The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 21, 2018, 10:28 PM   #51
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,071
Quote:
hen you consider that simply needing to draw AND fire a gun in self defense is rare itself,
Gee, thanks! Now I don't have to carry anymore! Saved me a ton of money.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 21, 2018, 11:12 PM   #52
TruthTellers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
Gee, thanks! Now I don't have to carry anymore! Saved me a ton of money.
And time cuz I saved you from having to modify the grip on that Police Service Six you just got.
__________________
Any good revolver > Any good semi auto
TruthTellers is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 06:02 AM   #53
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
Really?!? Your just gonna leave us hanging?
Nothing much to say. I was the first officer on the scene after he shot a cop, I did not shoot they guy, I was afraid my 125's would not do the job thru plate glass and he would hurt hostages.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 06:06 AM   #54
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
Not according to this: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/process.html
I have no vendetta, I just found that much of their data did not match up to my data, or many other peoples data. The problem with using one barrel is that each barrel is unique and different. What you get from a 4" BBL I might get from a different 2 1/2" BBL. Different barrels are faster or slower. A colt Python for example has a bore that constricts near the end, good for accuracy, not great for velocity.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 06:10 AM   #55
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
According to Lucky Gunner, they got 1077 pfs out of the LCR with that load. That is only slightly faster than the standard pressure 9mm loads out of the 9mm lcr.
https://www.luckygunner.com/remingto...mc-100#geltest

Note that lucky gunner was getting this velocity from a Kimber K-6. My buddy was getting 1275 from a S&W 640 with a 1 7/8" BBL. As I stated before each gun can be quite different.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 08:39 AM   #56
74A95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
I have no vendetta, I just found that much of their data did not match up to my data, or many other peoples data. The problem with using one barrel is that each barrel is unique and different. What you get from a 4" BBL I might get from a different 2 1/2" BBL. Different barrels are faster or slower. A colt Python for example has a bore that constricts near the end, good for accuracy, not great for velocity.
Your data did not match theirs so you made up a lie about their data? Amazing!

You've destroyed your own credibility. No one is going to believe anything you say now since you've just proven you're a liar.
74A95 is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 10:06 AM   #57
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,071
Quote:
Your data did not match theirs so you made up a lie about their data? Amazing!
All you have to do is to look at Ballistics by the inch and see that they got exactly what Nanuk stated with various real life different guns. Look at the 6" python and you can see that it consistently got the same or lower velocity than the 4" Smith 686.
So different guns can produce different result, exactly what Nanuk was pointing out.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2018-10-24 at 8.07.26 AM.png (53.8 KB, 118 views)
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 10:13 AM   #58
74A95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
All you have to do is to look at Ballistics by the inch and see that they got exactly what Nanuk stated with various real life different guns. Look at the 6" python and you can see that it consistently got the same or lower velocity than the 4" Smith 686.
So different guns can produce different result, exactly what Nanuk was pointing out.
Sure, different barrels produce different results. We know that. But Nanuk fabricated a lie out of thin air.
74A95 is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 10:22 AM   #59
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,071
What was the lie? All I read was:
Quote:
Different barrels are faster or slower. A colt Python for example has a bore that constricts near the end, good for accuracy, not great for velocity.
And look at the chart at the PYTHON
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 10:41 AM   #60
74A95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
What was the lie? All I read was:


And look at the chart at the PYTHON
Read posts 3, 40, and 42. Especially 40.
74A95 is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 11:41 AM   #61
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,071
But I tend to agree with Nanuk. Everyone seems to use BBTI as the gospel, especially quoting the velocity losses with .38 and .357 in shorter barrels.
But what I found with my own chrono test is different that what they claim. It could be due to different guns giving differen velocities, but there is not as much loss as what they claim as with their cut barrels.

I guess you could call me a liar as well.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 02:31 PM   #62
2damnold4this
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,275
Quote:
Note that lucky gunner was getting this velocity from a Kimber K-6. My buddy was getting 1275 from a S&W 640 with a 1 7/8" BBL. As I stated before each gun can be quite different.

