NRA being investigated

[SonOfScubaDiver]

I submitted a link to one of the admins for approval. I'm starting to think that there won't be a way to tip toe around the political aspects of this investigation, so we may have to leave this one alone.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Ok. I got approval from admin to post this link. The Russian in the middle of the investigation of the NRA has a history of shady dealings in other countries. It seems to me that one of two things happened---he either played the NRA or they knew what he was up to and accepted money from him anyway. I don't like the NRA, but I really hope it was the former and not the latter.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...195231139.html

[turkeestalker]

"Great Odin's Raven!!!!

I guess these last 18 months and countless tax payer dollars maybe haven't been a complete waste of a dog and pony show after all!!

Seriously SonOfScubaDiver?

This one line just a short way into that 'article', tells me all I need or would care to know about what's in the article... that'd be about zip.

All of the sources spoke on condition of anonymity because Mueller’s investigation is confidential and mostly involves classified information.

Did you ever as a kid corner a snake of some kind?
Take a stick with a fork at the end, or maybe just your forefinger and thumb, and trap it just behind it's head in order to try to pick it up?
What did the rest of the snake, the part that was still able to move about while it's head was firmly trapped in place do?
Maybe wildly flail about writhing and curling frantically trying to escape?
Probably because it had an overwhelming sense that it's end was near?
What do you think is going on with the snakes that we call our opposition right about now?

I'm so done with paying any attention to the BS spewed by the anti-gun folks by now, and what's so funny about that is the fact that they've just barely even gotten started.

Wait for it... it'll blow your mind as they lose theirs.

[turkeestalker]

I get that you don't like the NRA, I can't even say that I approve of their actions and positions 100% of the time.
What I do approve of and am grateful for is that they are a very LOUD voice that when it gets down to the nuts and bolts of it all, are on OUR side.
The organization has enough folks out there that are trying to undermine their effort on OUR behalf... why be part of the opposition?

[Colorado Redneck]

If the NRA did funnel Russian money to any political campaign in our country, I want to know about it. Period.

[turkeestalker]

So do I, but I'll wait for some proof before passing judgement or even speculating about it.

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Well, I can't help it that you aren't interested in actually reading the articles, turkeestalker. That's your choice to make, but you only make yourself look uninformed when you claim it's only BS from the "anti" crowd. The FBI isn't part of the "anti" crowd. Neither is the FEC. And, contrary to what you may think, the last thing I want is for the NRA to get sucked into this Russia investigation. Regardless of what my personal feelings are about their tactics, I recognize that they are the largest lobbying force gun owners have in DC and state legislatures, and as such, I'd hate to see them get into trouble. These investigations are real and people are getting indicted. The NRA is now part of those investigations, so I think it's important for us to know where that investigation is going. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand and pretend that it's nothing more than some "antis" but the organization you approve of and are grateful for could very well be in hot water.

[WyMark]

I'm not really sure why you're discounting the article out of hand, other than it could be negative for the NRA and so you don't like it. Maybe you should actually read it?

McClatchy has historically been pretty solid and accurate in their reporting, and nothing about this article makes me think this is an exception. Nothing about it is ant nra or gun, just reporting the link between Russian money and NRA political funding. Interested to see where it goes.

[turkeestalker]

Yeah, like you said earlier, "caught with their pants down".
Sorry, but I've not seen beans of any consequence come out of this 'real' investigation.
When I do I'll start lending a very small ear to the facts that are presented at that time.
What I won't do is jump on the bandwagon that the entire media has been breathlessly riding for the last year and a half that oddly doesn't even after all that time, seem to have any wheels.
My head is not in the sand, but it's not floating about up in the clouds either.

[turkeestalker]

I'm waiting to see where it goes.
Until it does go somewhere, I'll lump it with all of the other BS that has used a very similar turn of this phrase...

All of the sources spoke on condition of anonymity because Mueller’s investigation is confidential and mostly involves classified information.

...that we've had shoved down our throats for what seems like an eternity.
That is no more than a fancy way of saying 'unnamed sources'.
Experience should tell us what that means.

[WyMark]

Solid plan turkeestalker, cover your ears and yell "LALALALALA".

