Hunting in brush heavy areas?

[mwal]

I use a Marlin 336 in 30/30 with Xs ghost ring sights with 170 grn soft points. This is a quick handling rifle that is quick to get on target. Ammo is easy to get and is reasonably priced allowing me to do a lot of off hand practice. That is what you need to spend time doing regardless of your choice of weapon. Keep gun at your normal carry position then quickly acquire target mount and fire in one smooth motion. Keep practicing until you become one with the rifle. Soon it becomes an extension of your arms if its fitted properly. No tilting of the head to acquire sight picture no fumbling hammer or safety. Proper field practice is what is missing with so many of today's hunters. They purchase a magnum rifle that is not really needed for the ranges they hunt ammo is expensive and they are over scoped as well. So 3 shot down range out of a mechanical rest and off to the woods you go. You never really get to know the rifle. Does it come to the shoulder smoothly does the scope give you full field of vision with out moving head. All things the starter of this thread needs to consider when he makes his choice. In the brush when walking long distance with little chance of a shot over a 100 yards I carry the 30/30. If in broken terrain where any type of shot is possible I carry a 7mm-08 with 3x9 that I also shoot offhand and prone etc and know what i can do at 25 or 300 yards. What ever your choice have a fun and safe hunt and show us photos if you get one.

Mwal

[jimbob86]

What would you recommend for deer at 25-75 yards that is light and easy to carry and can be put on target quickly.

"The best rifle is the one you have."

Provided the stock fits you,and the scope is set up right, a rifle with a 3-9X40 set at 3X that you are as familiar with as you are your car or your silverware or any other tool you use every day beats something that is a stranger to your hand and eye.

Practice. You can practice mounting the gun and getting on target without leaving home and it costs nothing but a few moments a day. Dry fire.

Practice. Practice. Practice.

A gun for this task and a gun for that task and one for the other ..... just excuses to buy another gun.

[RevGeo]

I'm with jimbob86; use the gun you have. In my part of Idaho (Panhandle Unit 2) 100 yards is a long shot most of the time. BUT there are power lines and clear cuts that offer longer shots.
I shoot a single-shot Mauser 98 chambered for 30-40AI, 22" barrel and a Leopold 3X-9X, which stays on 4X 99% of the time.
The buck I shot last season was 135 yards away. The one I shot 2 years ago was 40 yards away. Since I sit and wait for the animals to come to me a scoped rifle is no hinderance.
If I were going to buy a new rifle just for hunting the Idaho woods for deer, elk, moose and bear I'd probably get a Savage 99 in either .308 or .300 Sav. But thats just because I really like that model.

[Longshot4]

My Browning BLR Mod 81 in a 358 Win. Will drop what ever you see with no minced meet. With a 1-4 Leopold is my Michigan Deer rifle. Dial it down and it's like looking out a window. For that runner at 10 Ft. Or dial up for longer shots like 200 Yds. The rifle is Well balanced fast and light with a 200 Gr. Hammer. That would be my choice.

[Unlicensed Dremel]

life long new englander here.there are no brush busters any contact with branches may alter trajectory quite a bit even with a .458win never mind a 45-70.
as far as levers and auto loaders,shots on running game never pay off.
for thick brush use a light weight gun with a short barrel like a 7mm-08,260rem,6.5-55 and actually if only hunting deer a .243.shoot inbetween the branches.
if you insist on running shot use a 12ga shotgun with #2buck which gives a bigger spread on running deer heads and necks then 00 buck.

however if you stay quiet and scentless any gun is a winner.any good shooter who makes his own ammo and spends every waking hour at the range can hunt west.but it takes something more than gun skills to get within 65 yards of scent weiley whitetails.

This... Green MT Man speaks very wisely. No such thing as a brush buster. Only caveat I'd add is that if you DO use a .243, use a bullet at least 80 grains, of a hunting (thick jacket) construction, because if you DO hit, say, a blade of grass you don't see, the .243 is so fast that the lighter bullets can just disintegrate even hitting a piece of thick grass or weed, nevermind a branch/twig.

