Cut Down 1851?

[sixgunnin]

Anyone have any experience with a cut-down cap n ball? What do you think? I am tempted to get a barrel to cut down. Is it a good idea?

[rodwhaincamo]

It's a good idea if you like it. And with a Colt style pistol there's always an additional barrel to be had.

I have a need for a Colt Walker. As a primary hunting weapon 9" is great. But if I were to need to track something, especially a hog, I'd think a shorter barrel, an easy swap, would be more ideal. And I've also wondered about an additional barrel reamed smooth for small game with shot. But I'm not sure about pattern density and energy. Maybe a .410 choke would work well enough.

[James K]

Sounds good - until comes loading time. With a short barrel, you have a short loading lever, and the shorter the lever is the harder it is to operate. (And yes, I have tried it, so this is not about theory; one solution is to use a piece of plastic water pipe to work the lever without hurting the hand.)

Jim

[44 Dave]

I bought what Pietta called their '62 Police barrel. It is a 5 1/2 .36 barrel and turns my '51 Navy into a short barrel (sheriff's) '61.
Got the barrel on e-bay with loading leaver and sight for a reasonable price then fit it so either barrel can be used.
Yes a "cheater" makes it easier to load.

[TruthTellers]

I've also had short barrel cap and ball temptations, especially for the Colt style because I can change the barrels.

Then better sense usually hits me.

Like James K said, loading becomes a problem on the gun. You can always remove the cylinder and load using a stand, but with the Colt's, it's too time consuming. Again, the ease of removing the Remington cylinder makes it worth considering.

But cutting down a perfectly good New Model Army is a tough pill to swallow. However, a snub NMA and a gated conversion makes for one heck of a pocket sledgehammer compared even to modern revolvers like the Charter Bulldog and Taurus Public Defender.

So is a cut down 1851 a good idea? Depends, how much money does it take to part with until the point it becomes a bad idea? If you buy a spare used barrel, you're looking at $100 right there. Then there's the work you have to do chopping it down and doing it right.

[Hawg]

They don't appeal to me but then I'm probably the most traditional person here. If they didn't come that way originally I don't want them.

[Smokin'Joe]

Be careful with the idea about a smooth barrel for your revolver. There may be legal issues to consider. I know the modern .45/410 revolvers are required to have rifling to be legal.

[Hawg]

Be careful with the idea about a smooth barrel for your revolver. There may be legal issues to consider. I know the modern .45/410 revolvers are required to have rifling to be legal.

Key word being "modern". You can do what you like with percussion.

[Fingers McGee]

I'm using a pair of Navy Arms Frontiersman revolvers in CAS. They are 5 1/2 inch '51 Navies that Uberti made in 2005/6 time frame. They were charcoal blue/CCH with better than normal CCH and premium wood for the stocks. Backstrap is Nickel plated, Proof marks were under the trigger guard and bottom of the barrel under the loading lever so there are no markings visible on the frame except the SN. Barrel address is: "Frontiersman Navy Arms Company, Union City, NJ" . Front sight is taller then the normal '51 and it has he improved cylinder latch. They are well balance and quick oout of the holster. I would guess that currently made short barreled '51 style revolvers in .36 or .44 would be similar in performance.

Don't know many of these were actually made. I got mine in 2007 NIB. Serial numbers are 7 and 30. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures thanks too photobucket.

You can get a nice lever extension from Desperado Cowboy Bullets:

http://cowboybullets.com/SliXhand_p_43.html

[bedbugbilly]

Not my cup of tea but a lot of folks have used their hacksaws to make a "belly gun". Don't know if your are talking a shorter barrel as in 5 inches or so or a "snub"?

The problems with having to shorten the loading lever have already been addressed. I had a Navy
Arms .36 with a short barrel and loading lever and it was a PIA - the short piece of PVC or conduit did work but the pistol soon left the herd.

IIRC - there was a "Colt Trapper" (clone of a Colt) that was offered at one time - can't remember who made it but probably in Italy. Basically a short barreled C &
B and the loading lever was left off. It came with what I would call a "ball seater" - resembled a "short starter" that was fitted to the hole where the ram would normally be. You pocket carried it and when you loaded, you slid it into the ram hole land it had a knob on top that you hit with the palm of your hand to seat the ball in the chamber. I can't imagine it was real handy to load that way, having to support the revolver in some manner but it would work.