It also might be a different load. When you posted about a Remington 125 grain load, I thought 125 Golden Saber. It could be that you are referring to a completely different 125 grain load.
2damnold4this is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 02:47 PM   #63
74A95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
But I tend to agree with Nanuk. Everyone seems to use BBTI as the gospel, especially quoting the velocity losses with .38 and .357 in shorter barrels.
But what I found with my own chrono test is different that what they claim. It could be due to different guns giving differen velocities, but there is not as much loss as what they claim as with their cut barrels.

I guess you could call me a liar as well.
There's a reason for that. BBTI is the only methodologically sound procedure for addressing questions about the relationship between barrel length and velocity.

That is, use one barrel for all your velocity tests.

As soon as you start using different barrels you run the real risk of producing spurious results. The 6" Python and the 4" S&W in the table is the perfect example. Using only that data one would conclude that 4" barrels produce more velocity than 6" barrels.
74A95 is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 03:10 PM   #64
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,071
Quote:
addressing questions about the relationship between barrel length and velocity.
The relationship is only theoretical, since various guns will give different velocities.
One must chronograph their particular gun to know the true velocity.

Quote:
Using only that data one would conclude that 4" barrels produce more velocity than 6" barrels.
No, using that data, one concludes that using one barrel to determine results is not a basis for concluding that all guns would be affected the same way.

for example, the difference between my 1 7/8" LCR and my 3" LCRX was only 50 fps with two different BB loads. A different firearm might produce even different differences. So to assume that cutting a barrel an inch shorter will give equal results no matter what the firearm is false. It's just give an idea, not reality.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 05:59 PM   #65
Buckeye!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2008
Posts: 739
They are alot of variables in velocity with different handguns ....
Buckeye! is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 06:29 PM   #66
WheelGunMan
Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2017
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
Nothing much to say. I was the first officer on the scene after he shot a cop, I did not shoot they guy, I was afraid my 125's would not do the job thru plate glass and he would hurt hostages.
I'm sorry... wasn't trying to bust your balls...just don't understand what a Tongan is.
WheelGunMan is offline  
Old October 24, 2018, 11:51 PM   #67
TruthTellers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
Nothing much to say. I was the first officer on the scene after he shot a cop, I did not shoot they guy, I was afraid my 125's would not do the job thru plate glass and he would hurt hostages.
You do realize that very few non-LEO civilians carrying a snub revolver will be shooting through plate glass at Tongans holding hostages, yes?

If I was LEO in the 80's and a 4 to 6 inch barrel revolver was my duty gun, I'd carry 158's because I'm in situations where I'm much more likely to be required to shoot into cars and through barriers.
__________________
Any good revolver > Any good semi auto
TruthTellers is offline  
Old October 25, 2018, 06:14 AM   #68
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
Your data did not match theirs so you made up a lie about their data? Amazing!

You've destroyed your own credibility. No one is going to believe anything you say now since you've just proven you're a liar.
Lie? How about no. Pretty strong words. I have been mistaken in the past, it happens. Perhaps they changed their methodology since I viewed their site years ago.

Your cavalier attitude and the automatic use of insults speaks volumes about your character.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

Last edited by Nanuk; October 25, 2018 at 06:59 AM.
Nanuk is offline  
Old October 25, 2018, 06:19 AM   #69
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
I'm sorry... wasn't trying to bust your balls...just don't understand what a Tongan is.
They are from Tonga in the south Pacific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonga
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old October 25, 2018, 06:21 AM   #70
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 2,394
Quote:
You do realize that very few non-LEO civilians carrying a snub revolver will be shooting through plate glass at Tongans holding hostages, yes?
Dude...... I was referring to a situation over 30 years ago. Get over it.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old October 25, 2018, 05:32 PM   #71
WheelGunMan
Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2017
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
They are from Tonga in the south Pacific.
Thanks.....and thank you for your service in the military and as a police officer...(a thankless job as just illustrated here)
WheelGunMan is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12705 seconds with 10 queries