[green_MTman]

i also think the 7mm TCU would be a fun brushy 55,65 yard deer rifle

[Hunter Customs]

as far as levers and auto loaders,shots on running game never pay off.

I'll have to disagree with this, shooting running game is not hard to do if you know how.

The largest percentage of the deer I've shot were running shots using a Savage 99.

The Savage 99 has a natural swing for me, easy to follow through with a 99.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by Hunter Customs:

I'll have to disagree with this, shooting running game is not hard to do if you know how.

^^^I gotta agree. A running deer at reasonable ranges with the proper angle is not that hard. If we are talking brushy areas like the content of this thread, the range will probably be short. Most of my deer in the past 30 years have been from thick brushy terrain while still hunting/stalking. More than half the deer were jumped from their beds at ranges of 30 yards or less. Not a difficult target if you concentrate on one good shot.

[Gunplummer]

I have to go with the shooting moving deer guys. I was at the range one day just talking about the last hunting season and some guy blurted out how "He would never shoot at a moving deer and nobody else should either". A couple of us laughed out loud. One guy said " If I never shot at a running deer where I hunt, I would never get a shot. Anybody that won't shoot at a running deer is either an amature or hunts where the terrain is flat and too dangerous to do it." I think the misconception of shooting at running deer comes from people that jump them at 100 yards in the woods and try it. That is stupid. Like the previous poster, I have jumped them like rabbits and taken them.

[MikeRussell]

Where I hunt in Louisiana is all fairly dense, with a few areas along the pipelines where you can see out to 500yrds. My go to brush/intermediate range hunting rifle for the last 5yrs has been an AR15 in 6.8SPC with a 16in barrel and midlength gas system with a 3-9x50 scope. It's taken deer at close range all the way out to 400yrds. It shoulders fast, is light, and is very accurate.

[tahunua001]

there is no caliber restriction in idaho. the only restriction is that rimfire cartridges are not allowed. you could hunt with a 204 ruger if you wanted. with that said, heavy brush is a pain to navigate with most guns over your shoulder. you either need a gun with a shorter barrel, or the forward sling swivel needs to be higher up the barrel. a lever action carbine would be a great gun, 30-30, 44 mag, or 45 colt would be great cartridges in that setup. for bolt actions, a shorter compact like a ruger M77 compact would do wonders in something like a 243 or 7.62x39mm.

with that said. I've done brush hunting with obeselete military carbines like the type 44 arisaka and 1895 steyr carbine where the sling swivels run higher on the barrel and I have little difficulty but I wouldn't recommend 6.5 japanese or 8x56R unless you are an avid reloader and don't mind goofballs.

[JD0x0]

Seems like a bullpup type rifle would make a great 'brush gun' less length, without sacrificing barrel length.
I believe the MSAR has a bullpup in 300blackout, and Steyr is rumored to be releasing the AUG in .300BLK.

As we know .300blackout is pretty much the ballistic twin of .30-30 and 7.62x39, so pretty much any game that you find the .30-30 suitable for, the .300BLK should work equally well. You also have semi auto capabilities incase you ever need a follow up which gives you an advantage over bolt and lever guns. Throw a reflex or red dot sight on it, and you've now got better visibility than with irons, and no 'over magnification' for closer shots.

The MSAR's are 26.5-27.5'' in length, total. That's with a 16.5 or 18.5'' barrel, which is a few inches shorter than an M4 with the stock retracted and 16'' bbl. It's also over half a foot shorter than a Henry lever action 'carbine' with 16.125'' bbl and the even smaller Henry lever action, 'Youth rifle'

[tahunua001]

um, not intending to start a peeing match but...
300 BLK is the twin of 30-30 and 7.62x39? no.
30-30 and 7.62x39 aren't really twins themselves. 30-30 normally uses bullets in the 170gr range while 7.62x39mm uses almost exlusively a 123gr bullet. both travel about the same muzzle velocity give or take a hundred FPS but the energy that a 30-30 has at the muzzle and maintains to 200 yards is far superior to 7.62x39. one may argue that most 30-30s use a flat tip or round nosed bullet that has a lower ballistic coefficient of a spitzer from a 7.62x39 but lever evolution ammo and other lever action safe spitzer type designs really allow the 30-30 to shine and really overtake the 7.62x39.

