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Old October 17, 2020, 01:56 PM   #1
CAPMJUSTICE
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Best pistol for childrens church security

I want to maximize:

1. SAFETY, no light triggers, I'm looking for DOA OR DA/SA

2. CALIBER THAT IS ACCURATE AND WONT OVERPENETRATE, a caliber with low recoil for accuracy and penetration that is "just" good enough while avoiding overpenetration.

3.MAXIMIZING CONCEALABILITY WHILE STILL HAVING A FULL GRIP, I dont want to scare away parents because I printed too much but I want a full grip for maximized accuracy, so no pocket pistols where the pinky hangs off and the sights are terrible

these are the most important factors for me and I would appreciate some input. I'm leaning towards something like a kahr ct380 and ppks and other similar pistols. Sensitive subject here I know and I would like some input please. I like the kahr but would like something with second strike, hence the ppks consideration.

Last edited by CAPMJUSTICE; October 17, 2020 at 02:09 PM.
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Old October 17, 2020, 02:40 PM   #2
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What gun do you shoot best with in any kind of realistic practice?

That would be my chocie.
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Old October 17, 2020, 02:42 PM   #3
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Walther PP in .380
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Old October 17, 2020, 02:55 PM   #4
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Ruger LCR (revolver) in .38 Special. Use light bullets (125 grain HP's) or soft wadcutters if you are concerned about over-penetration.

An almost full sized pistol I like is the CZ-82 in 9mm Mak, although I can't remember offhand how the safety works. The CZ-83 is basically the same gun and is available in several chamberings including .380

Get whatever you shoot well in a not-too-powerful cartridge, and get a good holster for it. Everything else should fall into place
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Old October 17, 2020, 03:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
What gun do you shoot best with in any kind of realistic practice?

That would be my chocie.
Well I’m trained in full size da/sa combat pistols but maximizing concealment was a request of the pastor and I’d like to honor that
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Old October 17, 2020, 03:26 PM   #6
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Its all about your additude and how you dress.
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Old October 17, 2020, 03:28 PM   #7
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Walther PP in .380
I’m certainly considering the walther, how’s the accuracy?
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Old October 17, 2020, 06:30 PM   #8
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To ME, a natural pointer, decocker/safety, thin, all steel so good recoil mitigation.
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Old October 17, 2020, 06:31 PM   #9
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S&W Shield9 2.0 (1.0 would be just fine as well, but might need to install an Apex trigger).

It's what I usually carry to church. Or my Ruger 1911 CMD in 9mm. Just as easy to conceal, 2 more rounds, and a lot more accurate past 10 yards.
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Old October 17, 2020, 06:39 PM   #10
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maximizing concealment was a request of the pastor and I’d like to honor that
Simple and easy, don't go for a "mini pistol" with all its drawbacks, just change the way you dress so a decent size gun doesn't show.

Maybe not convenient or stylish, but what matters more, the way you look or having the better tool for the job IF it ever is needed?
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Old October 17, 2020, 06:48 PM   #11
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Well, just want to say that the Kahr has a trigger pull in weight and manual of arms very similar to that of the Glock or any other striker-fired pistol.

Would you consider a striker fired pistol?

Given what you've mentioned, I'd say Sig Sauer P239 in 9mm would be a good bet.
A P228 or P229 is thicker but would also be very good. HK P30 or P30SK.

I'd mention Glock 19, 26, 48, 43x as well if you're willing to reconsider a striker-fired option.

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Old October 17, 2020, 06:48 PM   #12
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The holster makes a difference in concealment and printing too. I can hide a full size 1911 in the right holster. In an Uncle Mike's thick padded nylon holster I looked like I had 2 guns on my hip. Look into Safariland and Galco to start. Some other good ones are out there. Perhaps a few more will be mentioned soon.
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Old October 17, 2020, 07:54 PM   #13
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I’m certainly considering the walther, how’s the accuracy?
Accuracy ought to be exceptional due to the fixed barrel design.

That being said, I would recommend the PPK/S over the PP, simply because the PPK/S is still in production so you can get a new one and won't have to worry about messing up a vintage PP or risk it end up rusting in an evidence locker and having some case number etched into the slide.

The PPK/S essentially just a PP with the slide/frame of the PPK, so you have the exact same grip as the PP, but it's lighter in weight overall. Also, the new models have been upgraded with an improved feed ramp which makes JHPs feed more reliably, as well as an extended beavertail which prevents slide bite.
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Old October 17, 2020, 07:57 PM   #14
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My vote would be for a CZ-75 Compact.

S&W Shield would be on the list on possible contenders for the runner-up slot.
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Old October 17, 2020, 08:04 PM   #15
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My vote would be for a CZ-75 Compact.
+1 Mine too.
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Old October 17, 2020, 08:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
CAPMJUSTICE I want to maximize:
2. CALIBER THAT IS ACCURATE AND WONT OVERPENETRATE, a caliber with low recoil for accuracy and penetration that is "just" good enough while avoiding overpenetration.
.380 out of a pocket pistol will often have more perceived recoil than 9x19 out of a larger framed pistol. If that .380 is blowback design then even more so.




Quote:
3.MAXIMIZING CONCEALABILITY WHILE STILL HAVING A FULL GRIP, I dont want to scare away parents because I printed too much
Don't wear clothing that prints. It's not difficult to dress for concealment. And fear of scaring people by printing? Not likely they would know what it is that is printing anyways.



