Tips for deescalating conflict?

[Mokumbear]

I thought my skills at deescalating/avoiding conflict were pretty good until last week.

I was flown out of state by a new employer for training.

The job seems great but they assigned me to a trainer who was an alcoholic.
I mean, when he picked me up at the airport before noon on a Sunday, I could smell alcohol on his breath.

I initially dismissed it because he's an adult and I didn't yet know what a negative effect it had on his personality once he became really hammered.

He would be intoxicated every evening by dinner time.

Thing came to a head on Friday, at the end of the work week.
He purchased his 2nd bottle of 80 proof liquor of the week on the way back to the hotel in addition to his apparently endless beer supply.

We went out to dinner and within minutes, things grew ugly.
To show you how intoxicated and irrational he was, it began with me asking for a recommendation for which type of crab to order at this crab restaurant because I only rarely order crab.

He launched into drunken rants and was being insulting and disrespectful towards me.

He eventually told me to get out of the restaurant and refused to drive me back to the hotel. Fortunately, he did not escalate things into violence.
I had been respectful to him all week but finally lost it and clearly and loudly told him exactly what I thought of him and then left the restaurant.

It took a week of "investigation" by HR but I was cleared of any wrongdoing and still have a job.

I was in a tough situation, in a strange place without a car to get out of there.

The only thing I think I could have done differently would have been to call a cab at the first sign that things were going bad.

Obviously, deescalating conflict with an angry, intoxicated alcoholic is not an easy matter.

I tried to deescalate things and sent him a text 5 minutes after I left the restaurant. I let him know that if he offered me a sincere apology once he sobered up, we could move forward. He never replied.

I texted him one more time as I was preparing to book a flight out and, again, no reply.

What would you have done?
If I am ever in this situation again, I want to know how to handle it better.

When this guy wouldn't drive me back to the hotel, I figured it was close enough that I could walk back. Unfortunately, not being familiar with the area I got lost and found myself on a busy 10 lane highway!
Realizing I was in danger, I called 911 and they quickly had the Highway Patrol out to assist me. I calmly explained what happened and asked for an incident report because I knew this would become an issue at work.

When I got back to the hotel, I talked to a childhood friend for a while on the phone to regain my composure. It's about 9 or 10pm and I decided that my personal safety might be in jeopardy because of the trainer's highly intoxicated and irrational behavior.

I contacted my manager and insisted on being flown home immediately.
I was in a cab at 3:15am and boarded a 5am flight home.

[Mike38]

Nothing personal, but you looked right over your first clue. When he picked you up at the airport with alcohol on his breath, you got in the vehicle. You lost right there.

I absolutely, positively, refuse to ride in a vehicle when the driver has been drinking. Also refuse to work with someone that has been drinking. My life is more important than a job.

The only way to deescalate a situation like this is to not put yourself in it.

[Mokumbear]

Not taking it personally at all.
I am posting here because I am trying to figure out how I could have had a better outcome. I am looking for feedback and advice.

This guy wasn't clearly intoxicated at the airport when he picked me up.
I thought it could have been just a couple drinks or perhaps still reeking from the previous night's drinking.

While his hands shook a couple of times in the AM and he was kind of grumpy until the coffee kicked in, he was sober during working hours.

He only became a problem by dinner time.
Per his own admission, his rather lame life on the road consisted of getting home early from work (we start early in my field), chain watching ESPN, drinking and going out for the occasional smoke.

I used to travel a lot for work on the road and there are more fun, healthier things to do than just that day in and day out.

I needed the job pretty badly.
My unemployment benefits had expired after 14 weeks, despite having worked with my previously employer for 10 years.

It was also a rare chance to get back into a field I enjoy that offers a tremendous amount of freedom. You essentially work with no supervision other than an occasional e-mail from a boss 100's of miles away I may never even meet.

In my state, I think you can't get a concealed carry license if you have two DUI's. Apparently not a concern for this trainer clown.

[Pond, James Pond]

This guy wasn't intoxicated at the airport when he picked me up.

That is probably not the case. If you could smell the alcohol on his breath, do you really think he would pass a breathalizer test by the police?

I think we can agree that the answer is NO WAY!!