with all that said. 300 BLK was developed, and is primarily marketed as a SBR/suppressor friendly cartridge. it uses a heavy bullet of similar weight to 30-30 but at much lower velocities than your average off the wall 30-30 or 7.62x39 hunting load. hand loaders can overcome this by loading lighter bullets and pushing them to the limits and essentially equal a 7.62x39 but if a person does not reload it will never equal a 7.62x39 and regardless will never equal a 30-30.

[jimbob86]

300 BLK is the twin of 30-30 and 7.62x39? no.

+1.

300BLK < 7.62x39 < .30/30 in terms of muzzle energy.

300BLK gets a 125gr bullet to 2200 f/sec, if loaded hot.

7.62x39 gets a 123gr bullet to 2400, if loaded hot.

.30/30WIN gets a 170 gr bullet to 2200, or a 150gr bullet to 2400, if loaded hot.

[JD0x0]

I'd rather not start a peeing match either.

With that said, it should be noted that .300BLK and 7.62x39 loads are typically chrono'd with 16'' barrels while most 30-30 loads are chrono'd with 20-24'' barrel, which is where some of the velocity difference comes from, it does have more powder capacity than both, though. Also, the Lever evolution bullets are nowhere near as streamlined as the .310 and .308 projectiles available for the .300 and x39, considering their weight. They're more streamlined than the classic .30-30 projectiles, but the ogive is still pretty short, giving the bullet a somewhat 'stubby' nose. The 160 grain FTX(G1 .330) barely has a higher BC than the .310 SST (G1 .295) despite a significant weight advantage. The 140 grain monoflex, has an inferior BC (G1 .277) despite having a weight and diameter advantage, as well. 125 grain .308 Accubond has a G1 BC of .366

You are correct that, if you want to venture away from the 125 grain bullets (in .300blk), which I believe are available in factory loads, but you'd have to hand load if you want something different. Anyway a 125 grain soft point fired at 2200fps should be just fine inside 100 yards, for deer.

.30/30WIN gets a 170 gr bullet to 2200, or a 150gr bullet to 2400, if loaded hot.

I just did a quick web search for 30-30 hand loads, and could only find one load just a hair above 2300fps with a 150 grain projectile. I should note that I was looking at 20'' barrel loads. A barrel that's 4'' shorter would likely have significantly less velocity, and wouldn't be too far off from some 7.62x39 150 grain loads, which can exceed 2200fps with hand loads, in a 16'' barrel.

7.62x39 load data

150 Sierra IMR IMR-4198 FPS 2233
150 Sierra Norma N-200 FPS 2314

Source: http://www.loaddata.com/members/sear...loading%20Data

Sorry didn't mean to drag this off topic, I just don't think down range it's going to make a huge difference and it should make a suitable 'brush gun' cartridge, if people believe the .30-30 is sufficient.

[tahunua001]

I just did a quick web search for 30-30 hand loads, and could only find one load just a hair above 2300fps with a 150 grain projectile

hodgdon lists a 150gr load with a max load of 2512FPS and another with a max of 2409fps(with 24" barrels).

they also list 7.62x39 as tested with a 24 inch barrel and the hottest load with a 125gr bullet is 2404FPS, 150 has a maximum listed 2192FPS.

sorry, they don't have published 300 BLK data so I can't see how that stacks up but my comments were really geared towards factory ammo anyway where 300 blk is normally loaded with 208-240gr ammo unless you are buying match ammo when people just load it up with their standard 147gr 30 cal match bullet. of the lightweight, hunting ammo I've been able to find, remington hog hammer 110grs are traveling a blazing 2400fps while gorrilla brand 125grs are loaded to 2200fps. switching gears to 30-30 160gr leverevolution is going 2400fps while a 170gr federal vitalshok is going 2200fps, a pretty big difference in energy.

