NRA being investigated

[Metal god]

I figured I'd go to the most Bias source , that way we can have the most extreme view on this and go from there .

https://everytown.org/press/everytow...to-help-trump/

Originally Posted by Everytown

McClatchy Reports That FBI Is Investigating Whether Russian Banker With Close Ties to Putin and NRA Illegally Funneled Russian Money to NRA During 2016 Election
NEW YORK – Everytown for Gun Safety today launched a new interactive microsite, Everytown.org/NRA-Russia, which details longstanding ties between the NRA, Russia and Trump world, as the FBI reportedly investigates “whether Russian money went to the NRA to help Trump” during the 2016 election.

So they start out reporting what someone else has said .

Originally Posted by Me

Now a days someone can write something that is not true and it be repeated enough that it becomes true enough to start an investigation .

Everytown asks - Questions to ask the NRA

Originally Posted by Everytown

1. Has the NRA received any money from Russia or Russian-linked individuals?

First I ask is it illegal to get money from foreign countries or citizens of foreign countries ? If not then there is no need to ask the question .

Originally Posted by Everytown

2. McClatchy reports that NRA spending during the 2016 election may have exceeded $70 million, but the NRA reported spending only $55 million (still far more than it ever spent on a previous election cycle). Will the NRA definitively say how much it spent during the 2016 election, and reveal if any money came from Russia or other foreign entities?

Once again reporting on something someone else has said based on a secrete leak . Now the second part is worthy IMO of an answer but the motives of the question at this time are questionable IMO .

Originally Posted by Everytown

3. Will NRA leadership fully cooperate with any FBI inquiries into its relationship with Alexander Torshin or Russian officials before and during the 2016 election?

I guess that depends on who's definition of fully cooperate you use ? It seems more and more these days definitions are based on beliefs rather then the actual definition of the words or terms used . I'd like to see them cooperate and that's all I'm willing to ask of the NRA at this time .

Originally Posted by Everytown

4. Did any NRA officials communicate with Alexander Torshin or any other representatives of the Kremlin about the 2016 election or the NRA’s support for Donald Trump?

I think context would be important here . If the two sides did talk during 2016 . I can't imagine the election never came up . Very few of us had any lengthy conversations with people during 2016 and the election never came up . So what is the actual question ? If it's about the second part of question number two then it's already been asked so why have they repeated it in the form of a 4th question ?

I'm not saying I can't believe any of this . Just that we've seen how FAKE accusation have already been used in official ways to start investigations , obtain wire taps and spew propaganda ( and I'm not just talking the dossier , James Rossen comes to mind ) . At this point I can't believe any of it even when written in a official reports . The fact I will never see the actual evidence means I'm not sure how my skepticism can be subsided DTS .

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Once again - stay on the NRA. General investigations of political chicanery is not relevant to this forum.

Staff debated letting this topic run due the risk of wandering into political party warfare. If we go that way again, I'd regret shutting it down.

We thought discussing the NRA was worthwhile but not the other crap.

[turkeestalker]

Here is a link to a story in the WSJ from March 23rd.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-...ews-1521761296

I stand by my position and every word I've typed in this thread.
People, we'd better get a clue and stand together united or we will lose more than can be reclaimed when the climate in this country finally swings more favorable.
It will swing more favorable to supporters of our Constitution and cause soon enough, in the mean time let's not screw that golden opportunity up eh?
We'll likely never be given another.

[turkeestalker]

WyMark, I do not honestly believe that you are part of the problem.
Though I also do not believe that "McClatchy has historically been pretty solid and accurate in their reporting".
We may differ in opinion, but are both members on the same team as I see it.

[Metal god]

The issue is not if McClatchy is accurate in there reporting . I'm betting they are 100% accurate in reporting what they were spoon fed . The issue is if it was cohobated . It seems to me reporters use other news reports as there cohobating evidence rather then actual evidence . That's my point when I said something gets repeated so much it some how actually starts being reported as true .

Then you get Everytown and the like asking questions about things that aren't there . They fire up there base who then repeat the narrative as well as the questions . Before you know it there's a full fledged scandal based on nothing .

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We don't care about investigations of other evil doers whom you may or may not think are evil doers.

Deleted such.

[UncleEd]

If the NRA has been too cozy with Russians, who probably have
ties to Vlad Putin, so be it.

If the NRA has not been too cozy with Russians, so be it.

Reports (OK discount all of them) that some NRA officials
have been wooed and dined in Russia by Vlad's minions.
And visa versa NRA officials have wooed and dined (OK
discount all of those reports too) Russians close to Vlad
in the U.S.

[Metal god]

It's my understanding there are some in Russia trying to get an NRA type of group in to Russia against what Putin wants . Maybe Russia is meeting with the NRA to influence how much the NRA DOES NOT help that happen . There is more then one reason people may talk . The sad thing is we can't believe anything Russia says either .

This may just be away to get a secrete look at the NRA's books . It seems that's the new play book . Lie to the court to get warrants then spy all you can .

[WyMark]

Originally Posted by turkeestalker

We may differ in opinion, but are both members on the same team as I see it.

Thanks. I agree.

[UncleEd]

Metal god,

The "NRA" type movement in Russia is
fronted by one of Vlad's business buddies.

[Skans]

Since when is it not ok for a private group like the NRA to take money from Russians. But, it is ok for ant-gun groups to take money from Hungarian, George Soros?

[Evan Thomas]

Originally Posted by Skans

Since when is it not ok for a private group like the NRA to take money from Russians. But, it is ok for ant-gun groups to take money from Hungarian, George Soros?

You're misinformed. George Soros is a naturalized American citizen and has the same rights you do.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

I've been working late the last couple of days, so I haven't been able to spend much time online. Assuming I get home tonight with enough time, I have some comments I'd like to add to the discussion.