So you got in the car with a drunk person. Perhaps not visibly so, but research shows that even a small amount of alcohol in the system can affect coordination functions. I'd have called the office there and then and said that their driver trainer has shown UI.

I will say that the flaw in this thread is that it is not firearms related. If you can build a case for how firearms are implicated it would probably be good.

[Mokumbear]

I think it's most certainly firearms related!

It's important to be able to deescalate a threatening situation so you are not forced to draw.

I think that's as firearms related as it comes.

I politely ask that the thread be allowed to continue.

BTW, put yourself in my shoes...
I'm a new hire and trying to make a good impression.
Usually that involves going along with the game plan and not making waves.

It didn't occur to me to fly all the way up there to tell my trainer I wasn't going to get in the car with him.

P.S. I didn't smell the alcohol until we were in the car and pulling away from the airport.

[Pgfins]

Well you should never get into an argument with anyone who's been drinking or who you certainly know is drunk. That's a no win situation and most certainly will escalate the situation. If you know he's drunk by dinner every night why in the world would you continue to have dinner with this guy. Not sure what job your doing but after you experience with him picking you up at the airport I would have avoided any personal time with him outside of the job, especially when it appears the very next day he was trashed by dinner. Sorry you had such a lousy experience with you job training.

[Mokumbear]

>Well you should never get into an argument with anyone who's been drinking or who you certainly know is drunk.
That's a no win situation and most certainly will escalate the situation.



Excellent point, I agree.
I don't usually encounter highly intoxicated individuals but that is definitely a takeaway from this incident.
I usually keep to myself and the people I do hang out with have been friends for a very long time and don't behave this way.
I should have quickly removed myself from the situation as soon as he got irrational/angry over simply being asked for his advice on crabs.

I'm a field tech and I have read that this occupation has a high rate of alcoholism.
I also realize now why a former hard drinking coworker was so difficult.
This was a couple of decades ago and we DID physically mix it up and he came up on the losing end, though larger, when I grabbed him by the throat and squeezed hard until he started to lose consciousness.
I didn't want to hurt/kill him so I released my grip.

He wasn't drunk at the time of the fight, but I think the negative effects on his personality lead to his aggression towards me. We made up and were friends for a while.

Drunks are bad news.
I saw one just before the trip get verbally confrontational with another library patron over access to one of the internet terminals.
I was armed and just kept my mouth shut.
I could smell liquor on that dude's breath, too.

If I have a couple of beers, I avoid driving and don't bother anyone, I just chill out. (Ha, ha... No beer "emoji" on Firing Line)

I was in a tough situation because I didn't have a car and there was only a
sandwich shop/convenience store within walking distance.

I never imagined that he would go beyond being somewhat obnoxious to irrational and borderline combative.

I'm actually surprised that he didn't escalate things to a physical confrontation. Job or no job, I have never been one to back down from
being physically threatened.

While he was significantly larger than me, I am quite sure I would have wiped the floor with his drunk (bleep).


My mind was focused on training and I admittedly didn't give enough thought to what was occurring.

At the risk of seeming unsociable, it might have been better to eat sandwiches and fruit I could pick up within walking distance for two weeks.

BTW, the state I visited has concealed carry reciprocity with mine.
I was going to bring my gun but didn't want to risk the trainer hear me declare it to the airline at the ticket desk.

I wouldn't have drawn it in this event because the situation didn't escalate to violence.

[Pond, James Pond]

I think it most certainly is firearms related!

It's important to be able to deescalate a threatening situation so you are not forced to draw.

I think that's as firearms related as it comes.

I politely ask that the thread be allowed to continue.

It's not a reproach, just a heads up given that guns had not been brought into the discussion in the OP. Mods will decide what stays open or not. I'd be happy to see the issue discussed, given that I took the time to respond.

BTW, put yourself in my shoes...
I'm a new hire and trying to make a good impression.
Usually that involves going along with the game plan and not making waves.

This aspect is a little off-topic, but actions early would have eliminated the situation you described. Let me put this in some context.

There was recently a thread about a person who felt the tone and content of a correspondent's emails to his workplace were such that he felt potentially at risk. Some responders advocated passing concerns on (as I did), others advocated carrying at work despite the risk of instant dismissal. In other words, threat to life and limb outweighed threat to employment. Ultimately, I think the OP in that thread handled it very well and I hope it all works out.

