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Old November 26, 2007, 10:03 PM   #1
velocette
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Single action .45 LC

I'm considering the purchase of a single action revolver in .45 LC. There are seveal manufacturors that I have noted. Taurus, Uberti, Beretta, Colt, Ruger and a couple of others.
My goal is a revolver that is gonna get shot and hopefully shot a lot. I do not want a high priced safe queen or wall hanger.
Any suggestions as to a good quality shooter that will last a long time? Accuracy is important.

Your suggestions will be welcome.

Roger
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Old November 26, 2007, 10:49 PM   #2
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The Ruger Blackhawk is about as rugged as they come. It's a modern single action revolver, with rugged lockwork, springs that are harder to break than the older style, and a good bit more steel. It is the only one of those you listed that has adjustable sights for target work. It doesn't look quite like a traditional Colt sixgun, and doesn't operate quite like one either. The differences in operation make it safe to load all six chambers and carry that way, assuming the revolver is operating properly.

The Ruger Vaquero is a little smaller and looks like the traditional Colt. It has fixed sights. Because it doesn't have the extra steel the Blackhawk does, it's not vastly stronger than a traditional Colt, if it is any stronger at all. But it has the same lockwork design as the Blackhawk, with the advantages of safety and durability.

The rest that you mentioned are more or less clones of the original Colt Peacemaker. They can be durable if set up properly, but they're never going to be as tough as the Ruger. They look, handle, and operate pretty much the same as the original Colt. There are some buts and maybes involved, but in general you don't want to load all six chambers with these revolvers. Carry them with five cartridges and the hammer down on the sixth, empty, chamber.

(Some of them have modified lockwork with what's called a transfer bar, and that would allow you to carry with all six chambers loaded if you wanted, but you'd still have to lower the hammer VERY CAREFULLY onto a loaded chamber as part of the loading process. You'd better not slip.)

Uberti and Beretta are the same company now. The Berettas are Ubertis finished to a very high standard. Many of the other companies you'll run into have their products made by Uberti, or buy Uberti parts. I think Taurus makes all their own. I also believe the premium brands like Colt and USFA make their own too.

I don't want to give Ruger an unqualified recommendation. I seem to remember reading they had some trouble with getting the proper throat diameter for the chambers. That's bad for accuracy. You might want to browse the forums and search online for more information on that subject. I can't remember where to point you for that. Sorry.
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Old November 26, 2007, 10:51 PM   #3
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Well, Don't buy a Colt.

They are the real single action revolver, but it'll cost you so much you'll be afraid to shoot it.

The Cimmarons, Ubertis and Berettas are all copies of the original Colt. They share the manual of arms and the weaknesses (mostly flat springs) of the original Colt and they are fun to shoot. As far as I can tell, they are well made (to be honest, I've only owned Ubertis, but know guys who have Cimmarons) and reasonable - which is not to say inexpensive - in price. I believe Beretta now owns Uberti, I could be wrong.

I know nothing of the Taurus, so I'll pass.

The Rugers are the strongest of the bunch and the most reliable. However, they are markedly different - internally - from the original SA design. From a shooter's point of view, they are improved and far better than the original. However, if you seek a revolver of the true Colt SA design, this is not it.

Take your pick, depending on what you seek and what you are going to do.
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Old November 27, 2007, 05:36 PM   #4
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Ruger Blackhawk

Rugged, accurate, adjustable sights, good trigger (that can be improved to excellent, if you want), modern transfer bar design that allows safe carry with 6 rounds. No half cock notch, just open the loading gate to free the cylinder for loading/unloading. Capable of taking loads hotter than are safe in a Colt (or clone). Blued or stainless. Not your GreatGranDaddy's Colt. Not meant to be.

If you want old west look and function, don't get a Ruger. If you want the best "working" gun for actual use, get a Ruger, unless you can afford Freedom Arms. I can, and I still get Rugers.
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Old November 27, 2007, 05:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
I've only owned Ubertis, but know guys who have Cimmarons)
Cimarrons are Ubertis they just have a little better finish(usually)and the stampings are roll stamped like the originals and the only place you'll see Ubertis name is under the ejector rod housing. I have two, a Cimarron and a Uberti Cattleman imported by Stoeger. They're both excellent shooters and I haven't had any problems out of either. Both shoot dead on laterally and low vertically allowing you to file the front sight down to get it where you want it when you find the load you want to use. If you want historical accuracy get a Uberti. If you want something that looks kinda like a Colt but functions nothing like one get a Ruger Vaquero. New Vaq's are about the same size as a Colt but won't take heavy loads. Old Vaq's are bigger than a Colt and will take heavy loads. If you care nothing about historical accuracy and want heavy loads and adjustable sights get a Ruger Blackhawk.
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Old November 27, 2007, 07:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
The Ruger Vaquero is a little smaller and looks like the traditional Colt.
The Vaquero is a full size model built essentially on the same lg frame as the BH and SBH's but without the adjustable sights. The New Vaquero is built on the smaller medium sized frame. Two different models. The New Vaquero is in production, the Vaquero is not.
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Old November 27, 2007, 07:11 PM   #7
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Here's one off the beaten path: STI Texican.

