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Old September 24, 2018, 10:59 AM   #1
mc4
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Leaded barrel and no accuracy

Hi,

I own a Dan Wesson revolver, model 732, .32 Magnum, with a 6″ barrel and I tried to shoot some targets at the range with .32 wadcutter ammo, but without sucess.

From what I read, this DW revolver is very accurate and also has a very good trigger, but unfortunately the impacts are everywhere around the center of the target, and not a shooter problem

For what I see there is a lot of lead in the forcing cone and also on the rear face of the barrel, also notice lots of debris came from the gap between the cylinder and the barrel, maybe lead debris…

What I think is that the forcing cone was made to accept round nose lead bullets and not flat ones (wadcutter) so maybe I should open a little the forcing cone with a tool like the “11º Brownells Revolver Chamfering Kit”, what do you think?

Any experience with that?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lead 031.jpg (188.0 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg Lead 041.jpg (233.4 KB, 128 views)

Last edited by mc4; September 24, 2018 at 11:52 AM.
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Old September 24, 2018, 12:47 PM   #2
Chainsaw.
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Try different ammo before you do anything drastic like recutting/reaming.
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Old September 24, 2018, 02:42 PM   #3
gwpercle
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Important question ! Were you shooting new factory loads or handloads ?
In a lot of cases it's not the gun but the ammo that's causing the problem.

Is this gun used ?
After looking at photo's it appears to have not been cleaned for for some time .

Gary
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Old September 24, 2018, 03:39 PM   #4
Drm50
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This happened once to me with a m25-5 S&W. I bought gun NIB and 1st time at
range fired 2 boxes of old Rem ammo. The gun shot excellent. Didn't bother to adjust the sight because I was going to load for it. Cleaned pistol good as new, only 100rds had been fired. Bought couple boxes of Speer lead bullets, loaded up a hundred target loads. 750fps with Unique. Next trip to range gun was spot on with first 6, second 6 not so good, third 6 terrible and 1st thought was loose sights. It wasn't, 18 rnds of those Speer bullets had clogged forcing cone and filled the bore to the point it looked like foil in the grooves. Moral of the story it
was the bullets, not the gun.
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Old September 24, 2018, 04:03 PM   #5
mc4
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Hi, thanks for your inputs.
I used factory ammo, Fiocchi and Lapua, and the results were the same, holes everywhere in the target, some shots did not show...
I made the photos after maybe 100 shots and as we can see the forcing cone is heavily leaded. After the photos I cleaned the barrel and shot a box of Lapua 32 WC and noticed lot of debries coming from the gap between cylinder and barrel, and also noticed lots of lead on the top of the rear side of the barrel, both things are consistent with the wadcutter bullets do not enter well in the forcing cone...
Don't you agree with me?
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Old September 24, 2018, 04:04 PM   #6
LE-28
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Quote:
Is this gun used ?
After looking at photo's it appears to have not been cleaned for for some time
I was wondering the same thing. Was some of that already in there before you tested your loads.

I would have to clean that all out of there and try it again to be sure before making assumptions. If the bullets are bevel based and to hard for the velocity they are running, than that would cause it like the other posters have said.

Reaming would be a last resort and you don't know if it would help.

Did you check the throats in the chambers to see if they are undersized?

They should be around .358.
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Old September 24, 2018, 04:12 PM   #7
Salmoneye
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Maybe it's me, But I don't see anything "heavily leaded" in those pics...

I have seen barrels where the first few inches of rifling is almost invisible due to lead...

I have seen barrels where you can take strips of lead out of the rifling with a dental pick...

ADDING:

OK...After looking hard at the pics again, it appears your forcing cone is indeed 'heavily leaded'...I was concentrating on the lands and grooves before...

Have you cleaned that encrusted lead down to bare metal since you acquired the gun?
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Old September 24, 2018, 04:44 PM   #8
VTRich
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Here is a good link on leading issues, and common causes based on where the leading is occuring

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm
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Old September 24, 2018, 06:09 PM   #9
mehavey
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Quote:
Maybe it's me, But I don't see anything "heavily leaded" in those pics...
Neither do I.
Looks entirely normal.

Quote:
.32 [H&R?] Magnum, with a 6″ barrel ...with .32 wadcutter ammo
What/whose wadcutter ammunition (cartridge) were you using ?

Last edited by mehavey; September 24, 2018 at 06:15 PM.
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Old September 24, 2018, 10:27 PM   #10
Dufus
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It could be that the cylinder locks out of alignment with the barrel.