And here is my point in raising it for comparison: you are saying that you felt compelled to stay in the car with someone who was almost certainly DUI by some margin because of the threat to your employment and first impressions.

That, to my mind, is a far more clear and present danger to life and limb than a series of weird rambling emails.

It didn't occur to me to fly all the way up there to tell my trainer I wasn't going to get in the car with him.

Would you have agreed to fly all the way up there if you had been forewarned that your trainer would be plastered a lot of the time and still clearing ketones and other alcohol metabolites from his system as he drove you from the terminal?

You did eventually tell him what you thought and where to go and will probably have to report the situation to superiors now anyway, a few days down the line.
Will you omit the part about smelling alcohol on his breath when you let him drive you from the airport?
What if he had been pulled over and it later came up? How would that have looked to your new employers?

I don't know the answers and perhaps I wouldn't have the courage to practise what I preach, but enjoying the objectivity of detachment and hindsight I think staying in the car with a drunk driver is just a bad idea and is genuinely dangerous for your well being. Not having an accident was all down to luck and the skills of other drivers and we all know how good they are.

So, I sympathise with your predicament, but that is my answer to the situation: don't interact with someone unfit to do their job to begin with. The only person to whom you are doing a favour is that person.

[full case load]

I think a drunk's logic is only logical to themselves (or maybe another drunk). "Cat"footing around them and letting them think things are their idea is as close as I've ever come to deescalating any situation without some sort of violence. Best, if I'm able to avoid.

[Mokumbear]

Pond...

Actually, I had to file a very detailed report for HR to review.
I left NOTHING out starting with him picking me up at the airport drunk and driving very drunk one night covering everything that transpired that day until when I caught the cab at 3:15am.

I also tried to avoid any further conflict with this guy at the hotel that night.
He was on the same floor as myself.
When I had to go to the front desk, I slipped down the emergency stairs and walked down a flight to avoid running into this guy.

I was very clear/firm with HR that the trainer was solely to blame and I would not associate myself with a company that tolerated this kind of dangerous, disrespectful behavior.

Their investigation cleared me, but delayed my starting by a week.
I am hoping to pick back up Monday and complete my training with a local tech. I actually have about 15 years experience, I just need to learn their processes and how to use their proprietary software.

I might add, years ago at my last job, there was a very hostile woman and one day she made some remark about "going postal".
I immediately reported it to HR.

Security searched her bag as she left one day and I never heard her make threats again.

You just can't say things like that in today's workplace.

[44 AMP]

I think it most certainly is firearms related!

It's important to be able to deescalate a threatening situation so you are not forced to draw.

I think that's as firearms related as it comes.

I politely ask that the thread be allowed to continue.

I disagree. I do not find this thread firearms related, as written. No firearm is mentioned, anywhere that I see. CONFLICT resolution is not automatically firearms related, unless there is a firearm involved.

Doing what you can to defuse a situation "before you are forced to draw" is a topic worthy of discussion, but without a direct link to firearms involvement, I don't see that it meets the criteria for this forum.

Per your polite request, I will leave the thread open, for now. The topic is worthy of discussion, but does not meet our rules for discussion here.

Another moderator may feel differently and close the thread, and I feel, would be justified in doing so.

[Mokumbear]

I will respect the Moderators' call on this.

Thanks for at least allowing me to get some feedback.

[Pond, James Pond]

Good to hear it is all on record: I think honesty pays off more often than not in this kind of situation.

I'm glad that things worked out and that you've been able to continue working there. I should hope so too, given that he was the problem to begin with, but sometimes companies act strangely or unjustly.

In answer to your question about deescalating, having read your OP with the additional details added I'll add a couple more thoughts: In the restaurant, I think walking away is absolutely the best thing to do: no reasoning with a person who is drunk. On top of that, it let's him foot the bill!

Furthermore, I'd have called the police. From what you said about lifts to the hotel it sounds like he would have again, been behind the wheel while drunk. He will eventually maim or kill someone. He needs to be removed from the roads.

If the police could not/would not help you get back to the hotel under the circumstances then go to the restaurant owner, or the other businesses you mentioned and ask if they can call a cab or get you home for a fee.