[jimbob86]

I just did a quick web search for 30-30 hand loads, and could only find one load just a hair above 2300fps with a 150 grain projectile.

Dunno how extensive your search was .... my Lee 2nd ed. lists more than a dozen 150gr loads above 2300 f/sec .... 33gr of H335 worked for me.

[Art Eatman]

When you're talking ranges of 30 to 50 yards in thick cover, one's ability to get on target "instanter" and fire an accurate shot is the main requisite. This is helped by the proverbial "light and handy" firearm. In this case, almost any cartridge will suffice, although I'd not choose a .32-20.

Pragmatically, I'd want enough cartridge such that a less-than-perfect hit would at least put the deer on the ground and allow a follow-up coup de grace shot. For that reason I'd go with a .30-30 type of power level; maybe even more.

Which, of course, IMO means pick your shot or pass up the "maybe-not" sort.

[Hawg]

Another vote for 30-30. I'd replace the rear sight with a full buckhorn so you can use it as a ghost ring.

[Panfisher]

Not all running or moving deer shot opportunities are created equal, I have taken several deer on the run/move and passed on many more. Its a decision that is made in an instant in on more than one occasion my instincts reacted with the rifle hitting my shoulder even though I never took the shot. Not all short firearms are created equal either, the comment about the rifle being quick and "instanter" to the shoulder is dead on, I wouldn't be able to get a bull-pup type rifle to my shoulder nearly as fast as I could a plain jane Rem 700. Partly because of a lot of years living with a Rem700, and because each of us is built a little differently. I shot a deer one time with my old 700 in .280 Rem as it was feeding in a little creek bottom about 75 yards away, at the shot it bolted toward me and started up little notch that lead out into an open area, I cycled the bolt and waited for him to appear, never came up. Died half way up the bank. Went back to where I was standing later to recover my brass (yeah I'm one of those guys) I knew exactly where I was standing next to a big bale of hay. No empty brass to be found, finally stuck my hand in my jacket pocket and there was the empty, I know I never picked it up off the ground, somewhere along the line I caught it and put it in my pocket (yeah I actually pacticed it a little after reading a story about Rick Jamison) but never intentionally did it while hunting. That is something that goes along with a lot of use and familiarity with the platform. I love a nice lever action but for me, it just isn't as fast to the shot, but that is me, my AR love it but can't mount/shoot it as quick either, doesn't mean it is or is not the right tool for someone else just not me at this point.

[Hawg]

Not all running or moving deer shot opportunities are created equal

The original post was heavy brush so its a moot point. In places like this you can pretty much forget a running shot.

[Longshot4]

My brush gun is a browning BLR in 358win. What I require is a short rifle with a bullet that will hold together if I do hit wood. I have gone through a 10" cedar and killed deer behind it. It was a 75 yd. shot. I like a 1-4 Lepold on low setting I can handle a running deer at 10 ft.

[Gunplummer]

Longshot4, how refreshing to see somebody else with real experience with a "Brush gun". I sent a 7x57 140 gr SP right through a green maple tree that was about 8" thick. I was swinging on a running deer and the tree just happened to be there about 15 feet in front of me. I get tired of armchair experts talking about "The pegboard test". I never saw a pegboard in the woods. My Buddy shotgunned a deer and the slug hit a tree first. He actually found pieces of wood in the deer when he cut it up.

[green_MTman]

i used to have a neighbor who knew little about guns.he shot a bear at 30 yards in the neck and it didnt kill him.with a 30-30 why not go for a heart shot,not to mention go and buy the 170gr as well.

he is the greatest hunter i have ever met.he could track a deer for hours and he knew every place in the area that had what for animals.he knew where the deer where and knew where the bears where(just didnt know how to kill one with a 30-30).he could read the signs of the woods better than anyone i ever met.

its all about tracking deer and in the off season watching deer in the bushes,forget guns

[hartcreek]

A 12 gage, some lever action but you also said you were planning on packing a hand gun too so if you are planning on packing a .357 or .44 magnum you could just hunt with a handgun.