Quote:
but I want a full grip for maximized accuracy, so no pocket pistols where the pinky hangs off and the sights are terrible

these are the most important factors for me and I would appreciate some input. I'm leaning towards something like a kahr ct380 and ppks and other similar pistols.
The first bolded part describes the second bolded part to a T.





Quote:
Sensitive subject here I know and I would like some input please. I like the kahr but would like something with second strike, hence the ppks consideration.
I've owned both and both would be the last I would choose.
The first would be a Glock 19 or other medium sized 9x19 pistol.
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Old October 17, 2020, 08:23 PM   #17
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I have a Sig Sauer P230 in 380 and like it a lot . It is my winter carry gun very accurate and ease to just put in a pocket .
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Old October 17, 2020, 08:41 PM   #18
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Well I’m trained in full size da/sa combat pistols but maximizing concealment was a request of the pastor and I’d like to honor that
Concealment would be a secondary objective, IMO. If I am reading correctly, your role is that of security for a place of worship. The choice is not for CCW but to protect others. So, carry what you were trained with... Full size duty weapon... G17, G19, Sig 320, Sig 226...etc...
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Old October 17, 2020, 08:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactical Jackalope View Post
Well, just want to say that the Kahr has a trigger pull in weight and manual of arms very similar to that of the Glock or any other striker-fired pistol.

Would you consider a striker fired pistol?

Given what you've mentioned, I'd say Sig Sauer P239 in 9mm would be a good bet.
A P228 or P229 is thicker but would also be very good. HK P30 or P30SK.

I'd mention Glock 19, 26, 48, 43x as well if you're willing to reconsider a striker-fired option.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I was under the impression that Kahr’s were around 7lbs and had more creep than other strikers that have typically 5lbs or even less with the new sigs and the like. 7lbs is still a little light for me but I thought it and the extra creep was enough to make it “officially DOA”. I just have too many reservations, and even first hand accounts from personal connections who have lots of experience, about light triggers to be comfortable With them, especially around graspy handed children. Plus da/sa is my training background so why retrain?

Last edited by CAPMJUSTICE; October 17, 2020 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Misspend
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:01 PM   #20
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Springfield XDe 3.3 9mm DA/SA with thumb safety decocker 8+1
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward Allusion
Concealment would be a secondary objective, IMO. If I am reading correctly, your role is that of security for a place of worship. The choice is not for CCW but to protect others. So, carry what you were trained with... Full size duty weapon... G17, G19, Sig 320, Sig 226...etc...
You haven't had much dealings with church internal politics, have you? The pastor may have to deal with a board of deacons or elders. Keeping a firearm concealed may be the trade-off to get any armed security. We don't know, and it's not our place to ask. The criterion presented was that concealment is a requirement. IMHO, responses that start off with "Don't worry about concealment ..." aren't answering the question, and are worthless in the context of this discussion.

A good friend of mine is the de facto head of the security team at his church. The pastor has given him an impossible assignment: make the church safe, but we don't want armed security.

Yeah, they really do think that way.
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
You haven't had much dealings with church internal politics, have you? The pastor may have to deal with a board of deacons or elders. Keeping a firearm concealed may be the trade-off to get any armed security. We don't know, and it's not our place to ask. The criterion presented was that concealment is a requirement. IMHO, responses that start off with "Don't worry about concealment ..." aren't answering the question, and are worthless in the context of this discussion.

A good friend of mine is the de facto head of the security team at his church. The pastor has given him an impossible assignment: make the church safe, but we don't want armed security.

Yeah, they really do think that way.
I’m not official clergy or anything but this is kinda the impression I’m getting. Concealment seems to be the compromise. My pastors literal words were “ look I support this but we need to make sure someone could go to church here for 20 years and never know there were guns in the building “
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:49 PM   #23
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Have you considered a shoulder rig or undercover undershirt holster? I often carry a Sig229 in the undercover undershirt holder (see pic below), and a shoulder rig will alloy you to carry a more substantial and likely more accurate gun, such as a Glock 19, full size M&P, etc.


https://op2.0ps.us/200-200-ffffff/op...overnor-02.jpg


https://www.511tactical.com/media/ca...=400&width=400
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:52 PM   #24
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I can't recommend a PP, terrible DA and not as reliable as others.
A Sig P230, P232, or CZ 82 if you just must .380.
Better a 9mm with light fast JHP. My P225 is pretty flat and a P239 is somewhat modernized. Compact CZs shoot well if you will dress to cover the thicker butt.
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
.380 out of a pocket pistol will often have more perceived recoil than 9x19 out of a larger framed pistol. If that .380 is blowback design then even more so.





Don't wear clothing that prints. It's not difficult to dress for concealment. And fear of scaring people by printing? Not likely they would know what it is that is printing anyways.




The first bolded part describes the second bolded part to a T.






I've owned both and both would be the last I would choose.
The first would be a Glock 19 or other medium sized 9x19 pistol.
I can get my pinky on both the ct380 and the ppks, maybe you’re confusing the ct380 with the cw380 and the ppks with the ppk standard? My hands aren’t small but they aren’t so big that I cant fit my pinky on anything that isn’t full size. I’m sure the Glock 19 is accurate but it doesn’t satisfy my safety or size requirements. But if you have bad accuracy experience with the walther or kahr that you’d like to share I’ll certainly take that into consideration.
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