Works every time.

[turkeestalker]

Listen, we have a choice to make, are we going to be a part of the solution or the problem.
I'm done with those in our own ranks that want to feed the problem.
United we stand, there aren't any other options.

[turkeestalker]

Solid plan turkeestalker, cover your ears and yell "LALALALALA".

If that's what you want to call waiting for some proof, then you're part of the problem in my view.

[turkeestalker]

The FBI isn't part of the "anti" crowd.

You're sure about that?
Seems to me that some of the 'bosses' were and maybe are.

[44 AMP]

The FBI isn't part of the "anti" crowd. Neither is the FEC.

maybe...

Certainly not officially, as officially, they must be neutral. However, I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that individuals within those agencies (and every other agency of govt) don't let their personal political persuasions influence their work.

Of course, that would be a violation of policy, and possibly law, but people are people and some of them will bend or break the law for what they believe is a good cause.

As to investigating the NRA and Russia, or a certain Russian, so what? It gets reported so the NRA LOOKS like they did something wrong (otherwise why investigate, right?), but investigation is not even remotely the same as bringing charges, or having proof. Until/unless sufficient evidence is found to bring charges, until then, investigation is NOTHING more than trying to find out what is, and isn't reality.

Remember that investigations are also used to clear someone of false charges, too...

They could investigate the waitress the Russian tipped when he got lunch. TO make sure she didn't illegally donate her tip money to Trump.....

Unless they file charges, it means nothing.

Banner headlines reporting the NRA is under investigation, while factual, are simply being used as a smear tactic, implying, and counting on the gullibility of people to believe that investigation = guilt.

Until the investigation is concluded, it means only that there is an investigation. NOTHING else.

[turkeestalker]

Banner headlines reporting the NRA is under investigation, while factual, are simply being used as a smear tactic, implying, and counting on the gullibility of people to believe that investigation = guilt.

A perfect example of just one tactic used relentlessly by our opposition throughout the last year and a half, (arguably decades), designed to divide and defeat us... and used VERY effectively.
Any means available to instill doubt... fear... dissent... and ultimately division amongst ourselves, their enemy.
There is no more sure fire way to insure their victory and our defeat... and they are darn well sharp enough to understand that, even when we are apparently not.

Whether we are hand gun, rifle, or shotgun guys or gals... weekend plinkers, hunters, collectors, or hard core competitors... all that matters is we are all pro-gun and like it or not we are ALL in this fight against the anti-gunners together.
We had better figure out how to be at least as sharp as they are or we will surely lose.
This is not a battle that our nation can afford to lose, even if a good portion of it is just too clueless to realize that.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, that assumes that the intent is to divide us rather than create the appearance of division. I’m sure gun owners who support gun control exist. They do seem to appear here in numbers all out of proportion to what I encounter in real life.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Folks, we are not into ideological purity here and certainly not into having ideological tests for political party membership (which we don't care about). Such has been and will be deleted.

Gun owners are not monolithic on legal principles and gun control is too broad a term to say you are opposed or not opposed to a specific measure.

Turn back to whether the Russians and the NRA are doing whatever or not doing whatever.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by SonofaScubaDiver

The FBI isn't part of the "anti" crowd.

And yet two different people within the FBI just illegally leaked details of a classified investigation to the press, including a dossier outlining intelligence on what the FBI suspects to be a Russian organized crime figure; but they didn’t provide a single detail about actual money to the NRA except that the Russian is an NRA member and attends its meetings? Apparently they also neglected to mention to the journalist that the FBI had not contacted the NRA about this investigation either.

That’s an odd sort of leak to make, don’t you think?

[5whiskey]

If the NRA did funnel Russian money to any political campaign in our country, I want to know about it. Period.

I will agree with this sentiment. I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction to any investigation, including the Mueller probe. I am not on the "cheer-leading Mueller" side, but if there is enough to substantiate an investigation into something I would prefer that it happen so long as it does not turn into a witch hunt. If anything, let it happen to clear the name of the person being investigated.

