limited to the point you can't defend yourself with a gun.

July 9, 2018, 10:24 AM	#29
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	If anything, the this article at least points out that "common sense gun control" followed by "no one is coming for you guns" is a fallacy. A lot of damage can be done in a short amount of time with a street sweeper. No scary looking rifle needed. So "common sense gun control" ala "things will get better after an AWB" is a fallacy. The shooter in Maryland also stopped shooting. As bad as 5 deaths are, it could have been worse had he decided to continue. We can't automatically assume that the seemingly mitigated death toll is a result of the weapon choice because the shooter stopped shooting. Had he continued, it may have rivaled the MSD high shooting. I maintain that a rational discussion about gun control should be between two polar opposite sides. No 2A restrictions at all, or a complete retroactive ban and confiscation. Obviously my personal side is for no restrictions, but the point is that all of the "common sense" incremental steps serve almost zero purpose. If gun control advocates want to stop gun violence, they need to cut to the chase and propose a repeal of the 2nd amendment and subsequent complete firearms ban. And they need to be prepared for things to get worse before it gets better. Float that idea to their constituents, or none at all. Because "common sense" gun control is just feel good appeasement to a base. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

July 9, 2018, 08:49 PM	#32
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	The next time you run into one of the "we'll all be safer and better off if we ban all guns from private hands" types, ask them how safe they'd feel in prison. There are no guns in "private hands" in prison. It isn't the gun.... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 10, 2018, 06:32 PM	#37
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,765	Define "Reasonable" Gun Control! While I don't disagree with the need to regulate machine guns, what's "reasonable" to most people is itself highly debatable from person to person. I knew a lady once that preached 5 bullets is enough. Nobody should have more than that ever. Handguns should be limited to revolvers for protection. She was not a gun owner and generally the poster child of a liberal. Nice enough lady but I didn't try to reason with her because there was no point. Her mind was made up. That logic of needs based rights as logical extends to "nobody needs an assault rifle", "nobody needs a handgun", "what's the harm in a waiting period", "Who needs to carry a gun for self defense", etc. Out of this logic has grown the incremental brainwashing of the public to accept restrictive changes that have no substantial affect on everyday crime. Grandfather it now, outlaw it later after the public is used to the idea. California used this approach with magazines over 10 rounds. Australia outlawed all pump action and semi autos for general civilians. They developed lever action variants of shotguns. Now there is a push to outlaw those because they shoot too fast so therefore are too dangerous. In some countries the very notion of having the right to self defense has been limited to the point you can't defend yourself with a gun.

July 10, 2018, 09:51 AM	#34
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	And last night with the announcement of the new SCOTUS nomination the Cry has just ratcheted up 100 fold. The world is coming to an end. People will be dying in the streets, civil rights are now lost forever. They will be forming death camps. Complete and utter meltdown of society. Business as usual! Once again I must laugh.