You should be able to check that with a good bore light. I don't think a bore scope would help with that.

Also, the cylinder throats might be too large for that particular bullet.
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Old September 25, 2018, 06:33 AM   #11
mc4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LE-28 View Post
I was wondering the same thing. Was some of that already in there before you tested your loads.

I would have to clean that all out of there and try it again to be sure before making assumptions.

If the bullets are bevel based and to hard for the velocity they are running, than that would cause it like the other posters have said.

Reaming would be a last resort and you don't know if it would help.

Did you check the throats in the chambers to see if they are undersized?

They should be around .358.
The barrel has maybe 100 shots with Fiochhi 32 WC before I made the photos.

I did clean the forcing cone after that and shoot a box of Lapua, not the same leading in the forcing cone as before, but lots of debris (spit lead) and also lots of lead on the the top of the barrel (no photo).

I think the first Fiocchi ammo have Bevel base and the Lapua have plain base
(not sure) and in the Fiocchi website I read 200m/s and the Lapua seems to be 240m/s...

I did measure the throats of the cylinder with a digital micrometer and got 0.310"... in the Lapua website they say that the diam. of their 32 wc bullet is .314
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Old September 25, 2018, 10:50 AM   #12
mc4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
What/whose wadcutter ammunition (cartridge) were you using ?
My first 100 or 150 shots were Fiocchi .32" Wadcutter, then cleaned the forcing cone and shot with Lapua .32 Wadcutter.

It seems that the Lapua do not make the same leading of the forcing cone, maybe because I shot fewer shots or maybe because it seems that they are plain base bullets instead bevel base as Fiocchi seems to be... (not sure).

Anyway, with this Lapua 32 WC I felt more debris coming from the gap cylinder/barrel and the top of the barrel (not the cone) became heavily leaded (no photos).

It could be consistent with a misalignment between cylinder/barrel... ???
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Old September 25, 2018, 10:55 AM   #13
mc4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
It could be that the cylinder locks out of alignment with the barrel.

You should be able to check that with a good bore light. I don't think a bore scope would help with that.

Also, the cylinder throats might be too large for that particular bullet.
I thought that too, but don't have a way to verify that... I have a bore light but it is too big to stay inside the chambers

I did measure the cylinder throats with a digital micrometer and get 0.310, not sure the diam. of the bullets, but the Lapua website states .314 ??? If this is true, maybe the throats are too small, don't you think?
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Old September 25, 2018, 11:00 AM   #14
mc4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmoneye View Post

Have you cleaned that encrusted lead down to bare metal since you acquired the gun?
I shot very few shots with this barrel, maybe a total of 5 boxes, and every time I cleaned the barrel after the range. Never saw that leading until now, maybe it was there before, maybe not.

Right now I cleaned it but the accuracy did not improve
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Old September 25, 2018, 11:01 AM   #15
mc4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRich View Post
Here is a good link on leading issues, and common causes based on where the leading is occuring

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm
Thanks
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Old September 25, 2018, 11:51 AM   #16
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"...32 wad cutter ammo..." What ammo? .32 Mag with WC's or .32 S&W Long?
Fiocchi .32 and Lapua .32 are brands and calibres.
.314" is normal for a cast .32 S&W Long bullet. Is for an H&R Mag cast bullet too.
"...made to accept round nose lead bullets..." Nope. DW would have no idea what ammo would be used. Most factory H&R Mag ammo has an HP bullet anyway.
Best thing for you to do is reload the Magnum cases to Long velocities.
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Old September 25, 2018, 12:13 PM   #17
mc4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...32 wad cutter ammo..." What ammo? .32 Mag with WC's or .32 S&W Long?
Fiocchi .32 and Lapua .32 are brands and calibres.
.314" is normal for a cast .32 S&W Long bullet. Is for an H&R Mag cast bullet too.
"...made to accept round nose lead bullets..." Nope. DW would have no idea what ammo would be used. Most factory H&R Mag ammo has an HP bullet anyway.
Best thing for you to do is reload the Magnum cases to Long velocities.
Sorry, did not realize that there are more than one type of .32 wadcutter... it is .32 S&W Long wadcutter, not magnum wadcutter.
Anyway I do not reload my ammo, only buy commercial ones and it is difficult to get them, usually I shoot with Fiocchi
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Old September 25, 2018, 02:51 PM   #18
AzShooter
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Get yourself a Lewis Lead Remover. Brownell's has them. You will be able to clean your forcing cone and your barrel with little effort and can keep doing it as time goes by. The kit is the cheap way to go and you don't need to buy the forcing cone cutter.
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Old September 25, 2018, 06:23 PM   #19
mehavey
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This then, is your problem . . . from a revolver cylinder/throat/length issue:

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Old September 26, 2018, 09:06 AM   #20
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HERE is a link to an article written by a highly regarded retired gunsmith from the Ruger Forum that discusses lead bullets and accuracy from modern firearms. I read it a while back and the problem you're having brought it to mind. Might be worth your while to read it.
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Old September 26, 2018, 09:29 AM   #21
mc4
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Guys, after reading your answers and viewing some videos, I came to the conclusion that I have a very bad and problematic Dan Wesson 732 revolver and maybe without repair or with a difficult one

In the end I have two problems:

Timing problem (slow) and misalignment cylinder/barrel problem...

Now I see why I have a lot of lead debris coming from the gap cylinder/barrel and lot of lead on the top of the barrel (no photo) and in the forcing cone. When I push the hammer back, the barrel rotates but sometimes do not engage in the cylinder stop, so I shot many rounds with the cylinder a little to the left of the barrel, where the lead accumulates...

On the other hand even with the cylinder docked in the cylinder stop - I do not have a light to put inside the chambers - if I introduce a brass rod inside the barrel it touches the left side (viewing from front)of the cylinder, in all the chambers, what do not happen on the top, right and bottom of the barrel...

So, I have a slow timing revolver and a misalignment cylinder/barrel

About the misalignment I don't think I can do anything unless open a little the forcing cone, correct?

Now, regarding the timing, I notice that the hand has a recess near the tip, where it touches the ratchet in the cylinder, I don't know if that recess is from factory or is wear - the revolver is like new, only a total of maybe 400 or 500 shots - but I think that is the problem, as it turns when it reaches the middle of the ratchet it doesn't touch it anymore so the movement is not enough to reach the cylinder stop...

Must I buy a new hand? Can I adjust mine?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Mike
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cylinder extractor 21.pdf (122.7 KB, 38 views)
File Type: pdf Hand 011.pdf (168.3 KB, 23 views)
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Old September 26, 2018, 11:38 AM   #22
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I think that you should not alter anything on your revolver, like reaming the forcing cone, etc. Instead, you should contact Dan Wesson and ask them how they want to handle this. They made the gun and they may want to fix it for free if you haven't altered it. They might not be as helpful if you have made your own alterations.
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Old September 26, 2018, 07:32 PM   #23
mc4
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Originally Posted by Pathfinder45 View Post
I think that you should not alter anything on your revolver, like reaming the forcing cone, etc. Instead, you should contact Dan Wesson and ask them how they want to handle this. They made the gun and they may want to fix it for free if you haven't altered it. They might not be as helpful if you have made your own alterations.
Yes, I understand your point, the problem is that I live in Portugal, very far from USA, and bought the revolver maybe in 1996, besides I only shot a few boxes with it...
It seems to be a problem, don't you agree?
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Old September 26, 2018, 11:55 PM   #24
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You should go to: danwessonforum.com Hopefully someone there can help you. It is the most knowledgeable forum for the Dan Wesson revolvers on the internet I believe. I would think you could find a gunsmith in your area that can fix the timing issue.

I am wondering if you have made sure the barrel is tight. If your barrel is even a little loose the problems you describe can happen. Also adjust the B/C gap to .006 or maybe a little less. I hope you have the barrel wrench that comes with the gun when new but if not EWK arms has them. Good luck
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Old September 27, 2018, 09:51 AM   #25
mc4
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Hi again,

I discovered something else, responsible for the slow timing – there is a huge gap between the left side cover frame and the mainframe, exactly where the hand moves up and down and that gap moves away the hand from the cylinder (2), causing the slow timing…
If we see, the bottom part of the side cover (1) is tight but the upper part (3)is very far away.

In the movie bellow we can see the lateral movement of the hand

https://vimeo.com/user89990635/revie...302/0373cc86ed

I have the two Allen screws very tight, I think that I even used too much force as I slightly damage the head of the screws, so can´t see what to do more to reduce the gap.

I find very difficult to fit in the left side frame, it seems to be bigger than the free space, maybe I need to sand a little the top part which fits near the rear sight …

Any thoughts?
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File Type: jpg Hand gap 23 legend.jpg (203.7 KB, 19 views)
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