My problem, though, is that some things that well should be investigated are ignored. Peter Strzok and Lisa Page anyone? Let our investigators be bi-partisan in the use of their resources.

[5whiskey]

Keene also helped lead a high-level NRA delegation to Moscow in December 2015 for a week of lavish meals and meetings with Russian business and political leaders. The week’s festivities included a visit to a Russian gun company and a meeting with a senior Kremlin official and wealthy Russians, according to a member of the delegation, Arnold Goldschlager, a California doctor who has been active in NRA programs to raise large donations.

In a phone interview, Goldschlager described the trip as a “people-to-people mission,” and said he was impressed with Torshin — who, he noted, hosted both a “welcoming” dinner for the NRA contingent and another one.

I do have to at least question the need for the NRA to do a "people-to-people mission" to Russia. I understand that it is a large enough organization that it may have to do business with foreign entities... but it is an American organization deemed the NATIONAL Rifle Association, not the International Rifle Association. I see no need to send delegations on week long trips to a country that has, traditionally, not been our ally and especially during a time period when we were at serious odds with Russia over Ukraine and Syria. That's... bad optics.

That's my biggest takeaway from the article. I'm not very pleased about this type of "outreach" by the NRA.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by SonofaScubaDiver

Ok. I got approval from admin to post this link. The Russian in the middle of the investigation of the NRA has a history of shady dealings in other countries. It seems to me that one of two things happened---he either played the NRA or they knew what he was up to and accepted money from him anyway. I don't like the NRA, but I really hope it was the former and not the latter.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nati...195231139.html

If you don't like the NRA, that's a fine link. It's also not a great way to learn about whether any legitimate campaign finance laws have been broken. It takes the reader through the investigation, but at this point that's just what it is.

Let's take it as a given that russians have involved themselves in our electoral process at least from 1932 onward. It hasn't generally been as brazen as it appeared in the co-ordination caught on microphone to tell Vladimir "after my election I will have more flexibility" and getting a "I stand with you" in return. Russians had money in every election in which Gus Hall was on the ballot.

Foreign nationals are not permitted to contribute to candidate campaigns. They are entitled to contribute to issue advocacy.

As the article notes, it is more than the FBI who are interested in investigating this.

Originally Posted by Stone and Gordon, linked above

California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, sent letters in November to two senior Trump foreign policy aides, J.D. Gordon and Sam Clovis, seeking copies of any communications they had with or related to Torshin; the NRA; veteran conservative operative Paul Erickson; Maria Butina, a Torshin protege who ran the Russian pro-gun group he helped launch, and others linked to Torshin.

As Bartholomew Roberts noted, the NRA is aware of its own audit history.

Originally Posted by 5Whiskey

Let our investigators be bi-partisan in the use of their resources.

Mueller is not permitted to do that. His authorization is quite broad, but doesn't include bi-partisan breadth.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...67231/download

[Metal god]

My guess is FAKE news . Maybe not the investigation but how it got started . The fake reporting that goes on is staggering . I don't mean just by the media but the pure misinformation purposefully being released in order to get a reaction is mind boggling . Now a days someone can write something that is not true and it be repeated enough that it becomes true enough to start an investigation .

As far as "IF" this is true . The NRA is way to big with way to much money for this to stick . No way the NRA does not have enough money to show what ever money a Russian gave them never went to a politician . It would be like trying to prove planned parenthood uses tax dollars to fund abortions . They both have way to much money other places to pull from and just put the tax dollars/Russian money somewhere else .

Most are only going to read the head line rather then the actual stories . IMHO this is just another part of the ongoing attempt to slander the NRA . This is just to get people talking and lump the NRA into the Russian probe . You then can have guilt by association . You only leak when you have an agenda . Just ask Comey , he made it quite clear why he leaked info to a friend to then leak it to the press .

[SSA]

Googled 'Trump Russia NRA' and got 8 million results. Lots of information there for anybody who wants to look. Names, dates, pictures, facts.

[turkeestalker]

Googled 'Trump Russia NRA' and got 8 million results. Lots of information there for anybody who wants to look. Names, dates, pictures, facts.

The FBI and FEC probably need to know that, could be just the clue to crack this case!