[Fingers McGee]

The Trappers were Signature Series Colt's made from 1996 to 2002.

[Trum4n1208]

Historically, these guns existed. I recall reading that Orrin Porter Rockwell's last pistol was an 1851 Navy with a cut down barrel. One potential work around regarding the loading would be to keep the loading assembly as is and simply attach it the gun as needed, load, and then take it off again. Not a quick process, but faster than loading off the gun I'd imagine.

[4V50 Gary]

What Hawg said. Cap 'n ball is not federally regulated.

If behooves one to have a cylinder loader if they're going to lop the barrel off. As pointed out, the rammer had nothing to attach to.

[Hawg]

Historically, these guns existed. I recall reading that Orrin Porter Rockwell's last pistol was an 1851 Navy with a cut down barrel.

I didn't say they didn't exist. I said they didn't come that way.

[rodwhaincamo]

My 5.5" NMA's loading lever becomes uncomfortable after loading a few cylinders. Using a rag I keep for wiping down fixes this for the most part. However, were the lever any shorter, something I've considered with this pistol making it about 4" or so, is to also shorten the lever and keep a cheater bar for loading. No installing/removing the assembly or cylinder necessary.

[Trum4n1208]

I didn't say they didn't exist. I said they didn't come that way.

Fair enough. sorry about that. I think they could be custom ordered with a short barrel, but I've never looked to see if any were made.

[Hawg]

I think they could be custom ordered with a short barrel, but I've never looked to see if any were made.

No sir they could not. I think Colt did offer something like a 10 or 12 inch barrel as a special order but not many if any were ordered. The 49 pocket was available in IIRC four different barrel lengths from 3-6 inches but none of the other cap and ball guns were. Special order barrels were available with the 73's for a dollar an inch over 7 1/2 inches but I don't remember prices on barrels under 4 3/4.

[Fingers McGee]

The '62 Pocket Police and Pocket Navies could be had with 4 1/2, 5 1/2, or 6 1/2 inch barrel lengths

[Hawg]

Thanks for the correction Fingers.

[prof marvel]

Originally Posted by Hawg

No sir they could not. I think Colt did offer something like a 10 or 12 inch barrel as a special order but not many if any were ordered. The 49 pocket was available in IIRC four different barrel lengths from 3-6 inches but none of the other cap and ball guns were. Special order barrels were available with the 73's for a dollar an inch over 7 1/2 inches but I don't remember prices on barrels under 4 3/4.

Greetings My Dear Hawg -
re: special order (short) barrels on Colt 1851...

There is one, single, notable exception that showed up in an auction:
Captain Schaeffer's Colt- a Colt 1851 special ordered from the factory with a 3.5" barrel.
Highly Attractive Special Order Short Barrel Gustave Young Factory Engraved Colt Model 1851 Navy Revolver with Ivory Grip and Holster.

for your entertainment here is a link to the original at RIA auctions:
http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/51/lid/1324

and the recent reproduction, altho with a 4" barrel :-(
http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/...I-110p1854.htm

Thus, we see that it *did* happen at least once, but was not common.

yhs
prof marvel

[Hawg]

I guess when you're willing to spend that kind of money anything is possible.

[sixgunnin]

Don't know if your are talking a shorter barrel as in 5 inches or so or a "snub"?

Yes, it looks like I didn't clarify very well. I am talking about a snub, 1.5'' to 2''. Anyone ever fire one? What type of velocity reduction would I be looking at?

[rodwhaincamo]

Somewhere online is ballistics by the inch where they kept cutting the barrel back to see how it altered velocity. My search (typical of the old Bing commercials where you found everything but what you are looking for) was empty.

One thing I do recall concerning a conversation about cutting a pistol barrel down while using a more typical ~30 grn charge in a .44 cal was that under about 3.5" it wouldn't completely consume the powder.

[rodwhaincamo]

No barrel on an 1860 Army with a ~30 grn charge and ball created just 150 fps for 7 ft/lbs of energy.

http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/a...s/capping.html

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Fingers McGee

The '62 Pocket Police and Pocket Navies could be had with 4 1/2, 5 1/2, or 6 1/2 inch barrel lengths

And the 3 1/2 inch barrel from Taylor's