[WyMark]

Originally Posted by Skans

Since when is it not ok for a private group like the NRA to take money from Russians.

No one is saying or investigating whether the NRA took money from Russians. What is being investigated is whether some of that money was used for political contributions. Which IS illegal.

But, it is ok for ant-gun groups to take money from Hungarian, George Soros?

Can't quite determine how this is even remotely relevant to the NRA investigations, other than just being the standard deflection "yeah but Soros!!"

[Glenn E. Meyer]

When Soros breaks the law in a manner relevant to the RKBA, we can discuss that.

Otherwise, I agree that we don't need a thread drift to "Wah, wah, he did it too!"

[SonOfScubaDiver]

First off, I want to thank admin for not only allowing this thread, but also for the patience they've shown with it. It's difficult to "separate the wheat from the chaff" with anything that touches politics, and I know the topic of this thread is walking a fine line when it comes to the rules here.

So, I've had a chance to think about all this over the last couple of days, and based partly on comments some of y'all have made regarding the NRA's diligence in record keeping, and based on reported comments by the NRA saying the same thing, I think it's more probable than not that maybe the NRA got played by this Torshin fella.

I say that because I recently heard another report that explained how it is that the Russians go about infiltrating organizations to then influence either the direction the organizations take, or influence key decisions they make, or get the organizations to become sympathetic to the Russians. When I compared what that report explained with how Torshin's relationship with the NRA developed, it seemed to fit the pattern. I won't go into all the details of how they do it, but basically, what they do is show interest in whatever the organization does, whomever their point person is gets chummy with the higher ups in the organization, and eventually enough of a connection is made that the point person can then exert whatever influence he can on what the organization does. If one understands Russia's intent to magnify and deepen existing tensions in our political system, the idea that a former Russian senator would cozy up to the NRA, under the guise of establishing a Russian version of a gun rights group when the real intent is to use that relationship to further divide us, doesn't seem all that far fetched.

I think it would be in the NRA's best interests to offer the FBI whatever assistance it may need in determining what Torshin's intentions with the NRA have been. Did he get involved with the NRA knowing that he could someday use the relationship to gain access to politicians connected with the organization? Did he in some way play a role in how much the organization has spent in past elections? Is he working as part of a Russian plot to destabilize our political system? These are questions that, in my opinion, need to be answered.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/01/59007...-ties-revealed

[turkeestalker]

ScubaSon... You've obviously NOT thoroughly researched ALL of the available information regarding this if this is your take away.

I think it's more probable than not that maybe the NRA got played by this Torshin fella.

You really need to question what sources that you choose to place your trust in if this is your idea of the correct course of action.

I think it would be in the NRA's best interests to offer the FBI whatever assistance it may need in determining what Torshin's intentions with the NRA have been. Did he get involved with the NRA knowing that he could someday use the relationship to gain access to politicians connected with the organization? Did he in some way play a role in how much the organization has spent in past elections? Is he working as part of a Russian plot to destabilize our political system? These are questions that, in my opinion, need to be answered.

I'm thinking pound sand might be the appropriate response from the NRA... but that's just uninformed me.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

God forbid the Russians ever get smart enough to play that game with the 1,001 leftist organizations already sympathetic to them.

Сэр, вы не правый.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

God forbid the Russians ever get smart enough to play that game with the 1,001 leftist organizations already sympathetic to them.

This is about a foreign entity infiltrating an American organization to further its goal of destabilizing our political system. It doesn't matter if the organization is known to support one party or the other. This particular discussion is centered on the very real possibility that this has happened to the NRA.

[turkeestalker]

*smiles*

[SonOfScubaDiver]

You've obviously NOT thoroughly researched ALL of the available information regarding this if this is your take away.

What's the alternative, that they were willing participants in a scheme for Russia to create back channel access to our politicians?

You really need to question what sources that you choose to place your trust in if this is your idea of the correct course of action.

It makes a helluva lot more sense than not taking a proactive approach.

I'm thinking pound sand might be the appropriate response from the NRA... but that's just uninformed me.

Of course you do, because in your mind this is just more anti-gunner BS rather than something that's worthy of investigation. The articles I've posted include some responses from the NRA. Maybe you could research other articles that expand on those responses to add to the discussion. That's what I'm planning on researching next. That would be better than suggesting the NRA tell investigators to go pound sand.

[turkeestalker]

Scuba, have you questioned where NPR got the original story that you posted the original link to?
Have you looked into the back story about the McClatchy story which was their source, inspiration, what ever you wish to call it?
Have you read the story in the link I posted?
Would you like to read this link?

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...e-news-sources

There are a whole lot more out there, just look.
You need new sources.

[turkeestalker]

The lawyer told the two McClatchy reporters of the story in your second link that the information that they included in their next story regarding her was false the day before they ran the story... yet they still ran the story.
I don't have a clue what that might tell you but I know exactly what it tells me.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Yes, I read the story about the attorney. Her name is on a list of people members of Congress want to interview, and she's said that it would be a waste of time because it's not true that she had concerns about the NRA's connection with Torshin. I have no reason to disbelieve her. If that's your basis for writing off the story about the investigation, then it seems weak to me. That isn't any kind of bombshell statement that invalidates the whole investigation or the story. She's just one of a dozen or so people on this list. The headline caught my attention (which is the whole point of a headline), but the story itself disproves the assertion in the headline.

[Metal god]

Not that it really matters but have any of you seen this get picked up by any of the major news outlets ? I have not but I don't watch or read many of the big 4 . If CNN or MSNBC are not running this story every day then that would tell me even they think it's bull .