[A pause for the COZ]

Tough call.. Some have suggested you complain after the 1st instance in the Car.
Although reporting the situation right away would have been the right course.
You would have been in a tough row to hoe.

Calling HR and stating " I refused to get in the car because he smelled of Alcohol"
HR would have investigated for sure. Most likely though, unless the guy had other complaints. You would have been branded as a complainer.
Not a good thing on your 1st day.
As it played out you were able to provide more than enough detail to support your case.

As for having to work with drunks.
Been there done that. With Hotels full of them.
I would just make excuses to not hang around them
" Sorry man cant go. Wife needs me to call her tonight on a conf call"
Some thing like that. Not going to hang out with drunks.
Dont have to de escalate then. Hang out with drunks and you will become an expert.

[Skans]

What would you have done?

I would have gotten out of the car at my first opportunity, just after he picked you up from the Airport! Then I would have immediately called my manager/supervisor, explained that a drunk just picked me up from the airport, discussed the situation and figure out what to do from there. No job is worth your life, and every time you get in the car with an alcoholic, you are playing Russian Roulette, with 5 in the cylinder and one empty!

No company that I know of would ever want one of their employees being driven around by an alcoholic customer. Knowingly placing someone in that position increase the company's liability beyond what would ordinarily be covered by worker's comp if you were injured or killed. In other words - MILLIONS straight off the company's bottom line...oh, and you won't be around to enjoy any of it. Anyway, I would have just suggested to your manager that they spring for a cheap rental car - that way you aren't tied to the hip of a volatile alcoholic for a week.

[leadcounsel]

Tough call.. Some have suggested you complain after the 1st instance in the Car.
Although reporting the situation right away would have been the right course.
You would have been in a tough row to hoe.

Calling HR and stating " I refused to get in the car because he smelled of Alcohol"
HR would have investigated for sure. Most likely though, unless the guy had other complaints. You would have been branded as a complainer.
Not a good thing on your 1st day.
As it played out you were able to provide more than enough detail to support your case.

Agree. Very hard situation to be in as the new guy and forced to associate with an irrational jerk.

I do see this as self defense related, and even guns related. Who knows how unstable this man is.

I think as you immediately learned, this guy is a bad apple with real problems and willing to drive drunk under those circumstances... I think that as soon as I realized he was toxic, I would have excused myself from associating with him at the earliest opportunity, and documented the information to HR.

Being branded as a complainer - dunno. HR will put it in your file and it actually can protect you later. It's weird how employment law (I'm not an employment lawyer, but do have some insights) works, and if you were later terminated you could have some "whistle blower" rights against retribution by the company for having filed a complaint. It's illogical, but we live in an era where the complainer establishes a case in his file and is nearly untouchable.

I see this in my line of work with sex assault "victims" that by complaining (even total fabrications) they become immune from any employment recourse.

To keep this on gun forum relevance, be very prepared for any retribution from this angry drunk towards you, watch your back if you complain, etc. Check out that other thread about carry at work too.

[kilimanjaro]

I think the combination of being the driver of a vehicle and visibly under the influence creates a situation where you are perfectly justified in asking him to wait for a moment while you get something, then call the cops and get him picked up for DUI.

Let the cops make the judgement about DUI, you don't have to do that. You do have a responsibility to protect yourself and your employer from harm, physical and legal.

He could be the boss's son and that won't protect him from a DUI or a vehicular homicide charge, nor will it protect the company from shelling out millions of bucks in legal settlements or damages.

De-escalation means walking away at the right time. Involving the police right away was the correct way to de-escalate the situation of a potentially drunk driver harming you or other innocents and exposing your company to big liability.

[buckhorn_cortez]

Getting back out of the car and alerting the airport police would have been the quickest and best move on your part. Airports have dedicated police and they're readily available 24 hours a day.

But, since it came as a complete surprise after getting into the vehicle, I can understand how you needed to assess the situation prior to a response - and that can take more time than immediately bailing out of the vehicle. Tough situation to walk into cold after an airplane trip.

The second thing to do would have been to report this ASAP to your immediate supervisor through both a phone call and an email or text message alerting him/her to the problem and asking for direction on how to proceed.