Cost about what a Colt or upper end USFA costs but is specifically built as a (CAS) race gun. Doug Turnbull case color but with blued parts short of what would be described as "highly polished".

Nobody, but nobody, would ever have the heuvos to post a thread "should I shoot it?" concerning a race gun even with a Turnbull case color job.

Two caveats:

First, there's only one review that I'm aware of: Gunblast

Second, the wait is currently longish - I believe around 16 weeks.

Personally, I hope it does well in the market - the upper end of SAA options aren't real numerous even if one includes Freedom Arms, which isn't really "true to pattern". USFA was needing competition and it'd be nice to see some materialize. Colts lately appear to shoot quite well but far too many are rat-holed in the back of some dark safe.

I'm intrigued by the STI as it's one SAA pattern that will, I hope, never derive value from the pejorative "unturned" and will never, ever be shipped with a chastity belt (wire tie) in place.
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Old December 1, 2007, 01:45 PM   #8
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Best SA

For me there's only one choice for a .45 single action - Ruger Blackhawk.
Though I have other guns, a .45 Blackhawk is my night stand gun. Say what you want about a SD handgun, it's the ONLY weapon I've owned which ALWAYS goes bang every time it's fired. Plus, I have a great deal of confidence in the .45 "long" colt.
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Old December 1, 2007, 02:11 PM   #9
Ballenxj
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There are a few choices when it comes to the 45 LC, including Colt, but to me the Ruger Black Hawk is the only way to go. I regret ever selling mine.
-Bruce
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Old December 1, 2007, 02:41 PM   #10
Edward429451
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I want a 45 Colt also. Traditional means little to me for my purposes (shooter), but I want high strength for monster loads, rounded trigger guard so it doesn't beat up my middle knuckle inder recoil like my SBH, possibly a round butt, and 4-1/2 to 5.5" barrel, and safe to carry a full cylinder beit 5 or 6 round.

What model / make am I describing here? With all the different models out there, I'm kinda at a loss to know for sure and don't want to accidently buy one where I have to load light for it. I don't plan on only shooting monster loads in it, but want the strength in reserve in case I may want to load her up some..
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Old December 1, 2007, 02:53 PM   #11
Ballenxj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward429451
I don't plan on only shooting monster loads in it, but want the strength in reserve in case I may want to load her up some
Well, Look in one of the Speer Loading Manuals under 45 Colt, then see which one had their own set of loading charts for higher pressures (along with Thompson Center).
Give up? OK, Here's a hint;
RUGER BLACKHAWK.
-Bruce
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Old December 1, 2007, 03:18 PM   #12
Edward429451
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Don't all the BH's have squared trigger guards?

I'm trying not to have to buy a Bisley frame to go with it just for the trigger guard. Is there a specific discontinued (used) model with these features that I could look for? (it doesn't have to be new)

thx
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Old December 1, 2007, 03:27 PM   #13
Ballenxj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward429451
Don't all the BH's have squared trigger guards?
Negative. The "Super" Blackhawks did. The Ruger 44 Mag was a Super Blackhawk as well. Personally, I liked the grip frame of the Super, and installed one on my old 45 LC.
-Bruce
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Old December 1, 2007, 03:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Don't all the BH's have squared trigger guards?
The squared trigger gaurd is only used on 7 1/2" and 10 1/2" SBH's. I'd would have to say again, I'd opt for a .45 Colt Ruger Bisley right from the get go.
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Old December 1, 2007, 04:17 PM   #15
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Monster loads

The only way I have found to keep the trigger guard from rapping my middle finger with "monster loads" is to use the oversize grips that fill in some behind the triggerguard. I use Pachmyrs on my Blackhawk .45 Colt, and have recently put a set on my Vaquero .44 Mag. Wood grips with the same shape would likely do the same thing, but my personal preference is for the rubber, which also helps tame the muzzle rise. Tame only, nothing will (or should) eliminate it, but it helps me not to have the barrel move past 90 degrees on firing.