Phone calls can be disputed or "forgotten" - emails are on the server nearly forever.

As part of your call + email to your supervisor, you should have also told him/her that you were going to file a report with HR so that your supervisor was aware of the problem and not surprised by the HR report.

The only way to deescalate the problem would be to totally avoid the person after the training sessions so that you were not associating after hours.

Coming from an engineering background, I would probably have kept notes on the situation with dates / times so that I didn't have to rely totally on memory after-the-fact.

Having been at a dinner with a belligerent drunk on one occasion, I just went nearly silent and refused to engage in any type of conversation past one word answers and no comments or completely neutral responses back. It was an excruciating two hours and I ended up calling a cab to get back to my hotel.

[Mokumbear]

Thanks to all of you!
I get some of the best advice here!

I realize now that there are things that I could have done that would have probably prevented me from experiencing this conflict while not alienating the trainer too much and not being labeled as trouble/whiner by management.

If nothing else, the night he drove back from dinner highly intoxicated should have been the last night I went to dinner with him.

Sandwiches and fruit would have been far preferable to this mess!

Good news!
I start working locally Monday!

I am going to be very careful to do an excellent job and get along with the local tech I will be working with for just the 1st week to complete training.

I think he possibly doesn't drink due to his religion so at least I will be spared working with a drunk. Even if he does drink, I will pass on going out for any.

Going to stay focused on doing a good job.

Hey, you need money for guns and ammo, right!

[peggysue]

In my state we can carry in a bar and even have alcohol as long as not over .08...just like driving a car.

[Minorcan]

The best and in this case best way to deescalate would be to disengage. Once you suspected he was driving drunk, you should have asked him to pull over and gotten out of the car. Then I would follow the rest of the recommendations in this order;
1.) Call your supervisor and explain that reason you got out of the car was concern for your safety. No employer will think bad of you for trying to be safe.
2.) Tell your supervisor you are going to call the HR department right after you get off the phone.
3.) Ask your supervisor how he would like you to proceed.
4.) File a complaint for your safety and ask them to contact the local police and have the driver checked for DUI.
5.)
6.) Follow up both calls with an e-mail sticking only to facts and not opinions or emotional rants. (Not that you would rant)
7.) Call your supervisor back explain what was discussed with HR and ask how he would like you to proceed.
8.) Document your supervisor's response with a confirmatory e-mail.
9.) Thank both your supervisor and HR for helping to keep you safe in such a distressful situation.

I have worked around alcoholics and even supervised a functional alcoholic. You will not win in either situation. The best way to prevent escalation is to disengage as soon as you safely and legally can.

[Mokumbear]

I wish I had thought back 20 years ago when we were told if we went somewhere to work and illegal drugs were being used, we needed to leave immediately.

In reality, that never occurred and it seemed like a pretty unlikely scenario with our customers.

The only illegal drugs were in the evidence room of a police station my work took me to.
They had a pretty good number of pounds of weed after busting a grow house.
It actually made the papers. Your could smell it a 100' away from the evidence room!

I gently teased the cops that if they ordered out pizza for lunch, I would be concerned.

I wish I had remembered that and applied that concept to a an intoxicated trainer violating the law (and risking my life) by driving under the influence.

Fortunately, I am like the British children's book character, Paddington Bear.
I only mean well.
I "always" get in predicaments.
Things always work out for the best in the end.

[Mokumbear]

Peggy Sue...

As always, State laws vary.

In my State, if you are carrying, you may not sit at the bar.

You need to be seated at a table.

[briandg]

never beeen good at confrontations. I freeze up and get angry. Adrenaline starts pumping. Can't talk to them to work out problems.

[JimmyR]

In general, de-escalation for me involves voice control, body posture, and word choice.

Voice Control: When attempting to de-escalate, lower your voice. Speak softly and slowly, allowing yourself to be heard.

Body Posture: Relax your body, keep your arms either at your sides or in front of you. Avoid stiffening your back or crossing your arms. Try to keep a faint smile on your face.

Word Choice: Use non-judgemental words. Avoid blaming, threatening, or using profanity. Avoid jargon, unless you know it will be easily understood. Try to aim for a compromise, or some other form of mutually beneficial arrangement.