As far as I know, all Blackhawks and Vaqueros have the round trigger guards. Only the Super Blackhawk (.44 Mag) wears the square back (Dragoon) style trigger guard.
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Old December 1, 2007, 07:03 PM   #16
Jim March
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You need to make three core decisions:

1) Do I want a transfer bar safety or not? A transfer-bar gun is safe to carry fully loaded, as it is "drop safe" and can't go bang if the hammer is jarred. Traditional Colt SAAs must be carried five-up, hammer down on an empty chamber. What safeties exist are too primitive to trust.

Transfer bar guns: ALL Rugers produced after 1972 (and older ones have a free transfer bar retrofit available). The Beretta "Stampede" series (incl. Bisley, Marshall variants) are transfer bar. The Taurus Gaucho, and the Freedom Arms '97 series. The '97 in 357 and smaller calibers is a sixgun, in 41, 44 and 45 it's a five-shot (literally only five holes). All Magnum Research "BFR" revolvers are transfer-bar equipped.

"Five up only guns": All Colt SAAs, all Ubertis, all Armi San Marco SAs, all Pietas, the STI Texican, all USFA single actions revolvers. Anything Italian unless it's a Beretta.

(The Freedom Arms '83 ultra-large-frame SAs have a hammer-block safety. Opinions differ as to whether or not it's capable of safe fully-loaded carry. I haven't examined one closely enough to form an opinion, just be aware that it's a "borderline case".)

2) How much power do I want to run? Post-WW2 Colt SAAs and their various clones/near-clones set up in 45LC can handle 200gr jacketed slugs at 1,100fps or 255gr hardcast at 1,000fps. Past those power levels in that caliber and you're into "Ruger large-frame" territory: the Ruger SAs built on a "44Magnum-class frame" include all Blackhawks post-'72 EXCEPT the 50th Anniversary 357, all SuperBlackHawks, all "Original Vaqueros" (or "Old Vaqueros"). The 50th Anniversary 357 and the New Vaquero are built on a smaller Colt SAA-size platform and should stick with Colt-compatible loads. (In 357 that means all factory loads - you can shoot a lot more raw energy in 357 in an SAA-class gun than you can 45LC because of the thicker cylinder walls.)

3) Do I want fixed or adjustable sights? If adjustable, consider Ruger Blackhawks - a few non-transfer-bar adjustable-sight guns are out there but they're not common. Oh, and the Freedom Arms '97 can be had adjustable.

---

The USFA and STI are likely the best of the "ultra-traditional" fixed-sight Colt SAA clones. Damn fine guns.

The Freedom Arms '97 and it's bigger '83 ancestor (named for year of intro) aren't close clones of any particular SA but their quality is just incredible and their accuracy is legendary.

The Rugers are hard to go wrong with, although as a production gun some lemons are seen - the "the checkout" as stickied top of this sub-forum. Also note that Rugers are easy to modify: lots of aftermarket support and a high degree of parts compatibility across Ruger product lines. Want a New Vaquero with a SuperBlackHawk hammer for less thumb reach? $35 at Brownell's gets you the hammer, drops right in. Grip frames, triggers, hammers, ejector parts, swap stuff around like it was tinkertoys. Way cool. NOTE: the "mid frame" Rugers so far are the New Vaquero and 50th 357 Blackhawk - they're "Colt size", similar heft and feel, not as strong as the big Rugers but their quality control is on average *higher* than on any previous Ruger SAs since the early '70s. If you can live within their power limits, they're very nice.

Quality control complaints on the Gaucho are running VERY high - I would say "avoid".

The Beretta is kind of neat if you want a "feel, look and operating drill" as close to a Colt as possible yet still have a transfer bar.

Quality control at Uberti is quite good, maybe a tiny step below Ruger which is an improvement over years past. If you're on a budget their "Millennium" line with a plain finish is a good buy as long as you can deal with five-up carry. Beretta now owns Uberti so the Stampede series is just Ubertis with high QC specs and a transfer-bar grafted on.

The BFR is for specialized needs. Some of the best deals in "handcannon class" heavy thumpers are there. Good guns.

---

My SA, a gun I dearly love:

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Old December 1, 2007, 07:09 PM   #17
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Buy any one of these and you will be thrilled with it

I would save the SBH frame guns for .44mag and not .45colt. They are a bit heavy to be a fun .45colt for the range.









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Old December 1, 2007, 10:04 PM   #18
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Ruger Bisley, hands down, look no further. Built like a tank, recoil friendly grip, and why would you NOT want a transfer bar safety. Ask that guy that sued Freedom Arms if he'd like his leg back or the $375 grand he won in a suit 'cause his slicker caught his fully loaded .454 in the holster. If you want a good shooter, that you can shoot forever, get a Ruger.
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